The "Occupy" movement is growing like a tsunami in cities across the nation. Where are YOU? by Bill Gee
(centrist)
Thursday, October 6, 2011
I was informed that there is an Occupy movement starting in Philadelphia today. I plan to be joining them for at least a day next week. I have already sent money, food and some supplies and more is on the way.
Other Occupy movements have sprung up in Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, DC and I even heard of one starting up in Memphis!
I am shocked and dismayed by the lack of acknowledgement on NolanChart for this!
This is exactly what some of you have been advocating for since the first day I started writing in this forum, and now that it's actually happening, you've decided to sit on your hands and take a "wait and see" attitude? Get off your collective butts and take to the streets, send money or supplies to the front lines, do whatever you can to keep this going and growing until we finally can topple this regime and re-make this nation into one where people can start businesses, create jobs, and one where the most powerful companies don't pull all the strings of Power.
Does it matter that it was started by a bunch of "hippie college students" in a park in Lower Manhattan? Does it matter that you weren't there to get it moving? Does it matter that the only thing these people have in common is their collective feeling of powerlessness at the hands of the Corporate Cultural Elite? Nolan Chart gets hundreds of thousands of hits every month - do you think that not one of these kids have read what you told them and have finally decided to do something about it? These kids need us to inform them, teach them, and even lead them to a small extent, but most of all, they need us to lead by example!
So set your egos aside for a moment and see what is happening right in front of your eyes! This is history in the making, and where will you be?
Brian Irving, Joel Hirschorn, Bill Walker, Walt, Jake Towne, Jahfre Fire Eater, and the rest of you who have been so elegant at pointing out the failure of the state, I expect to see all of you either on the front lines or at least voicing your support of this movement. Otherwise, all we are are a bunch of old ladies sitting by our laptops and pretending that we give a damn about the future of this country.
THIS IS IT! THE TIME IS NOW! GET YOUR BUTTS MOVING!
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It doesn't matter who started it, but it DOES matter what its goals are. So far, it's a leaderless display of anger at what's been going on. In this regard, it is no different from the tea party movement, except that the tea parties now have self-elected leaders in their "leaderless" movement. I could just as easily demand that you start attending tea party meetings...except that I don't support most tea parties either. I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to attend tea party meetings, so I would reasonably expect that you wouldn't blame me either.
An awful lot of what they're demanding is stuff I just cannot support. For instance, the idea that people don't have jobs because they've all been sent to China just doesn't wash. The people who shout this are essentially protectionists, and as an economist you know the dangers of protectionism. Perhaps you should teach them about those dangers. (It's interesting to note that a lot of tea partiers make this same mistake and are equally protectionist in their own way.)
Now that the labor unions have joined in, they're going to turn Occupy Wall Street into Labor II. That's not going to work either. Labor unions have declined dramatically in popularity for a reason over the years, and it's a reason of their own making.
I like the fact that they're targeting Wall Street, but they're doing it for the wrong reasons, and that's counterproductive. Greed is not and should not be the issue, because everyone is greedy (including the protestors, although they won't ever admit it). I'm glad to see the occasional sign or two that says they want the Fed to stop printing money, but the signs and the websites supporting the protestors don't seem to have any understanding about what it takes to maintain a level, steady money supply. It's like they think that all you have to do is order the Fed to stop printing money and the problem goes away. We know that's not the case.
And as a final point...writing for the Nolan Chart in protest of things going on is NOT a case of doing nothing. Actually, those of us who have been writing for years have been doing a lot more than the protestors, and we will continue to do what we've done. That doesn't make us do-nothings. To the contrary, we're the ones who are moving the debate forward.
Posted By: Bentree
Date: October 6, 2011 11:00:28 AM
The Entitlement vs Infrastructure
The passionately passionate Yuts marching around the country may be a blessing in disguise, maybe just maybe we can begin to determine just who is going to pay for this mess. I think it is safe to say that they don't want to pay for it, I know I don't want to pay for it, Bill Gee, are you willing to pay for it? I assume, which leaves the door wide open, that you, like I are willing to pay for what we receive, use or otherwise consume while at the same time providing for the truly needy. Admittedly a perjorative term, I mean the books need to be balanced, right?
The fact of the matter is that when anyone of us turns on a light switch, get in our automobile, take our kids to school, go to the hardware or lumber yard, food, receive largesse, etc,etc. We depend on infrastructure designed to support those specific needs and services and "somehow" it must be paid for.
I for one, am a fan of user fees whenever, wherever it is feasable. The purchase of a gallon of paint is a user fee. That fee sustains an infrastructure put in place to provide you with that gallon of paint on demand.
I pay bank fees because of the of the convience and access to my money, not altruism. You provide the service, I'll support your infrastructure, it is just as simple as that. I mention bank fees only because it seems to be part of the focus here. I don't like Bof A and I don't do business with them, my choice.
Now I grew up in a family of "thinkers" who unabashedl believed that they should be paid to think. I really don't have a problem with that except for the hierarchy of renumeration vs the thought stuff. Do you see the problem here? I always did and have the skid marks from being thrown out of the house to prove it. As for these geniuses marching around in the streets, I've done my share of marching around in the streets, so I'm all for it, even after I got older and fatter I am still willing to march around in the streets. The essence of what I hear from these young people is that they don't want to pay for that which they feel they so richly deserve, see "entitlement" Which of course is not a new concept, in fact it is as old as man's history, their I go assuming again. I will go on record right now supporting anything they want as long as they are willing to pay for it and they don't violate mine or others rights. There, I only mentioned "rights" once.
If they would go to Washington and surround the Congress, in order to re-assert the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, that would tell me that your thinking is sound, indicating that we may have a future free of tyranny, have correctly identified the real problem and at that point I'll go buy my ticket.
Posted By: Bill Gee
Date: October 6, 2011 11:06:52 AM
Walt,
So are you going to wait around until the protestors can come up with a cohesive agenda that you can support 100% before you decide to help? Are you going to nit-pick at their banners and slogans until they come up with something you can agree with?
These kids need your help NOW!
These kids are scared, angy and confused because they don't know how to sort out the thousands of lies they've been told all their lives. The truth is, they don't know what they really believe in except that they are tired of being lied to, and they want something different. The labor unions might be getting involved to push their own agenda, but have you considered that they might be getting involved because they're just as scared, angry and confused as the rest of us? What sounds to you like Protectionism, sounds like anger and dismay at the economic status quo to me. In other words, it isn't WHAT they're saying, it's that they are saying it at all, and they're risking their lives by taking a stand against injustice, even if they have no idea what that actually means.
What they need from us is direction, but we cannot do that from our laptop computers. We have to get into the trenches with them in order to do that. As activists who have done our homework and understand what is actually going on, it is our duty to provide these kids with the direction they need so that they can direct their anger and their civil disobedience in ways that are likely to make the greatest impact.
Otherwise, the corporate cronies in the media will continue to laugh at them and gladly point out only the craziest, most outlandish protestors in order to delegitimize their movement.
Spend a day with the protestors and tell me if I'm wrong.
Posted By: Bill Gee
Date: October 6, 2011 11:22:27 AM
Bentree,
I'm glad you agree with the spirit of the movement, at least in principle, and it is my sincere belief that their ultimate agenda is one that you would agree with even if they can't really articulate it yet. I believe the reason why their "manifesto" is so disjointed is because they are protesting EVERYTHING, and what I mean by that is that they know their Rights have been trampled to dust, they know that the political game is one they cannot possibly participate in nor have any hope of winning, and they know that their economic futures are little more than a fiction from a previous generation. In other words, they are the definition of the angry mob, but they also know better than to start arming themselves and shooting at police.
It is also my sincere belief that the majority of the protestors believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and that they also believe that Wall Street and the politicians in Washington have lost sight of that.
That is why we need to be there to help shape their agenda into something cohesive before the movement gets hyjacked by opportunistic elites who will use the angry mob to their own twisted ends.
