Topic: Presidential Campaign 2008
John McCain Taunts Ron Paul About Fox Debate Exclusion Is John McCain descending into madness? Why New Hampshire voters should be concerned.by Grizzle Griz
(centrist)
Sunday, January 6, 2008
In the ABC New Hampshire debate, John McCain jeered at Paul, "We’re going to miss you tomorrow night, Ron". McCain was probably referring the upcoming Fox News Roundtable (read: debate) from which Congressman Ron Paul has been excluded despite that he is polling higher than many of its invitees (14% in New Hampshire). The New Hampshire GOP withdrew from the Fox event in protest, but McCain seems perfectly pleased with Fox’s decision, enough so to mock Ron Paul on national television anyway.
This raises an important question: How can John McCain be so smug and be the frontrunner in New Hampshire? McCain certainly has name recognition and he was the Granite State’s pick for the nomination in 2000. He has also been endorsed by a major New Hampshire newspaper, but I suspect there is another subtlety that pollsters and pundits are missing.
During the CNN coverage of the Iowa Caucuses, I listened to a layman explain his vote for John McCain. "I’m one of those people who want to get out of Iraq immediately", he said. "I think John McCain is the most credible person to do it…like how it took Nixon to go to China". It occurred to me that perhaps the GOP base does not want to stay in Iraq after all; they just think McCain is most likely to get us out.
They would be disastrously wrong. In this video, a belligerent McCain insists that the U.S. should maintain a presence in Iraq for the next 100 years. While he hopefully meant this in an emissary capacity, voters should note that the "embassy" looks a lot like a military base and it is bigger than Vatican City. Worse, the U.S. presence cannot switch to diplomatic status until military goals are realized and we cannot even define what those are anymore.
As a former McCain apologist, I am especially troubled with his new foreign policy and I have searched for reasons for his change. A haunting answer occurred to me during the CNN/Youtube debacle. There, McCain responded to Ron Paul’s criticism of the Viet Nam War of all things by defiantly stating, "we never lost a battle in Viet Nam, it was American public opinion forced us to loose that conflict". Yikes. I didn’t know the virtues of the Viet Nam War were still debatable. This statement is creepy on several levels. First, it misunderstands the nature of guerilla warfare where the point is not to win open, protracted battles, but to wear the enemy down until fighting is no longer cost-effective for him. Have the pro-war Republicans become so proud that they have turned us into the redcoats in the American Revolution? Would McCain make us continue eating bullets until he decides to learn the dynamics of insurgencies? CIA reports say "yes".
Second, the statement gives me pause about McCain’s motivations. McCain always struck me as a reasonable person, but he changed in the last eights years. Could it be that the Iraq War triggered some unsatisfied convictions about the results of Viet Nam? Are we in this war because McCain cannot bear to admit defeat a second time? Is his sacrifice in Viet Nam going to be a liability?
The sad thing is, McCain admits that he failed the Republican cause. In the same debate, he admitted, "We went to Washington to change Washington, but it changed us." Ron Paul distinguished himself by saying "I don’t think that applies to me." Indeed, it does not apply to Paul, who has held to the same core theory of governance that once earned Republican Party widespread respect. He has held to it in spite of hysteria and threats of internal ostracization. You should not get second chances in politics, especially when the stakes are this high. If McCain blew it between 2000 and 2008, then Republicans should look for a candidate who is impervious to groupthink and maintains the libertarian-conservative cause even when it is inconvenient. Since we actually have one running this time, this Republican will be voting for Ron Paul.
The views expressed in this
article are those of Grizzle Griz only and do not represent
the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates. Grizzle Griz is
solely responsible for the contents of this article and is not an
employee or otherwise affiliated with Nolan Chart, LLC in his/her role as a columnist.
I don't see how Ron Paul could be part of the problem. He consistently votes against spending and higher taxes, and has stayed true to his values. He is known for service to his constituents. I wish my own state had such a champion of the people.
It is not time it is principle. There are no current candidates that will be able to withstand the power of the special interest currents that assail a president. Clinton even admitted that to make it to that level, someone else has already made all the decisions. Paul will not make it to that level playing their game.
We the People must support him, so he can institute real change. No other candidate has the moral compass that Paul has. It sounds silly and trite, but it is true. We will not get this chance again. The next stop is European mediocrity. We are almost there! When we have finally spent all our future wealth - all the wealth our country produced in the late 19th and early 20th century, our military power will fade. Our wealth will be redistributed among the rest of the world. Without Paul, this socialist goal is inevitable.
Posted By: Alex Crawford
Date: 2008-01-06 20:49:44
Do some research on John McCain's participation in the cover-up of what happened to the USS Liberty. Just like Colin Powel was the young officer (Major at the time) who covered up Mei Lai. John Mccain was a young Navy officer in intelligence and he helped sweep the attack on the Liberty under the rug.
Posted By: Uomo Del Ghiaccio
Date: 2008-01-06 20:56:52
I agree that McCain was a hero and a good man, but I feel that he lacks the temperment that is required of a President. Even though Ron Paul is an Isolationist, and I really don't plan on voting for him, I feel that he should have been included in the FOX Round Table Debate. I feel that McCain is in bed with Huckabee whom I personally feel is a Religious Bigot. His taunting is just another illustration and confirmation of my gut feeling of McCain. This being said, if McCain is the last one standing I would hold my nose and pull the lever for him. Huckabee is a totally different matter. I will never pull the lever for Huckabee even if he is on the ticket as VP for someone that I really like and support. I feel so strongly about my repulsion of Huckabee that I would allow Hillary Clinton become president by casting my single vote for a write in or third party.
Paul advocates a return to principles that New Hampshire people tend to favor. Why should MCcain deserve a second chance to lose in South Carolina? Why should Ron Paul have been excluded, when he maybe the only republican in the race? Makes no sense to laugh at the party's founding priniciples either, which all of the critters did. I can only imagine a New Hampshire that picks Paul and watch out for the total marginalization of that choice by especially FOX. They will assail NH day and night, all I can say maybe that please people in NH don't forget Paul and don't forget the Brown Tax Protestors either, you can change national politics as usual with your common sense.
Nationbuilder and warmonger break the country by promoting wars and making your friends rich, or isolationist ( as you say) bring them all home, guard the borders and put them to work so we no longer have to finance the wars and otyher nations. How many of you knew that each Israeli gets aroung $15,000 a year from the USA (from you)? And they are not a third world country. Do you get that from your own government? Wake up! Take this country back. The five are all the same, only Paul is different and thats what we need!
Nice article. I too have wondered how people if they actually hear what McCain is saying can still support him. The "stay in Iraq a 100 years comment," is just the last straw. McCain-Fiengold, The Gang of 14, and now this, the guy isn't a maverick, he's off the reservation and can't be trusted to govern responsibly.
I think you raise an important point about the Republican base thinking he is the best person to get us out of Iraq of all the possible choices. I think the reason they feel this way is due to the years of being pummled with the theory of "wasting" your vote if you don't go with the candidate selected by the party. This I think is what we are up against, along with a certain degree of apathy i.e. McCain, that sounds familiar, I guess I'll vote for him.
First, this is a well thought out article and articulates the concerns a John McCain Presidency brings with it. He gets away with a lot of his warmongering ways due to his service as a POW. I will always respect his sacrafice but he will never stop warring, never. People trust him yet he is perhaps one of the worst to trust with foreign policy, he and Giuliani. Giuliani more due to his inner connections with the profits and goals surrounding the corporatism gripping us. McCain because he is angry and still bent by the trauma of being a POW, IMHO.Â
Second, your DIGG link is going right back to this page. Your article needs to be sent to DIGG and once the link is corrected I will DIGG it and shout it out. Thank you for a well presented insight into John McCain!Â
Uomo: "Even though Ron Paul is an Isolationist..." Ron Paul repeatedly states that we should interact, communicate and trade with All nations. But, as the Founding Fathers warned, we should not entangle ourselves in other countries' internal politics. Uomo, please actually listen to Ron Paul's talks and speeches before repeating false soundbytes.
Re McCain - that he could turn around and support Bush after Bush smeared and slandered his family, his child in 2004, demonstrates what a corrupt, unprincipled man he is (they both are). And the photo of him hugging Bush like some cowering toady is beyond the pale. If he loves war so much, he can grab his rifle and go; since he wants America to continue the illegal occupation of Iraq for 100 years, he can spend the remainder of his days there.
Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate of either party with the intellect, intention and courage to stop America from meddling in countries where we are not wanted or welcomed. Support all our troops - bring them all home, Now!
McCain should just get it over with and switch to the Democrat party. He served his country and got captured. So what? That doesn't make him an expert on foreign matters.
Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is to admit your own ignorance. Trading and communicating with other countries is NOT being isolationist. To assume that cancelling foreign aid by the trillions is being an isolationist is just outright ignorance.
Posted By: W Gary Johnson
Date: 2008-01-07 07:48:18
I have to confess, I have never understood the appeal of John McCain. The first time I ever heard of him was when he got caught taking money from a crooked S&L promoter. From that he segued into being the poster boy for "campaign finance" reform - a naked assault on the First Amendment that has only served to empower the media at the expense of political parties. (See Fox v. NH GOP) In debate after debate, he reveals himself to be the most petty, mean-spirited politician since Richard Nixon. But thanks to "campaign finance reform" McCain remains the darling of the media. Go figure!
John McCain, loyalty to his country? What about loyalty to his first wife? He was a POW, great, that makes him a genius on foreign policy? I don't think so. He never met an illegal immigrant he didn't want to hug. The only good thing McCain stands for is his opposition to torture, for that I commend him.
McCain has never gotten over the Vietnam era...we've been in Korea for over 50 years...How much will a 100 year occupation in Iraq cost? Or aren't NEO-CONS allowed to talk about our excellent adventure over seas with 700 bases in
130 different countries? We spend more to Police the World
than the rest of the world combined!
We also have 25% of the worlds prisoners here in our country, disproportionately people of color. Nobody talks about that though. Jeez if we don't use people of color as cannon fodder to die in Corporate wars...we incarcerate them...nice.
If we support "democracy" please explain our Puppet governments... the present ones in Iraq and Afghanistan now. What about our support of a dictator in Pakistan given a $10 billion wad to boot to help us catch Osama? What about our flip flop of support for Sadaam from the 1980's when Rumsfeld was his buddy to the time we declared Sadaam enemy number one after we didn't need him anymore? What about our coziness with Bush family friends in Saudi Arabia...you know the country that whips foreign school teachers and brutalizes their women?
GW Bush ran on a "humble foreign policy"....he lied.
McCain will continue the Bush lie.
Oil.... mmmm good to the last drop!
GOOGLE RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008
I left a little message for the HERO MCCAIN to jeer about Funny how MSM forgets. We are a very forgiving people especialy about Vietnam POW's. IMO Senator McCain is very dangerious for not speaking up on the mortgage banking crisis today. He used up his two strikes on the Keating five curruption issues costing 1.4 trillion in the S&L crisis. People seem to forget that only Paul, McCain and Hunter served. I am a true republican and elephants don't forget....(posted a video McCain Bush Pwned Ron Paul) McCain is a dangerious man in how he thinks. I really don't understand it after his tourture comments.
I think the most important thing about that statement was Ron Paul's response to it. "I think we'll be better off!" That was honestly my favorite part of the debate. Seriously, if Ron were to be in the Fox News roundtable, it would have just been interuption after interuption, and attack after attack.
The Fox debate was a travesty. If any of the other so-called Republican candidates had any honor or integrity, they would have boycotted the Fox debate. It's perfect that they didn't, because it serves to illustrate their craven lack of character.
McCain taunting Ron Paul is nasty, childish, petty and reveals a character flaw (Google 'John McCain anger management' to see why we DO NOT WANT John McCain in charge of nuclear launch authority). And then there's the odious McCain-Feingold act. McCain is not Presidential material, IMHO.
freedomjoyadventure.blogspot.com
I salute McCain for his service to his country but I would never vote for this man to represent me as an American. He definately has an itchy trigger finger. That scares me. I am a proud Ron Paul supporter, and I love reading intelligent responses, like what I am seeing here, regarding his positions. It reallly grinds my gears when people say he, Ron Paul, is a nut case or a cook. He makes more sense to me that any candidate running. I am 36 and was never involved in politics before I heard Ron's message of freedom, liberty, a constitutional government, protecting our own people instead of everyone eles's people and interests, a non-intervention foriegn policy and sound money. He is a true patriot. I also realize that times are different now than when to constitution was written, nonetheless, if you read it, most of the resolutions we need are right there. One other quick point; Doesnt every elected political leader, armed forces recruit and person of political interest swear an oathe the uphold the constitution? wth people?
I wonder if the 'die hard Republicans' understand that McCain would be blown out in an election against ANY of the Democratic frontrunners? The simple fact of the matter is no matter what you think of him or his ideas, Ron Paul is the only Republican running this time out who can beat the Democrats!
I will guarantee you will never look at things the same. You will know we are not free, you will see why we are not free, you will come to loathe those who trick others into binding us to a system of their devising for their own ends.
If you were the only other person to discover this philosophy, and you believed in it enough to introduce it to just one more American, then I am satisfied that my donations in time and money to this skirmish for liberty, were not made in vain.
Overall strategy (as Barry Goldwater Jr expressed well):
Position the other Republican candidates as very right wing war mongers, Ron Paul movement as MODERATE (in the middle) and CONSERVATIVE (and classic liberal) and the Democrats as LEFT to far Left, but open way for them to be persuaded (e.g. not too rigorous). Main message is positive: LIBERTY/FREEDOMÂ
Excellent report and insight in your article. A few ideas:
 use freemindstv and others to get message out  (they already have something).Â
 Major issues, which set Ron Paul apart should be: IRAQ WAR and ECONOMY, apart from immigration, health care etc.Â
 For anti-war message, use/add "No end in sight" new movie on Iraq war by Charles Ferguson
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zDBvEzE2QY  and other videos
Also Rory Stewart UK Â soldier that was a govornor of an Iraqi province (thus for war), but now aginst it and for an immediate pull-out. He is very knowledgeable about the situation, know languages and appeared on BBC hard talk as well as a recent discussion on future Iraq strategy and other programs and has written a book as well:
"The problems in Iraq are now so deep, complex, and intractable that they cannot be solved by surges or new tactics. They can only be solved by Iraqi political leadership and Iraqi political processes. We can provide diplomatic and economic support. We can continue to protect ourselves against terrorist attacks on our home soil through intelligence and special forces operations in Iraq. But we cannot win through an indefinite blanket occupation because we lack the will, the resources, the legitimacy, and also the consent necessary to play such a role. My instinct is that Iraqis can overcome their problems and create a functioning nation. But even if I'm wrong, I believe that what good we can do we have done. We should leave now."
 For Michigan, South Carolina and beyond: identify the specific target groups: in Michigan: Reformed Churches (leaders vs Iraq invasion) and get "christian vote" (I am a Reformed Christian myself) away from Huckabee based on immoral Iraq war (difference with all other R candidates) and Paul's credentials for social and religious conservative values: pro-life, prayers as school allowed, family  etc. In SOuth Carolina: go for Conservatives (Christians etc.), military personnel. Stress military contributions, help for war veterans etc.
Work ACTIVELY to get endorsements from homeschooling groups in each specific state! This is one of the reasons  Huckabee could win in IA.
Look for political and other endorsements also. It would be good if we could get endorsement from Viquerie etc. (if Giuliani implodes, Pat Robertson and others may endorse Paul as well?).Â
Bob C.
Using the phrase democracy is one thing that confuses people. We in fact are a REPUBLIC and not a democracy.
REPUBLICans supposed want a REPBULIC or a representative government made up of individual members from each state.
a DEMOCRA(T)cy is nothing but mob rule.
Once people UNDERSTAND this they cannot/should not vote for a DEMOCRAT.
Democracy cares nothing for the individual and there LIBERTY only the will of the MASSES.
4 the REPUBLIC
RP2008
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