In retrospect, the tragic result of Jared Loughner's retreat into marijuana dependency ought to be what shocks and outrages us; instead, we focus on assuring ourselves that we really believe in only relativistic political discourse. by Paul Benedict
(libertarian)
Monday, January 17, 2011
You're laughing, aren't you? "Reefer Madness" quelled all these fears beneath it's hilarity seventy-five years ago! What about Cheech and Chong's "A Child's Garden of Grass"? Surely, that ended ALL debate. Marijuana and madness? What a hoot. We ALL smoked grass in college. It's a right of passage. If you can't roll a joint, you can't rush a fraternity .
If you're even grinning, for about ten minutes try believing something other than a Hollywood stereotype. Here are a few facts.
At sixteen, Jared Loughner was described by Kelsey Hawkes, his girlfriend from 2005, as "gentle" and "kind." He seemed to Kelsey to really be the young man often pictured online.
Hawkes continues that her ex-boyfriend was "you know a little bit quiet, but altogether a pretty great guy." What changed this young man to clean cut college student with a sad, far-away look as is pictured here?
As he began college, even as late as 2007, his friends had begun to describe him as "quirky." Then he changed even more. What changed Jared into the hooded young man chronically dangling a head phoned and flashing the deranged grin shown here? That grin... that look. It's odd, but that's your neighbor. We feel bad for that kid we all know, but the truth is we know what going on with our neighbor. Likewise, we know what's was going on with Jared.
He became a stoner. And that’s also plain from the record.
To be certain, the Loughner family’s interaction with police is odd. Still, the key year seems to have been 2007. In September of 2007 Loughner was arrested for possession of a controlled substance (a roach and pipe residue) and drug paraphernalia. Then, in December of 2007, he first attended the "Congress on your Corner" at Pima Community College. There, according to friends, he asked a "typical Jared" question of then State Representative Gabrielle Giffords, one fixated on language with the logic of what Cheech and Chong affectionately called a pothead's "divine revelation." Finally, a year later, in December of 2008, Loughner was unable to enlist in the army because he freely admitted using marijuana "hundreds of times." Did Loughner complete a drug treatment program in 2008? It sounds like he either made no mention of his rehabilitation or that he had ignored or avoided the mandatory program.
Certainly Loughner’s rantings sound like those of some one so stoned that he thinks lunacy is genius:
"You don’t allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener? The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. What’s government if words don’t have meaning?"
While other ravings about a lime green bird sound more like the result of a hallucinogenic drug (perhaps savia), much of his disconnected ramblings are described in medical literature, such Web MD, as "magical" or "random thinking" ("Psychological Effects").
As an alcoholic denies he has a problem, so also many deny that marijuana poses any personal or social issues. This is absolutely incorrect. Studies have shown that there is as much as a five fold (that’s 500%) increase in reports of depression among daily users of cannabis. In fact, benign as legalization advocates claim marijuana is it "has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia." When confronted with such studies, marijuana users will claim, with the authority of anecdotal evidence, that cannabis only brings out such illness in people. Inevitably, they will then follow this first claim with this second one: "They aren’t ‘like that’; therefore, they aren’t at risk." This is classic substance abuse denial. Indeed, while "over thirty different studies have documented marijuana’s link with symptoms of schizophrenia," they also demonstrate that cannabis "is an independent risk factor (my emphasis) for schizophrenia." A study of fifty thousand Swiss soldiers show that heavy users of marijuana at age 18 had a 600% increased of schizophrenia later in life."
Perhaps because of our ignorance, but just as likely because of our national inclination towards moral relativism, we let people sick with denial, delude themselves and others as they ramble on about health benefits of marijuana.
What ultimately changed Lougner into the personification of evil seen in the mug shot RELEASED by the Phoenix police?
By the time Loughner’s case gets to court there will surely be evidence unearthed that Loughner thought he was peeling onions not shooting a gun. However, prior to his college years there is little evidence of schizophrenia.
In hindsight Loughner’s tragic rampage was complete with warning signs, including his depraved dependency on illegal and legal mind altering drugs. The dangers of marijuana and hallucinogenic drugs should be the national outcry here, not non-relativistic political views or the varnish of supposed gun control fewer than 200 miles from the automatic weapons of cartel infested Mexico.
Despite loud denials, every drug addict knows what is happening to him. Even chain smokers know what they are doing to their bodies. Perhaps Loughner wanted to alter his mind. That’s why he used mind-altering drugs. Loughner knew what he was turning into, just like every pothead knows. Perhaps, unlike many people, Loughner simply caved in. He turned his mind over to the abyss, and it became a whorehouse for every evil thought. Perhaps Loughner freely chose to release his inner demons on the world.
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Posted By: Walt
Date: January 17, 2011 02:58:26 PM
You make as little sense as the people who claim that legalized guns caused the deaths of his victims.
Nowhere in your little diatribe do you actually consider the likelihood that it was Jared Loughner who caused their deaths...not a Glock 19...not a pot plant...not a glass of scotch...not even his parents.
Since you seem obsessed with the idea that the cause of the crime was something other than Jared Loughner, then perhaps you can explain this: what led him to turn to drugs of any kind in the first place? Is it remotely possible that whatever that cause was might also have been what drove him to commit this crime?
Your desire to pin Loughner's crime on drugs is pathetic.
Posted By: smith
Date: January 17, 2011 05:59:51 PM
"Surely, that ended ALL debate. Marijuana and madness?"
No! What ended it was education. What ended it are the tens of thousands of research papers from people who actually study the universe they live in, and everything in it. Even Cannabis! Science wins. Updated .002 seconds ago.
Posted By: Paul Benedict
Date: January 17, 2011 08:34:31 PM
Hi Walt,
Just to be clear, I certainly intended to put personal responsibility on Loughner. My writing was not that vague: "...tragic result of JARED LOUGHNER's Retreat..."
I did use "perhaps" when I discussed Loughner's choices in his final state only because such unthinkable evil is a little difficult to quantify.
Walt, as long as you see that drug abuse is indicative of vice, even if you don't agree that here it led to incredible viciousness, we are largely in agreement.
This article is really about the linked studies, the scientific studies about the consequences of marijuana dependency. I would invite my critics to challenge these studies rather than to blithely ignore their warning
Posted By: malcolmkyle
Date: January 18, 2011 05:26:54 AM
“Associated with” is not the same as “causation.”
Schizophrenia affects approximately one percent of the population. That percentage has held steady since the disease was identified, while the percentage of people who have smoked marijuana has varied from about 5% to around 40% of the general population.
Source: http://www.schizophrenia.com/szfacts.htm
Kindly Google any of the following combinations:
Nicotine and Schizophrenia
Alcohol and Schizophrenia
Chocolate and Schizophrenia
Sugar and Schizophrenia
Gluten and Schizophrenia
So should we hand the market in any of the above substances to criminals (which is what prohibition effectively does) because its use is 'associated' with a certain minute part of the population? Many bipolar patients misuse caffeine and tobacco in an effort to bring on a manic state, thus becoming a danger to themselves or others. Should tobacco and caffeine or whatever works for each individual be prohibited to boost ratings or rhetoric also? Where does it end?
Cigarette smoking rates in the American population are approximately 23%, whereas rates of smoking in clinical and population studies of individuals with neuropsychiatric disorders are typically two- to four-fold higher.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1201375/?tool=pmcentrez
Caffeine is most certainly linked with mental illness; psychosis even. Here’s some reading:
Broderick, P. & Benjamin, A.B. (2004). Caffeine and psychiatric symptoms: a review. Journal of the Oklahoma State Medical Association, 97(12), 538-542.
According to Bryce Tierney, Loughner, once said, “I’m going to lead a more healthy lifestyle, not smoke cigarettes or pot anymore, and I’m going to start working out.” Tierney was happy for his friend: “I said, ‘Dude, that’s awesome.’ And the next time I saw him he was 10 pounds lighter.” Tierney never saw Loughner smoke marijuana again After Loughner apparently gave up drugs and booze, “his theories got worse,” Tierney says. “After he quit, he was just off the wall.”
We can continue to blame, and attempt to prohibit, any of the above substances, but nothing will change except for the fact that criminals will become richer, terrorists will grow stronger, and our corrupt politicians will call for even more infringements on what's left of our freedoms by passing laws that will take us even closer to total economic and social collapse. So pat yourself on the back Paul Benedict …as this 'once great & free' nation dies a little more with each passing day.
Posted By: Walt
Date: January 18, 2011 07:18:06 AM
Walt, as long as you see that drug abuse is indicative of vice, even if you don't agree that here it led to incredible viciousness, we are largely in agreement.
This article is really about the linked studies, the scientific studies about the consequences of marijuana dependency. I would invite my critics to challenge these studies rather than to blithely ignore their warning
No, we're largely in disagreement. I invite you to look beyond the studies, which almost never look at the root causes of substance abuse. One thing I know you'd find is that the vast majority of substance abusers were, themselves, abused in some way when they were young. This doesn't excuse their actions, but it also makes clear that it wasn't the drugs which screwed them up. They were screwed up long before the drugs entered their lives.
Posted By: Paul Benedict
Date: January 18, 2011 11:40:21 AM
MalcomKyle:
One of the studies I cited declared marijuana as an independent variable. Yes, acute alcholism, not a few drinks at dinner, is also associated with schizophrenia.
The direct connections lie in the nature of marijuana as altering brain chemistry and not leaving the brain fats for extended periods of time. However, as the chemical imbalances related to schizophrenia are not yet clearly known, it is true that statistical association is all "science" has.
I haven't seen the sugar thing. I'll check it out.
"IV. Restructure health insurance around free choice, state's rights, and personal responsibility. (See "Wrinkles on the GOP's Health Care Solutions...") Drug abuse should be legal, but those involved in substance abuse should be deprived the right to all social programs. They can have their own risk pools for health insurance."
I'm in favor of legalization as long as each person takes responsibility for the consequences of their drug abuse.
I'm also highly in favor of confronting folks with the irresponsibilities of their words and actions.
It is hard to argue the wide variety of studies. However, the best focus of American outrage, in the case of Loughner, would be to attempt just this.
Walt,
It's hard to look beyond the studies without additional studies.
I'm not in favor of blaming Loughner's parents. That's as easy as blaming guns or Palin. Even as a juror with a great amount of evidence against the parents I would not be persuaded. There are many more children who (sadly) are abused who do not commit violent crimes. Likewise, there are many who reject substance abuse based on the substance abuse they saw in their parents. There are also many who reject substance abuse, no matter how they started, when they learn its true nature.
Posted By: Paul Benedict
Date: January 18, 2011 12:05:36 PM
Malcomkyle:
I did a little research on Tierney's comments. His description of Loughner's interest in "lucid dreaming" does make it sound like savia had become Loughner's choice of drug. The NYT had an interesting article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/us/18salvia.html?src=twrhp
His friends say he was also messing with shrooms in high school. The time table and Tierney's comments are a little confusing. The military rejected Loughner in late 2008. Tierney must have learned about it in early 2009.
It does seem that the high school drug abuse very seriously impacted this young man's development. This hardly seems to be at issue. Just remember, you heard it hear first.
This article quotes studies that seem esoteric at best. The associative connection is not at all conclusive. There is at least an alleged conclusive associative connection between marijuana use and schizophrenia in the studies I cited.
Posted By: Ajax the Great
Date: January 18, 2011 07:11:48 PM
Paul,
Malcolmkyle is right. Correlation does not prove causation. Nor did any of those studies you cite show an association of marijuana and violence, by the way. None. That's because, unlike alcohol, cannabis is far more likely to inhibit violence than to fuel it.
Counter-evidence for the claim that cannabis causes schizophrenia/psychosis can be found at the following links:
Most notable is the fact that cannabis use went from negligible levels in 1960 to millions of users in 2010, yet the rate of schizophrenia has remained constant or even decreased in many countries.
As for Loughner, he was an EX-drug user, having quit all drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) in late 2008, over two years before the shooting. Ironically, his psychosis apparently got worse AFTER he quit, especially in 2010 with his outbursts and YouTube videos, as well as his newfound interest in shooting. So much for marijuana leading to murder.
You say, "Drug abuse should be legal, but those involved in substance abuse should be deprived the right to all social programs. They can have their own risk pools for health insurance." I say, who are you to play God? Does "drug abuse" include all use, or only problematic/excessive use? Which substances? How about booze? Or cigarettes? Because it sounds like you are simply trading one form of oppression with another. A far more equitable solution would be to legalize drugs (at least cannabis), treat users and non-users equally, but tax the hell out of any newly legalized substances as well as raise the alcohol and tobacco taxes. And use the money to pay for healthcare, education, and drug treatment and prevention programs.
Posted By: Walt
Date: January 18, 2011 07:55:32 PM
It's hard to look beyond the studies without additional studies.
On the contrary, it's quite easy. All you have to do is to decide that studies are not the only way to understand reality. But when you're locked in on studies, not only will you end up with a very narrow understanding of the world; you also won't be able to recognize insight, knowledge and understanding when it isn't wrapped in an academic folder.
Posted By: Walt
Date: January 19, 2011 08:33:16 AM
It's also worth noting that scientific studies are only as valid as the answers they elicit from their subjects. Study results will be wrong when respondents lie, mislead, or deceive survey takers.
For instance, surveys taken in the 1970s showed that there were virtually no incidents of sexual abuse among the population. These results occurred because those surveyed who had in fact been victims of sexual abuse gave false or misleading answers out of shame and/or repression of their horrible experiences.
Surveys should never be considered the basis for decision-making or issue-comprehension when the subject of the survey could encourage respondents to not give 100% truthful answers.
Posted By: Paul Benedict
Date: January 19, 2011 09:08:01 PM
Hi Walt,
We seem to be talking around each other or something. The more you wirte the less I understand. I know you don't mean this, but to show the depth of the misunderstanding here, it sounds like you are saying "let's all get stoned and have divine revelation" about the meaning of it all.
Posted By: Paul Benedict
Date: January 19, 2011 09:23:07 PM
Ajax and MalcomKyle:
On the scientific side, the 1% baseline for schizophrenia sounds too high. I'm in education and have had thousands of students and have been around long enough to meet thousands. I've only met one person diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Short hair... no drugs but his medication. If we literally had 1 in 100 diagnosed schizophrenia suffers in society... Hell, it would be congress everywhere.
soo... let's say it is more like 1 in a 1,000 who suffer schizophrenia... if you multiply this by six we are up to 6 in 1,000. We are still nowhere near 1 percent.
However, your individual risk would be six times higher (no pun intended).
Ajax, you didn't read the article on salvia I urged you to read. Loughner stopped smoking and started "lucid dreaming."
In general, the argument has been, "pot is no worse than alcohol, alcohol is legal, pot should be legal." That's a weak argument that lets Big-Nanny-Government continue to insist we all wear seatbelts.
Better: "Liberty is the path of the courageous, the bane of the weak, the balm of the strong. Let us separate the weak from the strong, the responsible from the foolish by a allowing liberty to live. Live free or die. Legalize it all."
Grow some Libetarians! Motocrose riders love the risk. NFL players play despite the risk. Let's get on planes without full body scans. Let's be Americans. If folks want to abuse drugs, tell them the risks and let them run... but tell them the risks... and you should admit the risks
No additional risk of mental disease from using marijuana... Be serious.
Posted By: cashel2
Date: January 20, 2011 01:52:58 PM
Hello Paul,
Brave of you to tackle this topic. The science that shows marijuana as being causal for psychotic disorders (including schizophrenia) can be found in a study out of the Netherlands (where they have ample experience with marijuana): Henquet et al., 2005, Prospective cohort study of cannabis use, predisposition for psychosis and psychotic symptoms in young people, BMJ. In brief, the study was fairly large (over 2400) and followed a group of teens for 4 years or so. Those who began smoking pot during the course of the study were twice as likely to become psychotic, but those who showed symptoms of psychosis at study onset were no more likely to begin smoking pot than mentally normal teens, an outcome dealt a heavy blow to the argument that psychotic teens are just self-medicating.
The next question one might ask is what proportion of those who develop a marijuana-associated psychosis go on to become schizophrenic, i.e. have a lifelong, largely irreversible psychosis? In a 2008 study by Arendt et al. (Familial predisposition for psychiatric disorder, comparison of subjects treated for cannabis-induced psychosis and schizophrenia, Archives of General Psychiatry), the authors found in a study of over 2 million individuals in Denmark (they can do this because they have centralized health care), about 1/2 of those who developed a marijuana-induced psychosis went on to develop full blown schizophrenia. Significantly, this outcome was true whether or not the individual had a family history of psychosis. In other words, it is not just those who have a psychotic family member who are at risk.
A final point is to refute the commonly heard argument that those who have a genetic disposition for schizophrenia are destined to become ill no matter what, and marijuana might just get them there a little faster. The truth is that no one is destined to become schizophrenic. Even if you have ALL the genes (and the genes of risk have not been identified yet), in the form of an identical twin with the disease, only 50% of the time will both twins get sick. The other half go on to lead normal, productive, good lives.
Posted By: David Nolan
Date: January 12, 2012 01:49:58 PM
Unless we have done a lot of drinking or pot smoking.. we aren't good persons to ask..
But with out a doubt.. it's the schizophrenia.
The pot doesn't make you crazy.
LOL with schizophrenia... you ARE crazy and some use pot to calm the voices in there head.
Most of the people that suffer from schizophrenia will not tell you how long they have been hearing voices in there heads.
Once in awhile they become spiritual leaders
Blaming pot for a killer.. is like blaming the naked ankles of the girls in the 20s for all the sex and violence of the Roaring 20's. [by the way it wasn't the booze it was the fact of the black market on booze]
Got to love your mind.. I get a bigger kick out of John McCain's and Rick Santorum.
They seem from what they say like they may hear voices.. just kidding.
Posted By: NFLis2great
Date: January 17, 2012 03:00:36 AM
I honestly don't believe this Paul Benedict is real, my honest opinion is that this "Paul Benedict" person is trying to get a rise out of people by presenting them with false facts. First off, do you actually believe there is a correlation between Marijuana and schizophrenia, or even mental illness for that matter. I mean, seriously? Pot use has exponentially risen since the 1960's, and yes that is an understatement. So why hasn't cases of schizophrenia risen even somewhat significantly? I have researched and have found no conclusive evidence supporting you're opinion.
If you are real and are actually giving you're opinion then how can anyone take you seriously when you say this:
"We seem to be talking around each other or something. The more you wirte the less I understand. I know you don't mean this, but to show the depth of the misunderstanding here, it sounds like you are saying "let's all get stoned and have divine revelation" about the meaning of it all." I hope for you're sake you are completely joking and in no way are you serious, at all. You are responding as if you are in 2nd grade all over again. It's laughable how closed minded you are.
You are actually the one talking around Walt, he is giving you logical explanations and you seem to be automatically dismissing whatever he says. Not to be rude but I hope for you're sake that you are not actually an educator. Simply because in you're article and all of you're comments in the comment section, you seem to be very very biased and focused on you're opinion. I understand you have provided us with "studies" and "facts" but let's be honest no person in their right mind would actually take you serious with what you are saying I'm sorry. It actually disturbed me to the point where I just had to respond. You are incredibly closed minded and biased. The best way to describe you would be comparing you to a "corrupt politician" by the way you blatantly ignore the real facts and you're creativity with making up lies is very disturbing. There are way too many inconsistencies and lies in you're article that it came to a point were the only thing I could do is just laugh and think to myself that this whole thing is fake. That's the only way I can justify you're opinion. The only thing I can say is that I feel very sorry for you. People like you will never allow themselves to discover the real truth about certain things, the only thing that will be true in your eyes is "you're truth" which is actually "you're opinion"
