The Top Five demands from the OWS Movement should ring a familiar tune to all activists. by Bill Gee
(centrist)
Tuesday, October 11, 2011
The Occupy Wall Street Movement has now spread like wildfire to almost every major city in the United States with a few cells springing up in Australia, Germany, Canada, and other countries as well. This essentially leaderless movement has been accused of having a disjointed agenda and FOX News has done their best to portray them as naïve, dirty, pot-smoking hippies and Socialist/Communist sympathizers.
So what’s on their Official List of Demands? The truth is, the demands of the occupiers is still a work in progress. In true democratic fashion, the organizers have permitted users on their website to create a demand, and then members and sympathizers vote on it. The website currently lists 27 Official Demands where you can vote on which ones are most important to you.
The Top Five Demands
For the purpose of this article, I will list the current “top five” demands of the Wall Street Occupiers. The reason why I have decided to concentrate on the demands that have received the most votes is because if we are to find consensus with the protestors, it is important that we concentrate on those demands where we can all agree on.
Interestingly, #5 & #1 are basically the same demand, so I will mention those last.
#4: Re-Investigate the Attacks on 9/11/2001
Without a doubt, the attack on this country a decade ago has redefined our country’s character since that day. After millions of dollars spent and two wars fought, there remains many unanswered questions as to what led up to the attacks and what the government could have done to prevent it. There is also issues of possible war crimes by the Bush/Cheney Administration, Domestic Spying, Racial Profiling, and a general trampling of the Bill of Rights all in the name of National Security that needs to be fully reconciled if we are ever to heal and move on.
#3: End the War on Drugs
Many of my Libertarian colleagues will agree that the so-called War on Drugs has done more damage than any other domestic issue outside of Prohibition. It has generated a multi-billion dollar illegal gun trade, it has given rise to terrorism and lawlessness on the US/Mexico border, and it has incarcerated hundreds of thousands of otherwise harmless individuals and created a horrible underclass in this country.
#2: Repeal the Patriot Act
During times of crisis, Congress has repeatedly overreacted when it has come to controlling the behavior of its citizens, which flies in the face of the Bill of Rights, and every time, they have been forced to admit that what they did was wrong and illegal. The Patriot Act is no exception. The Law tramples the 1st, 4th, and 6th Amendments to the Constitution all in the name of Liberty and Security when it denied both.
#1 & #5: To End Corporate Personhood, and to Reverse the Effects of the Citizens United Decision.
Both of these items go hand-in-hand as they address the major thing that unties every Occupy Movement throughout the world. For decades we have seen corporate interests supersede the interests for the rest of us. We have seen how corporate money wins or loses elections. Up until the Supreme Court Ruling, we were at least under the illusion that people were more important than our Corporate Masters, but the Citizens United decision removed all doubt.
Ignore the Blah-Blah
No doubt, someone reading this column will go to the Demands website and point out only the most outlandish demands on the list as proof-positive that the movement is nothing more than a bunch of Liberal Hippies with no clear agenda for America beyond some Socialist/Communist vision.
If you do that, you will be missing the point.
The reason why you would be missing the point is because of the interconnectedness of the remaining demands to the top five. What would happen if we ratified a Constitutional Amendment that ended Corporate Personhood, and removed Corporate money from politics? With less money going to support the Military Industrial Complex, Pork Barrel Projects, No-Bid-Contracts, and Political Kick-Backs, would we have more resources to fund Universal Health Care, College Education, and a Fair Judicial and Regulatory system? Possibly. We won’t know until we get there.
One thing we do know with absolute certainty is that working WITH the system has failed for the people in this country, because the system has been rigged to favor those with the most money, power and influence. We also know that this system is unsustainable in the long run.
In a Republic of the People, it is the People where the ultimate power should rest. If 1% of the people control the other 99%, what we have is an Aristocracy where the ruling class has the right to do whatever they want, and the rest of us have no rights at all.
That’s what has to change, and that’s why this movement continues to gain strength.
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Posted By: Bentree
Date: October 11, 2011 08:10:42 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/apr/15/20040415-094758-5267r/
Jamie Gorelick, how about we start there, cover up you bet, how did the official Gorelick end up on a commision to investigate herself? She is the attorney that set up up the firewalls between agency's so that they would not be able communicate with each other while Slick Willy was being investigated. They could not contain it to just Willie's information so there was no sharing at all. Of course that included investigations that turned up information on the terrorist and without sharzee's it was disjointed until after the attacks. As for war crimes and domestic spying, be specific. Racial profiling, political correctness be damn, there damn well should be. Americans, trampled in the Bill-o-Rights stampede? Who? When? Where? Might you be one of those fools that believes that steel does not deform and lose all tensile strength when subjected to intense heat?
The War on drugs is in itself a crime, I say give it away too any adult that wants it. Criminalize those acts while on drugs the same as alcohol. The only proviso is that you will have to give up all public assistance including SS., medicare, etc, etc. We would find out who the real libertarians are. Take responsibility for youselves. For this Darwinian solution, count me in.
Repeal the Patriot act, go for it. Pierce the corporate veil, absolutely.
Providing for the common defense more efficiently, I'm for it.
Provide universal healthcare? Absolutely friggin not, I choose no and I believe that I have that right, it is my money not yours, period. College education, pay for your own and your children's, it was government involvement that drove the cost up in the first place. See the great Society and undertand what happens when people start spending other peoples money. If you don't get it and you can't accomplish your goals without stealing from me, then your goals are unconstitutional, "period".
"In a Republic of the People, it is the People where the ultimate power should rest". In a republic it is the rights of the law abiding individual that must be protected. The mob rules in a democracy and if the mob rules then neither your rights , your stuff, or your safety means a tinkers damn.
All you seem to care about is your hatred of corporations, fine by me, then you have a focus, focus on it but leave my liberty, property rights and stuff alone.
"A fair Judicial and Regulatory system". What does fair mean, it sure as hell means something different to you than it does to me and thats the rub," fair" is subjective. If you want to steal from me, it may seems eminently fair to you but I just might have a problem with it. Fair is used by the left as a justification to take what "they feel is justified, and at the very least "fair" is an arbitrary standard of human interaction. Beware, I reserve the right of self defense both personally and in regards to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Just because these miscreants have adopted a few libertarian sounding ideas does not mean that is where their hearts are. They are following marxist inspired black hearted progressives and where this is leading will not be happy times for you or your's, me or mine, you had better wake up, but of course you won't and that is that.
Again I support your right of descent, you do not have the right to accomplish your goals by unconstitutional means, at least without a fight.
Posted By: Bill Gee
Date: October 12, 2011 07:38:42 AM
The point here is not to get bogged down in the specifics. If this movement decides to pursue a legislative agenda of specific proposals championed by the Democratic Party, the movement itself is doomed to failure. The truth is that none of their demands have any chance of becoming law so that's why I try not to dwell on them.
The most encouraging thing I've seen from this movement - and the primary reason why I support it so strongly - is the Corporate Personhood and Corporate Money in Politics issue, and that can only be solved through a Constitutional Amendment, and the only way that Amendment will ever get written is through an Article V Convention.
Once all that's done, then we'll be working under a new paradigm of the State, which is why I'm not so quick to dismiss anything out of hand.
You consider most of the Liberal/Progressive agenda to be non-starters and that's fine with me because it's your right to disagree and to defend that right by any means necessary. I imagine that view was formed over a lifetime of seeing Progressive promises that were broken due to the government's need to provide kickbacks and compromises to corporate interests that only provided less than half of what was promised at a price that was five-times more expensive than they said it would be.
All I ask is that you consider what the world would be like under this new paradigm and consider whether or not you think it'll change anything, including your views on Progressivism in general. Things might be just the same, or they might be different. We won't know for sure until we get there.
If protestors continue to face resistance from Police as their numbers grow, they should be worried. I sincerely hope that the protestors can keep this peaceful, but unless Wall Street executives start making peace gestures to the protestors, they have every reason to be concerned.
There was another article on Bloomberg that stated that CitiGroup's CEO said he'd be "happy" to meet with OWS protestors, but the article was pulled before I had a chance to provide you a link to it.
In other news, an Occupy Movement will be starting in London on Saturday.
Posted By: Bentree
Date: October 12, 2011 05:23:21 PM
Details
The devil is in the details. You act as if there are some rules here when the reality is he who wins rules. Do you really think the instigators are interested in corporations, private or corporate ownership of the means of product dose not exist in a marxist state. These people are only paying lip service to chuckle heads. Do you honestly believe that the Russian, Chinese, Cuban, to name a few, people really understood what was to befall them? Were they naive or just plan stupid? This is not a game being played out on play station. These people have the support of the most powerful people on the planet. First of all POTUS, who is in fact a marxist and his merry men , marxists all.
Progressives have fulfilled every expectation I have ever had for them. Since you are a product of a left wing progressive education it is understandable that you will accept socialism much more readily than a few of us that are a little older. So you will have to excuse me for being a little reticent about the new state paradigm.
The largest interest group in this country are the entitled, you know the 50% that pay no taxes. Many trillions of dollars have gone supposedly to ease their pain, to no avail. Progressive's have only managed to destroy the American family, the primary education system, the energy and manufacturing sectors. "short list" They include both democrats and republicans. The welfare, largesse state is sucking the life blood out of this country. Yes ,wars are expensive, but Exxon alone has collected enough in taxes over the last 25 Yrs. to pay for most of that. So where has most of this money gone, we are talking trillion upon trillions of dollars. It has gone to buy votes with largesse paid to anyone and everyone. That is the problem in this country, a dysfunctional Washington ruthlessly addicted to money and power and what happens when you get between an addict and his fix.
As for corporations, they are tax collectors for the welfare state that employ millions of tax paying citizens. A first year economics class student in middle school can understand that and would, if not for progressives running our educational system. My eleven year old granddaughters math project was to read about a mathmetician, not learn his solutions to math problems but to learn about him. It is a math class not a math history class. I ask her how much time is being spent learning about the founders of this country? When was the last time she was assigned an American history project? Thats right, nile.
Progressives are a pox on this nation and the world, this is not a game, just asked the hundreds of millions of dead all over the world, victims of marxism. They are already talking about beheading the rich and you seem to think they are kidding. You support them don't you? These are dark hearted marxist progressives, They may temporarily go away, but they will be back, believe it.
Posted By: Bill Gee
Date: October 13, 2011 08:25:46 AM
I suppose as a "product of the Progressive educational system", I'm having trouble envisioning the world in which all programs that you would consider "Progressive" abolished.
It's also clear that we have VERY different views on the world. I see a world that's dominated by an ultra-conservative, psudo-religious and ultimately money-worshiping ruling class and you seem to see a world dominated by ultra-leftist, socialist-leaning Marxist/Progressives. I fear that if we give in to the ultra-conservatives, we'll end up with a Christian Sharia State where those who oppose the State are brutally repressed. You seem to fear that if we give in to the Progressive agenda that we'll end up in a Leninist/Stalinist totalitarian state where faith and Freedom are violently repressed.
I think we can both agree that this movement has the potential to turn into something violent, and it probably will. I think we can also agree that this conflict is probably unavoidable because we are both students of history, and we both understand that when empires are in decline, conflicts over ideology often turn bloody.
That's why I do not embrace any agenda beyond the removal of Corporate interests from our Government. Once the power and influence of the 1% is removed from Washington, perhaps the collective wisdom (and cooler heads) of the American public will be able to come up with some workable solutions that may not resemble what you see as a purely "Progressive" or Marxist agenda. However, should the Power Elite decide to hunker down and use all the Power of the State to repress this movement, what they'll have is a bloody revolution on their hands where a populist/totalitarian ruler can emerge and make everyone's lives a living Hell.
I'm trying to find a peaceful solution to this inevitable conflict, because if we continue down this path, there will be no peace for a long time.
Posted By: Walt
Date: October 13, 2011 03:02:23 PM
Bentree's eternal pessimism to the contrary, I actually see some hope in the demands the Occupy Wall Street crowd have outlined. Of the top five you listed, I can support all of them to varying degrees. I do wish they would focus more on the monetary system, since that's really at the root of what they're complaining about, but this is certainly a start.
It's a little discouraging to see that they've placed so much emphasis on HR-1489, passage of which would accomplish little to nothing. Ron Paul's Free Competition in Currency Act, HR-1098 would actually do far more to accomplish the goals the protestors have than HR-1489 could ever accomplish.
Also, issues like "Free education Kindergarten through college" are among the nuttier stances, since in reality there is never any such thing as a free lunch. There's only the question of who pays for it, and starting kids off in life with the idea that they have a right to an education paid by others has produced the schools we have today in all their corrupt, autocratic, totalitarian, anti-personal-initiative, counterproductive, propagandistic glory.
But still, I can easily get behind ending corporate personhood and eliminating the Patriot Act.
So unlike Bentree, I see some silver linings in all this.
