An email from a contributor here at the Nolan Chart serves raises the question of how to handle evil in our midst. by Walt Thiessen
(libertarian)
Sunday, May 9, 2010
I received an email from Phil Manger, one of our contributors, about a new contributor, Billy Roper. I confess that I had never heard of Billy Roper before this. I thought he was just another guy wanting to express his views here at the 'Chart. Phil wrote me to bring me some information about him. Roper, it seems, is a neo-Nazi, who also scores libertarian on the Nolan Chart survey. Phil is alarmed by this fact, and he wanted to make sure I knew about it...and that I did something about it.
In Phil's words:
As it happens, last night I watched a documentary on neo-nazis in America, and Roper's name was prominently mentioned. According to the documentary, neo-nazi groups are using people's concerns with illegal immigration to try to recruit members for their organizations. It appears the Nationalist Party of America is a neo-nazi front.
He went on to say:
Now, I'm a First Amendment absolutist, but nothing in that amendment obliges you to provide a platform for neo-nazis. I'm especially bothered by the "libertarian" tag under his byline. We already know the mainstream media have been doing everything it can to tie the tea partiers to white supremacists and neo-nazis. Can you imagine what they might do if they learn that a REAL neo-nazi is a regular contributor to this website? And what that would do to the "libertarian" label?
By the way, Phil gave me permission to repeat all this. He wrote:
You can do whatever you want with this information. However, I will not contribute any more articles as long as Roper's name is in any way associated with Nolan Chart.
And certainly, it is his right to make that choice. Then, he followed up with a P.S.:
If I were you, I would remove everything Roper has written and make some sort of public announcement about why you are doing it so that it will be clear to everyone that his views are not representative of libertarians or other contributors to the site. But that's just my opinion.
I didn't reply to his message right away because I was busy at the time earning a living. I promised to reply to him in full this weekend. That's the purpose of this article. I normally don't reply to email writers via articles on the site, because that's not usually the best way to handle such things. In this case, however, I felt an exception was merited. The issue Phil raised amounts to much more than just a first amendment issue. It's an issue that runs to the core of the liberty movement. It's an issue that runs to the core of America today.
First, I have news for Phil. People who hate other people are found in all political camps, including the libertarian camp. This has been true for generations, and it's true of the liberty movement, the tea party phenomenon, and the anti-health care boondoggle crowd. Of course, it's also true of the pro-health-care-boondoggle crowd, the big government crowd, and both the liberal and the conservative camps. Surprisingly to some, perhaps, people who hate other people based on race, religion, or other irrelevant bases are also found in the moderate camp, although I'm sure it will surprise very few regulars at this site to learn that people who hate also inhabit the statist camp.
There are Ron Paul supporters who hate other people. There are Chuck Baldwin supporters who hate other people. There are Barack Obama supporters who hate other people. The same can be said for Rush Limbaugh suppporters, Glenn Beck supporters, Bill Maher supporters, Al Franken supporters, Ed Shultz supporters, Stephanie Miller supporters, John McCain supporters, Sarah Palin supporters, Mike Huckabee supporters, and Hillary Clinton supporters. There are Libertarian, Democratic, Republican, Constitution, Green, and Reform Party supporters who hate other people for racial, religious, and other irrelevant reasons. Many of the haters on the left vehemently deny their own racism and hatred, but it's on plain display for everyone to see. Many haters on the right deny their own racism but gleefully blame existing racism on the left.
Having established the fact that hatred, racism, and religious prejudice exist in all political camps, the next question to ask is: what do we do about it? Phil clearly expresses the view that we should shun such people and deny their presence, as well as their right to express their views, particularly in the liberty movement. He expresses horror at the notion that such a person should actually score as a libertarian. He greatly fears that the media will discover that the Nolan Chart website allows such a hate-monger to publish here, and he worries that such a revelation will undermine this site in particular and the liberty movement as a whole. He wants me to sweep Billy Roper under a carpet, make some sort of humble apology to the public for ever having mistakenly let him in here, and then purge him completely from our database.
The biggest problem with this solution is that it wouldn't work. To the contrary, it would backfire spectacularly. In politics, when you're not on offense, you're on defense. Behaving defensively, and shamefacedly, in regard to a known racist in our midst in an attempt to prevent people from finding out that, despite his racist beliefs, he scores libertarian on our survey, is like a dog trying to cover up what he did in the middle of the kitchen floor.
The way to handle a Billy Roper isn't to try to hide him. The way to handle him is to confront him publicly, openly, and often. The way to handle him is to publicly and loudly denounce his anti-social hatred, to say, "He may claim to support liberty, but his hatred shows that in reality he is lying to himself as much as he lies to everyone else when he makes that claim."
The tea party movement in particular has done a very poor job of confronting its own; this is precisely why the hate crowd have gained so much prominence within it. It is also why the media, and the tea party's political opponents, have made so much "political hay" out of the presence of so much hatred within that movement.
No, the way to handle a Billy Roper is not to cover him up. The way to handle him is to get in his face about it. We must shout to the world that, because of his anti-social attitudes and behavior, we do not consider him to be one of us. Until he changes his mind, and his attitude, we will proclaim to the world that we do not see eye to eye with him. We must express clearly that racism in all its forms has no place in our hearts and in our minds, and that this is what distinguishes us from the Billy Ropers of the world, even the ones who otherwise score as libertarians.
Indeed, if Phil took the time to read the comments that readers have left to Roper's articles here on the 'Chart, he'd find that Roper is already being confronted. That's as it should be. If Phil wants to use the power of his pen to write articles for the same purpose, to publicly denounce the anti-libertarian aspects of Roper's advocacy, he is very welcome to do so. In fact, it would be the truly responsible thing to do.
Billy Roper and his ilk will not go away quietly. They'll continue to spread their poison in the dark shadows of the liberty movement, hoping to attract naive support. The only thing that defeats darkness is light. So if we want to stop the Billy Ropers of the movement from undermining the movement, we must shine a light on their poisonous beliefs. This is how one person can spread the light of liberty, and when a whole bunch of people do the same thing, then that light increases until it lights the entire world.
That's the correct way to handle a Billy Roper.
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Posted By: Dan Steward
Date: May 9, 2010 03:54:12 PM
Roper is a slippery one all right. He takes all the old school nazi tactics of deflection and ignoring everything that doesn't fit in his little box of how the world is supposed to work.
Of course you need to watch out for a guy like him because he will try to solicit information that he could end up using against a person in the future, asking for what "political organizations" someone belongs to. That and little ineffective cheap shots just to try (and fail of course) to act cute.
He claims to want liberty, yet only for himself and his chosen group.
Posted By: Darren Wolfe
Date: May 9, 2010 06:08:31 PM
I checked out this Nationalist Party of America (NPA) platform. http://www.nationalistpartyofamerica.com/Mission.html They advocate national service, a national sales tax, "Free full College or University scholarships, or skilled job training" for the slaves in the national service, "A 2000-mile double-line electric fence and barricade wall between the United States and Mexico, delineating a patrolled frontier zone occupied by U.S. military forces.", an "invincible" military, & cutting off trade with certain countries. There's nothing libertarian about these things. Roper needs to reevaluate calling himself a libertarian.
Walt,
Great response. Although you have a right as the owner of this website to remove Billy Roper's post completely, you it could backfire against you. Billy Roper is a racist, bigot and full of hate towards non-whites, but we should support his free speech write and thus use our fee speech right against him. I was replying to his last post on deporting anchor babies and then I realized his background and call him a racist, and a bigot. I also told him that I fully support his 1st amendment right to be hateful as long as he does not commit any violence even though that is what he wants for America and for the World. He wants all non-white races in the World exterminted and burried. He also claims he is an environmentalist because he wants ALL of ASIA and ALL of AFRICA de-populated to extinction so that those continents are left with only the wild life and the trees. I also told him that I support his right to be a hateful in the same way I support the right of people to use drugs, do harm to themselves or even kill themselves, because after all, by being hateful he is only doing harm to himself unless he commits a violent crime against someone else. I even told him that one day when his step-daughter grows up, she may even marry a black or hispanic guy and have children with him so he will start hating his own daughter and his own grandchildren. After I called him all of that, he DID NOT DENY ANYTHING!!!
Phil,
Please, don't stop contributing just because a racist idiot is also a contributor. If you stop, you are letting him win. Write about him and agaisnt him in another article. He probably was rated "libertarian" in the quiz because althoguh he will be more in the Statist there are no categories in the Nolan Chart for NAZI. Based on the questions, he probably answer them as if in the world there are no other races than whites and thus he probably believes in "liberty" as long as he is the ruler and all the liberties are just for himself. Remember that the nolan chart survey is not perfect and "libertarian" was the unfortunate result of him taking the survey. Google "Billy Roper". There are lots of pages on him. Write a summary about him and his totalitarian tyranical practices. DO NOT LET HIM WIN.
I fully support Billy Roper's 1st amendment rights to hate speech. But if such hate speech turns into violence against myself, my family, or my property, I fully support MY 2nd amendment right.
Posted By: Dan Steward
Date: May 10, 2010 08:07:22 AM
Hey TRD. Guess what? He really does live in a trailer park. hahahahaha. I took a guess at in an article (that hasn't been approved yet) but it looks like I was right. I looked it up on a google map.
Ain't nothing funnier than trailer park trash belching, farting loud, scratching themselves in public and then going on about how THEY are the "master race". These clowns just don't get it. They just can't see just how absurd they look to everyone else.
There's hardly anything more hilarious than some bigoted chump telling everyone that he is "all that and a bag of chips". Then you notice that he is really just the crumbs at the bottom of the bag. These disgusting racists actually have the gall to call for the outright murder of those they consider beneath them.
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: May 13, 2010 09:14:31 PM
Hi Walt,
Everyone has their own way of looking at the world and interpreting their reactions to what goes on around them. I started debating issues online in the mid-1990s. After a while I realized there is always another Billy Roper coming down the pike. Some folks think liberty guarantees them a "freedom from" behavior and opinions they are uncomfortable with. As Phil demonstrated though, the 'freedom from' expectations are a poor substitute for the 'freedom to' choose to leave. Phil expected the Nolan Chart quiz labels to protect him from people who hold distasteful notions about liberty. When that failed, he hoped you as the owner would protect his "reputation" from being tarnished by the vile Billy Roper. I hope all those in the "freedom from" wing of the liberty movement (whatever that is...) can learn from Phil's experience. Expecting to maintain a shield with liberty is a fools game. Liberty is opportunity, freedom to act, not freedom from actors. With regard to their opinions and behavior based on those opinions I find Phil and Billy equally destructive to the defense of liberty in the "freedom to" sense. All seekers of freedom from reality are enemies of liberty no matter how they score on quizzes and debates in the libertarian herd at large.
Billy wants attention...and he ALWAYS gets it because not only is there always another Billy Roper coming down the pike, there is also an endless succession of fools willing to feed his need. The only way to deal with Billy Roper is silence. Give him nothing and he will go elsewhere. Keep feeding him and he will mark this territory as his and keep stinking up the joint.
Libertarians often can't refrain from the fray when it is meaningless and has no potential for constructive outcome....and the Billy Ropers of the world are always there to lap up that futile expenditure of energy. Funny though, ask them to participate constructively and they have an endless supply of excuses and rationalizations for why doing something constructive about their liberty is contrary to their principles...or some such nonsense.
Anyway, I appreciate the way you addressed the issue but I disagree that anyone here should waste their energy and passion on the eternal chain of intellectual black holes that Billy Roper represents but one instance of. As for me, I just watch and laugh as self-righteous, self-marginalized libertarians line up to feed Billy Roper's need for attention. This is intellectual stagnation that plays out endlessly around the globe on the internet. These same people having the same arguments about the same offensive beliefs over and over and over and neither side comes away with anything but certainty that their opponents are idiots. Of course, usually they are right.
Personally I'm OK with liberty being used by Billy Roper to put forth offensive and antisocial opinions. I believe that ideas need to pass the trial of intellectual friction before they become established, mainstream notions. The ideals of Billy Roper cannot stand the heat of that intellectual furnace. They can only exist as long as the Billy Ropers of the world can keep luring others to lend them credibility by engaging them personally. Constructive handling of bad ideas doesn't involve attacking individuals who hold them. People change but bad ideas never become good ideas.
In the end though no matter what I choose to do or what any of you choose to do, leave, stay, argue, ignore, whatever, the only sure thing is that there will always be another Billy Roper and always someone who cannot resist feeding him...or her.
-Jahfre Fire Eater
