Topic: Iran
Was the Neda Agha-Soltan video a Hoax? A few humble observations, and a few impertinent questions.by Gary Trieste
(libertarian)
Wednesday, June 24, 2009
It was the shocking video that flashed around the world by the Internet. An at-the-scene moment, taken during the recent Iran election protest demonstrations.
The Neda Agha-Soltan video, shows a young woman in the street, having been struck down by a government sniper's bullet.
The video shows her stunned, and collapsing backward to the ground while being let down gently by a man.
The woman peers sideways at the camera coming towards her, with an perturbing visage of resignation on her face, probably due to massive shock. A closeup of her face suddenly reveals rivulets of blood streaming down the side of her mouth and then from her nose, while a doctor attempts to revive her.
In the background we can hear her friends trying encourage and console her. Heart rending sounds of anguish and cries come shortly thereafter when it is apparent she had succumbed to her injuries.
Shocking. An indictment of the callous and brute force of the Iranian militia. A tragic and senseless death that shows perfectly how wrong this conflict is.
And yet, as one gets over the visceral impact of it, past the gut wrenching tragedy, and one begins to reflect . . . does it not have, perhaps, a bit of a "too-perfect-to-be-true" feel to it?
Much like the infamous Stephen Glass articles written for the New Republic, edgy, highly topical, and on point to cutting edge social events, his articles were just too good not to be true, they went down as smoothly as KoolWhip and Flan.
But too good they were, and 90% of what he wrote about as an eye-witness reporter, he simply made up.
Before I continue, I should say that I totally support, and am in awe of, the brave Iranian citizens who defied the threat of lethal force from their Supreme Leader, and who continued to protest for their civil rights against the fraudulent election results that their corrupt regime declared by divine edict.
But in this case, the video, the backstory - are just too good not to be true. And thus perhaps, just too good to be true.
Taken with a skeptical eye, the analytical acumen of a Monk, or a Patrick Jane, a point-by-point analysis of this video (and another of the same event), what we actually see, suggests things may not be what they are purported to be.
And then we might just suspend belief in the easy, consumable story we are being served up by the story's proponents, participants, and the incritical media at large.
As a disclaimer, I might be completely off base and the story may totally be what it appears to be. If so, I apologize to any who may be offended, however . . . .
As I see it, there truly are a series of misconnects, non-sequitors, inconsistencies, and not-quite-right factoids surrounding the videos and backstory accompanying them.
To start off, there is what appears to be two different Nedas (photos of two different women supposedly her), and (currently) a question of any independent source identifying Neda as a real person.
Then, Neda was said to have been shot by a member of the Basij, an officially sanctioned vigilante organization.
And yet, as they are not police or military, most Basiji are not permitted to carry firearms except for special requirements and when not in actual combat?
And then, why would they pick out a non-protesting woman, 1km from where the protests were occuring, just stepping out of a car for a few minutes. And, how did anyone even know it was a Basiji, since it was claimed to be from a unseen sniper on an adjacent building.
Moving now to the video . . .
For the massive injury she supposedly sustained, a direct bullet shot to the center of her chest, I have to wonder, where is all the blood that would be coming from her torso or her back onto the ground, it should have been everywhere, including the spot where they are trying to give her CPR, all over their hands and her clothing, and a huge pool on the ground. Yet the only pool of blood appears to be at her feet before she falls down.
Then, most curious . . .
Shortly into the video, we see blood coming from her mouth. She is not sputtering it out, or coughing it up, as in an inability to breathe. Rather it appears rapidly and self flowing, and runs down both sides of her mouth, almost exclusively. Her center teeth aren't even stained.
Shortly thereafter blood appears to pour out her right nostril . . . Looking carefully in the video, it appears that both the mouth and nostril bleed occurs right after a hand is seen pushing up onto or into them.
These flow patterns appear more to be from a blood bladder timed for rupture when the camera was in the correct position. And the nose bleed appears only after what appears to be a rapid slight-of-hand insertion of blood into her nose.
Conveniently, an anonymous doctor was on hand to provide the CPR, and to try to save her life, provide credible medical testimony, then disappear from the scene.
Now I am nitpicking, but this video was supposedly shot with a cellphone videocam. It really seems a bit too high quality for that, more like a DV camcorder.
And then, there is the almost too perfect backstory of Neda, preceding the shooting and in preparation to go to the protests - her supposed repeated prescient commentary about any danger there, was a flippant "Don't worry. It's just one bullet and it's over", and that "Neda had said that even if she lost her life and got a bullet in her heart, she would carry on".
Of course, we find out that she was not really political and had no intention of active protesting, only that she was passionate about the honesty of the election process, and wanted to be there to see. Her fiancee said she "studied philosophy, music and tourism, was not political", i.e. principled, but thoroughly inoffensive.
Then on followup, there is the extreme rapid nature of her burial; no wake, or prefuneral proceedings, no Imam attending, or even pictures/video of that proceeding?
We now hear unsubstantiated reports that the Iranian government has banned any memorials or gatherings in her name, which conveniently explains why there is a dearth of public involvement in her very public death.
I don't want to bust anyone's bubble, but there seems to be too many "just right" elements to this story.
The Iranian government crackdown on foreign media reporting to the rest of the world, and curtailment of phone services and internet access, provides a ripe environment for just this kind of staged tragedy. All news coming from Iran is from amateur on-the-street participants.
The mass media, starving for news, and implicitly antipathetic toward the Iranian regime for their actions, snatched up this story and ran with it. It was just too good not to be true.
My oddsmaker assessment, 15% likely true, 85% likely hoax or staged.
I honestly hope the latter; this video made me cry.
　
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You know absolutely nothing about the brutal regime in Iran. Not allowing families of executed political activist to hold wakes or funerals is a trademark of the Iranian government. I have watched that video multiple times and I don’t see a swipe of a hand before blood comes out of her nose. On the quality of the video, my phone has an 8 megapixel camera built in and the videos are next to camcorder quality.
And just so you know the f****** basij does carry fire arms. On the doctor being present, Iran probably has more doctors per capita than many other countries due to cultural influences that push the young towards the fields of medicine or engineering.
Some people write because they have something to say others because they have to say something you are one of the latter. You in fact are an idiot.
Posted By: Walt Thiessen
Date: 2009-06-24 04:54:08
Gary, I think you're off base here. The quality of the video is consistent with a cell phone. Also, numerous news outlets including CNN and the UK Times Online are reporting that the Iranian government outlawed any mourning on her behalf . The Iranian government are the only other persons, besides you, claiming the video was a hoax. That fact alone throws doubt on your suggestion.
According to CNN:
A friend of hers interprets the fact that her body was released so quickly as a tacit acknowledgment by the government that the killing was carried out by government forces. That theory is supported by the fact that Iran's strict gun-control laws mean private citizens cannot carry firearms, the friend said.
Since her death, public displays of mourning for Neda have been prohibited, the friend said.
A gathering of about 60 people at a mosque was broken up by members of the Basij, the pro-government vigilantes blamed for much of the violence against demonstrators, according to New York Times columnist Roger Cohen, who observed the incident.
I'm pretty sure this incident was not staged, but rather it was the real thing.
I presume I am an idiot because you don't agree with my conjecture?
I concede that some cellphones do have sufficient resolution for this video (that is why I self chastised about nitpicking), but that you have an 8Mpix fixed resolution, does not comment on movie resolution.
The Basij can carry firearms; but most don't. That still begs the question, how does anyone know it was Basiji?
Walt:
Of course I could be off-base, I readily admitted that.
However, where are CNN and the UK Times getting their information from? As you know the Iranian govt imposed a foreign correspondence reporting blackout. So where would they be getting their reporting from? Basically no better than you or me, as is their inferential conclusions.
As to whether it was a hoax, the truth will come out within 2 months. I smell a rat in the presentation and scenario. Too many loose ends, too many convenient coincidences. Something doesn't add up. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
The fact of the matter is that most of the details of Neda's death will never truly be known because Iran has banned foreign media from corroborating anything. But reporters have spoken to her grief stricken fiance and her grave exists. I think it's unlikely she'd somehow spend the rest of her life in hiding.
As for her injuries, they are certainly consistent with a gunshot wound to the chest that looks like it probably ruptured some sort of arterial vessel. Exit wounds are generally much larger that entrance wounds and hands were being placed over the entrance wound, which would explain why there was pool of blood under her as she lay down.
With an artery or heart punctured she would have suffered massive heamoraging which would have first filled up her chest cavity and then spilled out her mouth and nose. The colour and texture of the blood (dark and relatively thick) is conisistent with massive arterial bleeding.
At the end of the day your speculation as to whether the video is faked is just that - speculation. Just like we can only specualte what actually happened to Neda and who killed her.
What we do know is that to the Iranians protesting on their streets she is a martyr for their cause.
Posted By: No Name Supplied
Date: 2009-06-24 08:05:37
It's troubling that someone can "suspend belief" when the result is a sensational "hoax" headline and, at the same time, claim "fraudulent election results that their corrupt regime declared by divine edict" to be the truth without a hint of skepticism.
Posted By: Walt Thiessen
Date: 2009-06-24 09:17:55
Gary: where are CNN and Times UK getting their information? I included that information with the CNN quote. The sources were a friend of the victim and a New York Times reporter on the scene named Roger Cohen. Perhaps you don't think that a New York Times columnist's eyewitness testimony is reliable? Or are you rejecting the friend's testimony even though it's corroborated?
CNN reported that Roger Cohen reported that he personally saw Basij militia break up a demonstration of 60 people at a mosque.
Nowhere is Roger Cohen quoted as saying he observed the Neda murder.
As to her friends and fiancee, well those testimonies are still suspect, and form the very basis of the story to begin with, and to date they have not been corroborated.
A better lead along your line of argument would be the alleged identification of the anonymous doctor and his supposed email testimony of self identification at the incident and request not to be mentioned publicly: http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/06/24/the-doctor/
Richard:
Although the Al-Durah case is more on-point to this one, I was more familiar with the Glass story, and the Al-Durah case hasn't been as thoroughly vetted. Although I believe it to be staged, there is still controversy on that view.
In the Glass case too, was the repeated submission of fraudulent stories, accepted because they were just "so right" in their facts , coverage and social commentary.
John:
The facts of the Neda case will be definitiively known. It will not be an inchoate existential mystery.The victim is too clearly depicted, as are the witnesses, and now possibly the alleged doctor.
As the article cites, there just isn't enough blood everywhere for this kind of injury. Not beneath her, or on her front.
Venous blood is dark, arterial blood is bright red.
Her image is an effective surrogate martyr for their cause, and if it emboldens them and empowers them, so much the better, for their cause is a just one.
Posted By: Walt Thiessen
Date: 2009-06-24 12:25:39
You didn't read what I said carefully, Gary, so follow your own advice. I didn't say that the Times reporter observed the murder. I said he corroborated the friend's statement about the crackdown on mourning by confirming a crackdown on a gathering at a local mosque. That surely lends credibility to the friend's statement, regardless of whether the gathering at the mosque was specifically about mourning the murdered girl.
Also, there's no reason to believe that it has to be a sniper's bullet. that killed her If a militia member had fired over the heads of the demonstrators, the bullet could easily have had a trajectory to strike a passery-by down the street. In fact, I'd give that scenario a higher level of likelihood.
I had the very same thoughts about this video after the horror of what I was watching wore off. I believed it was a hoax then and believe even more convincingly now after seeing exactly what I was thinking articulated in this article.
The force of a chest shot, even at long range, would be sufficient to knock someone of her size off her feet. Anyone on this board ever shoot a deer? At 200 yards a shot from a high powered rifle on a 120lb buck will knock them down instantly, even if it is not well placed.
I also had questions about the pool of "blood" on the ground at her feet as she was being softly laid to the ground. I, too, could be way off base, but I see all the same issues that you do, Gary. If it is a hoax, I fully understand why they are doing it and have no issues with their motive but the inconsistencies are to obvious to go unmentioned.
Thank you for your article. When I first saw this, it was posted as two videos on that site. Like "take one" and "take two". You would and others as well know for certain that it was a staged propaganda video. The first "take" is why there is a pool of "blood" on the pavement. She is carried forward to a clean spot and reshot.
Notice the passersby. They do not behave as though shots are being fired and is away from any protest. There is no audio evidence of the larger crowd she was conveniently filmed at earlier.
Other items to note: She pays no attention to the people she knows, and focuses only on the cameraman. Odd.
The man in the white shirt appears to be the same man who shows up in the "protest" video smiling knowingly at the cameraman (same guy for both videos?), holding a measuring tape or something. She also in this film looks back guiltily at the cameraman to see if he is still taping. In this video she is wearing black pants. But at some point has changed into the jeans for the "kill shot". I guess the "blood did not show up with the black pants.
I read on the first day that she was unknown and only "called" Neda because she was becoming the face and voice of the protests. Then her name turns out to "really be" Neda. Yes, how convenient. Even people who claimed to know her said that it was her father in the video. I think he was meant to portray her father, but it was realized he was her music teacher. That info changed as well as her age many times.
I hope that it will be thoroughly investigated and revealed as the hoax it is. The truth is more important. But, since Obama and McCain have both used it for political grandstanding, I doubt that the MSM in the US will try to get to the truth. Ahmedinijhad can\'t because people will accuse HIM of making it up for political reasons. The only way it can be resolved and the truth come out is if an outlet like Al-Jezeera takes it on and takes it down and these people punished for such a stupid and highly charged stunt. I don\'t think they realized how far and how fast it would go. Or did they?
I am an Iranian and I also hate this government beyond most of you. I have been personally beaten, jailed and tortured by this government many times. There is no dispute that this government is murderer beyond most beliefs. For those of you unfamiliar with Islamic Republic history, shortly after the start of the Iran-Iraq war IR started liquidating political dissidents which included many teenage unmarried women. Since according to Islamic law execution of a virgin is forbidden, they would have them raped by guards the night before execution in a forced marriage. Just something to get you thinking about what this government is capable of, BUT, I am convinced that this video is staged show.
Beside the “problems” that the writer and others pointed out, there are several additional detail, that would rule out reality as one of the possibilities. Let me say again, killing young women is nothing new for this government but perhaps not this one!
For an untrained eye this may seem like a realistic death but in fact this is “the beautiful movie death” without any of obnoxious sights, sound and movements that a dying person would make when shot the way this lady is supposedly been shot.
Consider Following:
Ballistic Errors:
- She was shot from the front so (A) she was shot with a hand gun (B) She was shot by high powered rifle. Option (A) is out of question because then the shooter is less than 50 yards away. No commotion or pointing of people toward the shooter. This is where it gets better, if she was shot by any form of high powered rifle –also called Assault Rifles- available for Iranian forces, it would be either AK47 or G3. If shot from effective range she would be knocked off her feet backwards and in milliseconds after impact she would be on the ground! The fact that she is still up when the video starts is major flaw. They could not have caught her mid air.
- Since she must have been shot by a High Powered Rifle there should be no pool of blood in front of her, rather blood spatters behind her! If this video started just when she was shot, then the blood would have had no time to soak the entire path to the ground and then pool. Furthermore, when shot like that the exit wound is horrendously larger than the entry wound, and blood with no pressure –remember she was shot in the heart- would obviously flow from the larger hole which would be behind her. The blood pattern is consistent with it being poured from the front.
Now the gory parts:
When someone is shot in that point in body, it damages the heart, lungs and the spinal cord; lower body will be completely immobile or perhaps jerking from neural misfires. But the upper body and specially respiratory system would still be able to receive signals from the dying brain and one would see lots of incoherent groans and shallow breathing attempts, which then will cause the blood to be coughed up very violently spraying large droplets of blood upwards, not a gentle flow. This happens in most cases if the person does not die instantly. The respiratory system is the last one to stop working and so anything short of instant death guaranties you lots of sounds and sights. As we see this is not the case since she dies very quiet and with no attempts to gasp for air.
And the last minor issue missed by other, the facial expression of the bystanders visible in few frames between seconds 2 to 4 is more surprised than shocked if they would have just heard a bullet whistle by!
But if an staged show is what it takes to avenge all the murders they have done over the years, and if the actual girl is alive, so be it then (I wish they would have done a better job though!)
The most compelling evidence for the Neda movie not being a hoax is for me the story of the doctor at Paulo Coelho's blog: http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/06/24/the-doctor/comment-page-2/#comments
This gives the story a lot of credence as Paulo Coelho is in my opinion quite a respectable and peace-loving man. I cannot imagine him letting himself wittingly be used as a means for propaganda. On the other hand, what a coincidence that a doctor who happens to know Paulo Coelho personally is there to give medical assistance!
I still lean towards the hoax-as-propaganda version of this story (though less convinced than yesterday due to Paulo Coelho), but I agree with some of the very thoughtful and realistic comments: Perhaps it is justified in relation to the atrocities committed by the current Iranian government. But the means define the end and I'm not sure if a destabilized Iran is the best option in a region that is already very much in turmoil to serve US interests (well, not the US, but companies that make money with oil, natural gas, weapons and serving the US army hamburgers and pizzas).
And I don't like to be manipulated for the nth time. So, please forgive my suspicion. I hope for the girl's sake this whole thing was staged.
You have no idea about iranian gov the 16 years old girl that they hang just becouse she was talking to a guy (It is on youtube just search for iran hanging) and 1000`s of othere must be to good to be true too my mom and two of my sister where in jail for 3 years they bit my mom (who is 65 yeas old) on daily baises oh i forgot my mom must staged the hole thing
Fake, fake, fake, the lying eyes comment is right on; however having watched this literally over a hundred times with stop, pause, backview, pause, stop, my eyes tell me it was staged. If you watch the you tube video clip at :07 the "father" I mean art teacher.... literally removes something from under the hand of the guy in the white shirt, you can stop and pause and see a white long thing (using his hand size as a proportional measure) it is several inches in length. It is there and moves in his hand to the side of her face to time frame :11. Similarly in that time from :11 to :14 her OWN hand comes up with a red/maroon something in it, and for a split second the video blurs and way more blood flows out. Her name added to the backstory is too true as well.
Much too easy to blame the media shutdown on the inaccurate information... her name is Neda.. no last name. Then you get a last name which made her 16 years old. Okay wrong information, we need more of a full name, which we get now making her 27. Oh at that age you now get a bride to be... where are all the great photos the couple together?? The video was posted from the Netherlands!! There was a doctor who shot the video, or was he helping which makes him the guy in the white and some else shoting the vid...?
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2009-06-25 08:48:39
Hi Gary,
I didn't see the video. I read some headlines and have an idea what it was about. Your description, and the descriptions from your readers' comments are the only source of my information. (I barely care about US national politics and care nothing at all about foreign politics, so I devote zero time to it.)
When digesting a piece of news or history, I tend to avoid conspiracy thinking and opt for Occam's Razor instead. Every conspiracy theorist will eventually start talking about something that "should be" but isn't as a basis for skepticism. It doesn't matter if they are talking moon landings, JFK assassination or 911 it is always the same pattern.
It goes like this: Whenever X happens, Y should follow, since it didn't in this instance then X is a (cover-up, set-up, hoax, etc.)
This pattern is typically complemented with something like: The odds of A, B and C happening the way they did are so vast that it must have been set-up. Similar dogmatic reasoning from a conclusion is used by folks who think the complexity of the human eye equals proof or a super human being who can do things ordinary humans cannot fathom.
I have no idea what The Truth is and I don't have a problem with your skepticism and conjecture. You bent over backwards to describe your article as such. Fair enough.
The problem I have is that you left off the important part of the story; the "so what" part. So what do you think readers should do? Assume everything you said is true and assume every reader also agree; there is no debate. So what? What should each of those individuals do based on their belief in that truth? Is belief in this truth rationale for promoting interventionist foreign policy? Is it rationale for a national policy of regime change? How can an individual ensure their community is served by candidates who will support the right side of this truth?
My suggestion is that if you are going to conjecture, your points should flow from motive and lead reasonably to consequences, then, actions should be recommended to encourage or thwart those whose motives and methods which lead to those consequences, depending which side of a particular issue you are on.
So, back to me... :-)
I look at a situation like this and rather than following the conspiracy patterns described above, I ask, "How could that happen?" I'm not offering a solution because I don't intend to get dragged into debate over details of a situation I don't give a rat's ass about.
My investigation would certainly start with Sir Isaac Newton. What goes up, must come down.
This guy claims "blood was gushing out of Neda's chest" while she was still standing, before she was helped to the ground, and that she died "in less than a minute". He says a basij on a motorcycle shot her, and then the crowd captured the shooter, but let him go, because, " People didn't know what do to do with him"
"We heard a gunshot. Neda was standing a metre away from me... I saw blood gushing out of her chest"
The doctor who tried to save an Iranian protester as she bled to death on a street in Tehran has told the BBC of her final moments.
Dr Arash Hejazi, who is studying at a university in the south of England, said he ran to Neda Agha-Soltan's aid after seeing she had been shot in the chest.
Despite his attempts to stop the bleeding she died in less than a minute, he said.
Video of Ms Soltan's death was posted on the internet and images of her have become a rallying point for Iranian opposition supporters around the world.
Dr Hejazi also told how passers-by then seized an armed Basij militia volunteer who appeared to admit shooting Ms Soltan.
Dr Hejazi said he had not slept for three nights following the incident, but he wanted to speak out so that her death was not in vain.
He doubted that he would be able to return to Iran after talking openly about Ms Soltan's killing.
"I was there with some friends because we had heard that there were some protests and we decided to go and take a look," he said.
"Anti-riot police were coming by motorcycles towards the crowd."
Dr Hejazi said he saw Ms Soltan, who he did not know, with an older man who he thought was her father but later on learned was her music teacher.
"Suddenly everything turned crazy. The police threw teargas and the motorcycles started rushing towards the crowd. We ran to an intersection and people were just standing. They didn't know what to do.
"We heard a gunshot. Neda was standing one metre away from me. I turned back and I saw blood gushing out of Neda's chest.
"She was in a shocked situation, just looking at her chest. Then she lost her control.
"We ran to her and lay her on the ground. I saw the bullet wound just below the neck with blood gushing out.
"I have never seen such a thing because the bullet, it seemed to have blasted inside her chest, and later on, blood exiting from her mouth and nose.
"I had the impression that it had hit the lung as well. Her blood was draining out of her body and I was just putting pressure on the wound to try to stop the bleeding, which wasn't successful unfortunately, and she died in less than one minute."
Dr Hejazi said he first thought the gunshot had come from a rooftop.
But later he saw protesters grab an armed man on a motorcycle.
"People shouted 'we got him, we got him'. They disarmed him and took out his identity card which showed he was a Basij member. People were furious and he was shouting, 'I didn't want to kill her'.
"People didn't know what do to do with him so they let him go. But they took his identity card. There are people there who know who he is. Some people were also taking photos of him."
Dr Hejazi said he knew he was putting himself in jeopardy by talking about what happened.
"It was a tough decision to make to come out and talk about it but she died for a cause. She was fighting for basic rights... I don't want her blood to have been shed in vain."
He added: "She died on the streets to say something."
Dr Hejazi said he did not believe he could now return to Iran.
"They are going to denounce what I am saying. They are going to put so many things on me. I have never been in politics. I am jeopardising my situation because of the innocent look in her (Neda's) eyes."
I also thought it might be fake due to the inconsistincies, angles of cameras, etc, and Gary you bring up some very interesting facts and ideas. However i closely watched the 2 different videos again, and it appears they are legit, or at the least they seem to be taken at the same time. Perhaps would need a non Iranian doctor or coroner to look at it closer to check the blood and wounds etc.
Also, have you seen this strange video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Usv8zf_Zc
For the record, when I first watched it, just when it was released online, I was also shocked and even weeped some .... though I come from the days of Ogrish so am use to seeing things like that. However, so many questions are unanswered. I like to know things others dont normally ask about, for example, where is her Student ID? Other students that have died, have photos of their IDs all over the internet.
The attempted crackdown came as friends present as Miss Soltan died came forward to detail what happened.
Hamid Panahi, her friend and music teacher, told the Los Angeles Times how Miss Soltan was shot as they and two others were making their way to a demonstration in Freedom Square in central Tehran. Their car became stuck in traffic on Karegar Street and they got out for some air.
Mr Panahi said that he heard a distant crack and saw Miss Soltan instantly collapse to the ground.
"We were stuck in traffic and we got out and stood to watch and, without her throwing a rock or anything, they shot her," he said. "It was just one bullet."
He later heard other witnesses claiming that the gunman was not a police officer but one of a group of plainclothes officials or Basiji militia.
It certainly does raise the escalation of the "You're a liar" vs "No, YOU'RE a liar" war of credibility.
Here is what appears to be a well-known public figure, albeit a maker of stories, who is in no uncertain terms saying he was the doctor at the site of the murder and personally provided emergency medical services.
As a hoax, this would raise the bar quite a bit.
It doesn't change the video, backstory, or anomalies therein, but it does require a certain audaciousness on the level of Susan Smith. It is possible the man is lying "for the cause", and hoping it won't be uncovered any further.
We will see; we have to know Neda much better than we do now, and see if the backdrop of her existence is convincingly real, and that she is convincingly gone. The truth will come out, one way or another.
My oddsmaker probabilities would be changing right now.
I've been troubled by the empowerment of the Iranian opposition from this video ever since I first saw it, fearing it was either a deliberate manipulation or staged. Doubting it was part of the Basij M.O. to gun down a quiet observer amidst rock-throwing invective-chanting protesters nearby, I wondered who really shot her. I pissed off a great many friends and colleagues online by raising questions about it. Nonetheless, I still must consider it genuine until there's stronger evidence of a hoax.
The blood splattered near her feet as she is being laid down could have been from the exit wound, while the bullet could have propelled her backward until she stood behind the bloody puddle. And the blood trails are consistent with massive hemorrhage into her stomach, overflowing through her nose and mouth, first on either side. The facial movements are in keeping with a person whose brain is losing cerebral blood flow.
So, I'm still yet to be convinced it is genuine - and I've always had suspicions regarding the attached Neda identity - but I need a lot more evidence to reject it.
As someone who has seen a fair number of dead and dying people in my day, I see some physiological inconsistencies as well that bother me. Yet, I'm not willing to call it a hoax yet.
Gary, do you believe this part of the Dr's account?
" Dr Hejazi said he first thought the gunshot had come from a rooftop.
But later he saw protesters grab an armed man on a motorcycle.
"People shouted 'we got him, we got him'. They disarmed him and took out his identity card which showed he was a Basij member. People were furious and he was shouting, 'I didn't want to kill her'.
"People didn't know what do to do with him so they let him go. But they took his identity card. There are people there who know who he is. Some people were also taking photos of him."
So, where are the photos of the shooter???
"Dr Arash Hejazi, who is studying at a university in the south of England, said he ran to Neda Agha-Soltan's aid.......
He doubted that he would be able to return to Iran after talking openly about Ms Soltan's killing.
she appears to be holding that arm up and moving it around, she moves it near her face around the 10-14 second mark on this video, immediately before the blood appears on her face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYr2_V6R2xM&NR=1
Would her knees be bent like that if she had collapsed from a gunshot wound and was seconds away from death?
she appears to be holding that arm up and moving it around, she moves it near her face around the 10-14 second mark on this video, immediately before the blood appears on her face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYr2_V6R2xM&NR=1
Would her knees be bent like that if she had collapsed from a gunshot wound and was seconds away from death?
Oops, I hit the back button while trying to post this reposted the previous one by mistake.
Comment I found on youtube:
"Notice the passersby. They do not behave as though shots are being fired and is away from any protest. There is no audio evidence of the larger crowd she was conveniently filmed at earlier. Other items to note: She pays no attention to the people she knows, and focuses only on the cameraman. Odd."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYr2_V6R2xM&NR=1
Here's a weird coincidence, check out this video on youtube made in 2006, produced by a NEDA SOLTANI, Directed by NEDA SOLTANI
The video is titled "Blind Beauty" It is the story of the murder of a blindgirl.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYpmk2qkGeg
One thing that struck me about the Blind Beauty video are the eyes at the beginning. They reminded me of the eyes on the Neda murder video and how they turned upward to look right at the camera when she supposedly died.
Gary, as for the Dr. lying for the cause, Chalabi and the other "Iraqi exiles" were well known public figures, yet they told lie after lie about Saddam's "400,000 in mass graves, WMD, etc. The there was the "human shield" Christian minister/journalist who claimed to have been "shocked into reality" after going to Iraq to try to stop the invasion and finding out that Saddam minced people in shredders and put the minced bodies in plastic bags.
Neda's "fiance" gave 2 different versions of the story.
Version 1:
" Neda Agha-Soltanhad been caught up accidentally in the protests."
"Her fiance Caspian Makan told BBC Persian TV that Neda Agha-Soltanhad been caught up accidentally in the protests.
"She was near the area, a few streets away, from where the main protests were taking place, near the Amir Abad area. She was with hermusic teacher, sitting in a car and stuck in traffic," it quoted himas saying. "She was feeling very tired and very hot. She got out ofthe car for just a few minutes."
Version 2:
"Makan said that they had argued in the days before her death about her decision to attend the protests.
He said he had asked her not to go out for fear she would be arrestedor shot. "I tried to dissuade her from going out in the streets"
Monday June 22, 2009 Man: Woman killed in Iran protests wanted freedom
SHAYA TAYEFE MOHAJER Associated Press Writer
Makan, a 37-year-old photojournalist in Tehran, said he met the 27-year-old music student several months ago on a trip outside thecountry. The AP was unable to verify his statements independentlybecause of reporting strictures.
Makan said that they had argued in the days before her death about herdecision to attend the protests, which were part of the self-described"green wave" movement that claims hardline President MahmoudAhmadinejad stole his June 12 re-election.
He said he had asked her not to go out for fear she would be arrested or shot. "I tried to dissuade her from going out in the streets because I'd seen in my work as a journalist that, unfortunately, there are a lot of merciless behaviors," Makan said.
"But she said that our attendance would be worthwhile even if a bullet hits my heart," he said. "Unfortunately, that is how she died, a bullet hit her heart and her lung, and maybe 5 or 6 minutes later, she died."
Internet accounts say that Soltan's father was at her side during herdeath. But Makan said a white-haired man who is seen pressing on herchest in the video and repeatedly saying "don't be afraid, Neda dear, don't be afraid" was actually her music teacher.
She'd grown dissatisfied with her theology studies and had taken up music, as a pianist, he said.
They first met on a vacation in Izmir, Turkey, a town on the Mediterranean, on a vacation tour from Iran.
The circumstances of her death remain oblique apart from this account from a bystander: "A young woman who was standing with her father watching the protests was shot by a basij [pro-government militia] member hiding on the rooftop of a civilian house. He had clear shot [sic] at the girl and could not miss her.
"However, he aimed straight at her heart. I am a doctor, so I rushed to try to save her. But the impact of the gunshot was so fierce that the bullet had blasted inside the victim’s chest, and she died in less than two minutes."
The details surrounding Soltani’s death are as sketchy as her own story. She was 26, a philosophy student and a part-time travel agent, according to those who knew her. She was no rock-thrower at the vanguard of a movement for regime change but, according to her fiance, Caspian Makan, she was simply a young woman who may have ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Makan said Soltani had been in a car in central Tehran with her music teacher when they were caught in a traffic jam.
He said the pair had left the car to escape the heat. It was when she was walking down Karegar Street, talking on her phone, that the shot rang out.
A woman dubbed “The Angel of Iran” whose dying moments were seen around the world was deliberately targeted by undercover soldiers, her grieving fiance claimed last night.
Caspian Makan, 37, said Neda Agha Soltani, 27, was singled out by Basij paramilitaries in civilian clothing at an election protest rally.
He said he had desperately tried to talk Neda out of going into the streets but the student had said the protests were worth attending, “even if a bullet hits my heart”.
Mr Makan said: “Unfortunately, that is what happened. A bullet hit her heart and her lung, and maybe five or six minutes later, she died.”
Arash Hejazi Iranian novel and short story writer, literary translator, journalist, and physician. He was born in Tehran, Iran, in 1971. He is the Chief Editor of Caravan Books Publishing House and the Chief Editor of Book Fiesta Monthly for culture and art. He is best known for his novel The Princess of the Land of Eternity.
Arash Hejazi is an Iranian editor, novel writer and journalist. Born in 1971, Tehran, Iran, son of a university professor and a teacher, he graduated from medical school in 1996 and in 1997, co-founded an independent publishing house named Caravan Books in Tehran, where he was a senior editor and is the editorial director now. He has also been the editor in chief of two literary and cultural magazines; Kamyaab (2000–2003) and BookFiesta (2003–2008). The later was closed down by the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance of Iran in 2008, as a result of publishing a short story by the Italian writer Primo Levi. He is a member of Tehran Union of Publishers and Booksellers (TUPB) and was the managing editor of its journal, Sanat-e-Nashr (Publishing Industry), from 2006 to 2007. He was one of the nominees to receive the Freedom to Publish Prize held by International Publishers’ Association (IPA) in 2006. He is also a novel writer, whose most known novel The Princess of the Land of Eternity was shortlisted for two major Iranian literary prizes and has sold more than 20,000 copies in Iran since its first publication in 2003. He is now a postgraduate student in publishing in Oxford Brookes University.
I reserve the term imbecilic for explantions that show no capacity for critical reasoning and discrimination. Gary's fine article - most with which I disagree - is in no way imbecilic.
Now, a question for goTX to consider: do words fail imbeciles more than persons of intelligence and insight?
The fact the the Dr who just happened to be at the scene lives in the UK and is a vocal critic of the Ahmadinejad govt. makes the story very suspect, to say the least.
When the government of President Khatami finished its term and President Ahmadinezhad took office, they declared that thousands of corrupted books had been authorized by Khatami’s Minister of Culture, and so they cancelled the permissions to publish for hundreds of titles in only one year, which pushed many publishers to the verge of bankruptcy.
By now I would have imagined an in depth hour special on Neda on CNN, or 60 minutes, instead she still is much of a fill-in-th-blank as of a person, far as reliable research goes; everything we know of her is via heresay and anecdote. That the doctor gave two different stories only increases my skepticism.
I notice in the mass media, and in the oratory of prominent politicians, Neda is now a definite person, who is a definite symbol of the Iranian people's protests for representational government. Nobody is backpedalling, or even giving themselves an out for the possiblity this is a staged video. They are entrenching themselves ever more so, and vesting their credibility in the presumptive truth of this woman and her tragic demise.
I wonder if, and how, they will continue their inertia even if the Neda story begins to unravel in a very public way. The media also has something to lose, so there may be a great suppression of any such development from them as well.. we'll see . . .
The following Saturday, shortly before 7pm, he was sitting in his office with three friends when they heard a commotion in nearby Kargar Street. They went to see what was happening and found riot police — some of them on motorcycles — charging towards a huge crowd of protesters, firing teargas and lashing out with their batons. It was terrifying, he said. Everybody started running. But amid the pandemonium he noticed Neda Soltan. She had been caught up in the swirling emotion of the moment. He saw her shouting “Death to the Dictator”
Doctor tells how Neda Soltan was shot dead by Ahmadinejad's basij
Martin Fletcher
But amid the pandemonium he noticed Neda Soltan. She had been caught up in the swirling emotion of the moment. He saw her shouting “Death to the Dictator”
“all of a sudden we heard a blast. I asked my friend what it was,..."
As Miss Soltan was being taken to hospital another commotion erupted about 20 metres away. A crowd of demonstrators had caught the basij — an Islamic volunteer militaman — who shot her from his motorbike. He was a big, strong man in his forties, clean-shaven except for a moustache.
“I heard him shouting, ‘I didn’t want to kill her. I didn’t want to kill her. I meant to shoot her in the leg’.” The crowd were furious. Some were trying to lynch him. Others were saying: “We’re not killers. Don’t harm him.”
All agreed that there was no point in handing the man to the police so they simply took his identify card and let him go.
According to friends and her family, the 26-year-old university student was not a protester but was stuck in traffic near a large demonstration when she was killed.
FYI the name of the anonymous doctor who was convienintly at hand is Dr Arash Hejazi and he has given interviews to all the international media who were interested.
You know nothing about medicine or filming, so why don't you stick to what you know and go collect your reward from the ayatollahs.
In this video Neda's fiance says she was "killed in a place where there were no clashes", and that "a few minutes later she passed away on the way to hospital".
The following Saturday, shortly before 7pm, he was sitting in his office with three friends when they heard a commotion in nearby Kargar Street. They went to see what was happening and found riot police — some of them on motorcycles — charging towards a huge crowd of protesters, firing teargas and lashing out with their batons. It was terrifying, he said. Everybody started running. But amid the pandemonium he noticed Neda Soltan. She had been caught up in the swirling emotion of the moment. He saw her shouting “Death to the Dictator”
Shaping a country: list of Iranian authors June 17, 2009 - (5 days before the Neda video)
Arash Hejazi originally studied to be a medical doctor in Tehran. His thesis in medical school was about "the influences of storytelling on children's anxiety disorders." ........ A staunch advocate of free speech in Iran, Hejazi is openly against the Iranian government's censorship of books.
There are a whole bunch of people milling about in the video but the camera pretty well FOLLOWS the guy in the EASILY IDENTIFIABLE blue striped shirt from WELL BEFORE the gun shot.
The cameraman was obviously trying to keep Neda and her father in the field of view while panning the crowd. Neda looks back at the camera man several times.
Actually, I agree with Arash Hejazi that government censorship of literature is a bad thing. I also believe that artists who allow themselves to be used as stooges in a CIA-USAID-UK-Big Oil propaganda campaign is a bad thing.
The good doctor also claimed that Neda body was picked up and whisked away in an automobile.
Didn't he also say that there was no exit wound in her back?
If that is then the case, the bullet from Neda's body can be matched to the firearm allegedly taken from the Basiji :Open and shut case.
Since the rioters have photos and the ID of the alleged assassin, why not post it to YouTube.? One sage has already suggested that the photo would probably be released just as soon as the Pentagon releases all those 85 security camera videos from the 747 crash.
In the interview with Wolf Blitzer, Iran's ambassador to Mexico claims that Neda was shot in the back of the head and that the bullet did not exit.
He said the spent bullet was not a caliber consistent with firearms used by the security forces. That would be 9mm. , wouldn't it?
From the Iranian ambassador's comments, an autopsy must have been performed and that they have her body in possession?
There are also claims by the secular rioters that Neda'a parents were evicted from their homes. Wouldn't that lead to speculation that the home is undegoing a forensics search by police?
Things keep getting curiouser and curiouser.
Of course, Wolf Blitzer never asked those lead up questions.
MEXICO CITY, Mexico (CNN) -- The United States may have been behind the killing of Neda Agha-Soltan, the 26-year-old Iranian woman whose fatal videotaped shooting Saturday made her a symbol of opposition to the June 12 presidential election results, the country's ambassador to Mexico said Thursday.
Though the video appeared to show that she had been shot in the chest, Ghadiri said that the bullet was found in her head and that it was not of a type used in Iran.
...Gary, as for the Dr. lying for the cause, Chalabi and the other "Iraqi exiles" were well known public figures, yet they told lie after lie about Saddam\'s "400,000 in mass graves, WMD, etc. The there was the "human shield" Christian minister/journalist who claimed to have been "shocked into reality" after going to Iraq to try to stop the invasion and finding out that Saddam minced people in shredders and put the minced bodies in plastic bags....
And what about that ubiquitous Industrial Grade Plastics Shredder that Saddam Hussein allegedly fed his political enemies through "feet first? It was never found.
A US veteran of the 2003 Iraq invasion told me that the plastics shredder and the WMD were hauled off to Syria before the 2003 invasion. The guy really believed that story. He said they "were shown pictures."
Richard Perle was still peddling that hoax just two years ago on C-SPAN , as moderator Steve Scully sat there and lapped up that lie as if it was the "gospel truth!"
By Arnaud de Borchgrave UPI Editor at Large From the International Desk
AMMAN, Jordan, March 21 (UPI) --
A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq withJapanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head." -----------------------------------
I contacted the Assyrian Church of the East, asking for confirmation. I received this reply from Bishop Soro:
From: A.....@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:17:47 EST Subject: Re: Can you confirm this story?
Johnny: The only thing that I can confirm is that Kenneth Joseph, IS NOT a pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East nor has he been associated with the Assyrian Church in any shape or form.
Bishop Soro
Secretary General of Interchurch Relations Assyrian Church of the East
-----------------------
Here's an investigative report about "Kenneth Joseph"
Well, I certainly don't think the US was behind any of this.
And the justification for Iraqi fiasco is peppered with completely made up documents, imaginary operatives, intentionally ignored reliable evidences, inflammatory stories also too good to be true, etc. So any "new" evidence uncovered about that whole Bush Admin driven "Parallax View" level conspiracy doesn't surprise me at all. But I don't see how it is relevant to the Neda question.
I will guess that the Iranian ambassador is just as clueless as to the nature of the Neda incident, and whose kneejerk reaction is "The United States is behind it", and winging it with whatever rumours he may have gotten down his own pipeline as he speaks.
We are all second level newsdata analysers here; it would be great if someone actually went to the core of this mystery and found out once and for all whether the whole world is being scammed or not.
For me, a dispositive conclusion to this question would be:
1.Video interviews with her parents and siblings about Neda, her life, their reaction to the murder, and their experiences laying her to rest (wakes, funerals, autopsies, burials, etc.)
2. Perhaps a video interview of the alleged coroner, and his relaying of the autopsy.
3. Some detail of her home life, and childhood, interviews thereon (location, neighbors, childhood friends, primary school teachers)
4. Interviews with her coworkers, fellow students, official documents, student id's.
5. She was supposed be a tour guide, for what company, anyone been to one of her tours?
Things like this would assuage me in my skepticism. I am beginning to feel a bit like a 9/11 truther, which I am not.
Unlike the truthers, I am looking for a resolution to the question, either is she a real person killed as depicted, with a real life and a real life history, or we are going to keep getting stories from unnamed "correspondents", incognito acquaintences, or the same two or three on-site "witnesses".
Most recently a report from the Guardian, filed by "A correspondent in Tehran", and relaying commentary from unnamed neighbors about how the Soltan family was forced out of their apartment by the Iranian government, and that "The Guardian was unable to contact the family directly to confirm if they had been forced to leave."
The Guardian of course was unable to contact the family to confirm anything else about this story.
I agree with Gary's approach to solving this Iranian "Whodonit." And having a "body" is the only way to determine that it is not a hoax.
And while Neda's alleged death is not a wartime "massacre," her name seems to be on everyone's lips and the graphic images are being used by some for a call to war. Another Joan of Arc , they are saying.
In dealing with international hoaxes, the Germans had the right idea back in 1943 upon discovering the mass gravesite of over 25,000 Polish POWs in the Katyn Forest. By convening of an international forensics team that exhumed the bodies, Germany proved that Stalin's Bolsheviks ordered the 1940 mass murders. But the world's press, including the NYT, laid the blame for these mass murders upon the Germans:Eight German soldiers were tried at Nuremberg and hanged, when Prosecutor Robert Jackson and the Nuremberg judges knew that the Soviets were responsible for these crimes.
The festering lie of Germany's guilt was finally exposed in 1989, when Russia(Gorbachev) officially admited guilt for Katyn.
Her death first became suspicious after revelations that she was killed by a small caliber pistol -- a weapon that is not used by Iranian security forces. Her death first became suspicious after revelations that she was killed by a small caliber pistol -- a weapon that is not used by Iranian security forces.
The small "caliber pistol" claim leads to use of a .22 cal. with sound suppressor. Maybe a Steyr .22cal. A .22 cal. bullet in the back of the head is fatal.
If the Iranians know the caliber, then they must have done an autopsy.
Select "Window", "show A/V controls", select playback speed - 1/2 speed, view in full screen
Watch her left hand carefully, see how it moves around, she appears to be holding something in her hand, she moves it close to her face immediately before the blood appears.
If she was killed by a small caliber bullet to the back of the head, this means she must have been executed at some other location after the video was made, maybe to keep her quiet.
What struck me as very odd about this video was the timing of the person with the camera. It seems to me that if a shot came from a group of security police charging the crowd on motorcycles, the first reaction of the person with the camera would be to immediately turn in the direction of the danger and duck for cover (surival instinct). Instead, the camera begins filming in the opposite direction (away from the danger) and focuses on a woman who appears to be shot, even before she falls to the ground. Where is the panic and chaos associated with a random gunshot on a crowded street? Very strange.
I don't believe the sniper scenario for a second. If she was shot in the chest by high-powered sniper rifle, she would have been knocked down immediately.
"We heard a gunshot. Neda was standing a metre away from me... I saw blood gushing out of her chest"
Dr Arash Hejazi, who is studying at a university in the south of England, said he ran to Neda Agha-Soltan's aid after seeing she had been shot in the chest.
Despite his attempts to stop the bleeding she died in less than a minute, he said.
Are you ready now? Let's roll it. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NASR: Her name is Neda, the facts surrounding her life and her death difficult to verify. She appears to have been a young student who joined thousands of her countrymen to voice her disapproval of Iran's election results.
Eyewitnesses say Basij militiamen hiding on a building roof top shot Neda in her chest, silencing her forever.
A man who appears to be her father desperately calling on her to open her eyes, a stranger begging her to stay awake. "Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid, Neda," the man says. But Neda doesn't respond. She dies right there on the streets, another protester capturing her last moments on a cell phone camera.
And just like that, Neda, who came to the square thinking she's one voice among thousands, turned into the voice of an entire opposition movement. Neda, which means, "the calling," is now on millions of flips across the globe, on the Internet, in specially- designed avatars, a young life cut down in its prime, one woman's gripping story speaking volumes, a grim reminder of the price Iranians could pay for freedom.
OCTAVIA NASR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her name is Neda. The fact surrounding her life and her death difficult to verify. She appears to have been a young student who joined thousands of her countrymen to voice her disapproval of Iran's election results.
Eyewitnesses say Basji militiamen hiding on a building roof top shot Neda in her chest, silencing her forever.
A man who appears to be her father desperately calling on her to open her eyes.
A stranger begging her to stay awake. "Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid, Neda," the man says.
But Neda doesn't respond. She dies right there on the street, another protester capturing her last moments on a cell phone camera.
Just like that, Neda who came to the square thinking she is one voice among thousands, turned into the voice of an entire opposition movement.
By Ken Ballen and Patrick Doherty Monday, June 15, 2009
The election results in Iran may reflect the will of the Iranian people. Many experts are claiming that the margin of victory of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the result of fraud or manipulation, but our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.
While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.
"The National Endowment for Democracy has spent millions of dollars during the past decade promoting 'color' revolutions in places such as Ukraine and Serbia, training political workers in modern communications and organizational techniques," Timmerman wrote on the right-wing newsmax.com.
"Some of that money appears to have made it into the hands of pro-Mousavi groups, who have ties to non-governmental organizations outside Iran that the National Endowment for Democracy funds."
Please note that this comes from a very involved right-wing critic who personally knows the expatriate Iranian community. It is impossible to know how much government money went to these groups, since Congress has purposely exempted the National Endowment for Democracy from having to make public how it spends taxpayer money. Clearly, Congress should begin to ask some tough questions about funding for Mousavi's "green revolution" before any more Iranian protesters are killed.
One other clue is worth considering. The State Department somehow knew that the social-networking site Twitter had intended to close down for maintenance earlier this week during what would have been morning in Tehran. So, as The Washington Post put it, the State Department asked Twitter to delay the scheduled maintenance "to avoid disrupting communications among tech-savvy Iranian citizens as they took to the streets to protest Friday's re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad."
At first glance, those of us deeply involved in the new technology thought this was great, a serious affirmation of our own importance. But, to the ayatollahs, the State Department's intervention sent a clear signal that the Obama administration was siding with Mousavi's protesters. Ahmadinejad's government, militia and police had all the internal communications they needed. Only the protesters stood to benefit.
Even more compelling, the benefit went to a particular group - those among the protesters who speak English and particularly those Iranian-Americans working with the National Endowment for Democracy. According to news reports, Twitter does not accept input in Farsi.
HOLMES: ...... So, the question is now, is it possible that Ahmadinejad really did win this thing?
Our next guest is Ken Ballen. He says that is a distinct possibility. He is president of Terror Free Tomorrow, the Center For Public Opinion, a nonprofit group that does some polling. He joins us now from Washington.
Sir, the reason you say it is a possibility is because your organization did one of the last, one of the most extensive and also transparent polls just a couple weeks before the election in Iran.
What did your poll tell you?
KEN BALLEN, TERROR FREE TOMORROW: Well, our poll told us, T.J., that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President Ahmadinejad, was ahead by a 2-1 margin over his nearest rival.
"I want you to know that there are disturbing inconsistencies in Neda's fiance's Facebook account. For example, he didn't say anything when people posted a wrong Neda pic in his FB account. Recently, he shared The Guardian article about Neda's family that stated:
..."The police did not hand the body back to her family, her funeral was cancelled, she was buried without letting her family know..."
This contradicts his own words in his interview with BBC:
"We worked so hard to get the authorities to release her body. She was taken to a morgue outside Tehran. The officials from the morgue asked if they could use parts of her corpse for body transplants for medical patients. They didn't specify what exactly they intended to do. Her family agreed because they wanted to bury her as soon as possible. We buried her in the Behesht-e-Zahra cemetery in southern Tehran. They asked us to bury her in this section where it seemed the authorities had set aside spaces for graves for those killed during the violent clashes in Tehran last week."
Most of video he shares on his FB come from outside of Iran. It seems strange that he doesn't share his own video since he listed "film making" as one of his activities.
New revelations about the death of Neda Aqa-Soltan, who became a symbol of post-election street rallies in Iran, begin surface.
Neda, 26, became an international icon in recent days after graphic videos of her death grabbed the attention of world media outlets.
She was shot dead on June 20 in an alley away from the scene of clashes between security forces and demonstrators in Tehran.
The man who drove her to hospital said in an interview that her death looked “highly suspicious”, claiming there were no security forces or Basij members nearby.
“People were standing, there were traffic, and people were walking by. Suddenly I saw a girl put her hand on her chest and fall down, and blood was coming out of her mouth and nose,” he said.
The claims have added to the confusion already surrounding the shooting, which has been blamed upon Iranian security forces by the Western media hype.
Her death first became suspicious after revelations that she was killed by a small caliber pistol -- a weapon that is not used by Iranian security forces.
Iranian security forces have dismissed the reports out of hand, asserting that they did not open fire on protestors during the sporadic unrest.
“Policemen are not authorized to use weapons against people,” Tehran Police Chief Azizallah Rajabzadeh said on the morrow of Neda\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s death.
However, conflicting accounts by a doctor who claimed he tried to save Aqa Soltan\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s life in her final moments have further complicated the matter. New revelations about the death of Neda Aqa-Soltan, who became a symbol of post-election street rallies in Iran, begin surface.
Neda, 26, became an international icon in recent days after graphic videos of her death grabbed the attention of world media outlets.
She was shot dead on June 20 in an alley away from the scene of clashes between security forces and demonstrators in Tehran.
The man who drove her to hospital said in an interview that her death looked “highly suspicious”, claiming there were no security forces or Basij members nearby.
“People were standing, there were traffic, and people were walking by. Suddenly I saw a girl put her hand on her chest and fall down, and blood was coming out of her mouth and nose,” he said.
The claims have added to the confusion already surrounding the shooting, which has been blamed upon Iranian security forces by the Western media hype.
Her death first became suspicious after revelations that she was killed by a small caliber pistol -- a weapon that is not used by Iranian security forces.
Iranian security forces have dismissed the reports out of hand, asserting that they did not open fire on protestors during the sporadic unrest.
“Policemen are not authorized to use weapons against people,” Tehran Police Chief Azizallah Rajabzadeh said on the morrow of Neda\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s death.
However, conflicting accounts by a doctor who claimed he tried to save Aqa Soltan\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s life in her final moments have further complicated the matters.
For those folks who are tired of watching the talking heads of Amanpour and Blitzer on CNN, check out LinkTV's MOSAIC telecasts on DirectTV's channel 375, @ 9:30 p.m. CDST , Mon-Fri.
I think it's a counter-propaganda campaign by Iran. The Neda hoax is so widely accepted as fact around the world that all Iran can do is put a different spin on it.
Ahmadi-Moghaddam said the death of Neda Aqa-Soltan, who became a symbol of post-election street rallies in Iran, was a "prearranged scenario," Press TV reported.
The police chief accused Arash Hejazi, a doctor who says he tried to save Neda's life in her final moments, of fanning the flames of the western media hype, the TV station said on its website.
brief comment from Neda's Music teacher who was with her
( I compared stills of the guy in the Press TV video with the guy who was with Neda in the shooting video and the one taken before the shooting, they look very simliar)
The music teacher says in the interview, "There was no shooting here, there were no security forces in this street." "There were around 20-20 people in this street. One shot was heard and that bullet hit Neda"
the Dr said,
Hejazi, 38, told The Times of London he was in his Tehran office at 7 p.m. last Saturday when he heard a commotion on the street and went out to see baton-wielding riot police charging toward a vast crowd of protesters.
Ahmadi-Moghaddam said Iran had asked Interpol to issue an arrest warrant for Arash Hejazi, a doctor who fled to London after being identified as a witness to the death of a young woman, Neda Agha-Soltan, who became an icon for the protests against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's disputed re-election.
There’s a guy with a tape measure in the video of Neda and her music teacher that was supposedly taken “moments before her shooting”. He’s measuringthe scene, looking at the cameraman.
In cinematography, a focus puller or first assistant camera (1 AC) is the member of a film crew responsible for keeping the camera’s focus right during a shoot. Often this requires pulling the focus with afollow focus device during the take without looking through the camera (the camera operator is doing that), to compensate for camera or subject movement. The depth of field may sometimes be very small, aslittle as 1/4 or 1/8th of an inch (3–6 mm) in extreme circumstances. Most people on the set will agree that the focus puller’s job is among the most technically difficult during production.
To accurately focus on the subject, it is common to measure the distance (usually with a tape measure or, more recently, with electronic tape measures using lasers) between the camera and the subject being focused before the take.
mis15.ncarts.edu/film/151/cinema_08/film_crew.pdf
FIM 151 - FUNDAMENTALS OF PRODUCTION AND CINEMATOGRAPHY
The principal creative artist on a movie set. A director is usually (but not … A key member of the film crew, stationed by the camera, whose job it is … By using a tape measure, reference marks and a good sense of estimation, an …
What follows is a list of expendables that all film shoots require:
Sharpies Spring clips Camera tape (1” black & white) Bounce board Paper tape (1” black & 1/2” color) Show card Film cans Gels Bags Diffusion Cores Assorted batteries Canned air/Dust off Black wrap Lens tissue Swiss Army Knife Tape measure
Look at this I can only find this guy Armin Abedi on Canadian media. They have the wrong Neda photos in the background, but Neda’s “friend” Armin doesn’t notice.
Armin Abedi, who knew Neda Agha-Soltan and is a cousin of her fiancé, Caspian Makan, spoke by CBC’s Heather Hiscox on Monday. The Toronto-area employee said he heard the couple wanted to unite in marriage this summer.
By Toby Harnden in Washington Published: 12:01AM BST 16 May 2007
John Bolton, who still has close links to the Bush administration, told The Daily Telegraph that the European Union had to "get more serious" about Iran and recognise that its diplomatic attempts to halt Iran's enrichment programme had failed.
Such a strike would only be a "last option" after economic sanctions and attempts to foment a popular revolution had failed
Johnny Asia those are some awesome links and info about the tape measure, etc. Very spooky.
However, something new has surfaced, which is an i.d. card alleged to be that of Neda's killer. It is on iranian.com and other sites, and is said to have been authenticated by the doctor at the scene. Yet there is no formal public statement from him, and the story is missing from the mainstream media. More oddities.
The "Dr" at the scene is a liar. He was in the news back in 2005:
"I am concerned about my family. The presidential election is near. They are doing everything to keep things under control," he said. - Arash Hejazi, the Dr. in the Neda video, in 2005
Here's the Wikipedia page of the so-called killer:
-----------------------------------------
Abbas Kargar Javid From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This page has been deleted. The deletion and move log for the page are provided below for reference.
12:59, 21 July 2009 J Milburn deleted "Abbas Kargar Javid" (Currently not any reliable sources linking this person to the killings. WP:BLP.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbas_Kargar_Javid
--------------------------------------
Shaping a country: list of Iranian authors June 17, 2009 - (5 days before the Neda video)
Arash Hejazi originally studied to be a medical doctor in Tehran. His thesis in medical school was about "the influences of storytelling on children's anxiety disorders." ........ A staunch advocate of free speech in Iran, Hejazi is openly against the Iranian government's censorship of books.
no it was real. neda agha soltan was killed by the Government and Ahmadenijad knows it, but just like he said himself how can the holocaust be proven if there is no foreign media.
Do you believe the Holocaust was fake? People hate him so much because he straight up lies into everyones face. Ahmadinejad is Hitler reborn, if he gets more power over the regime and stays in power he is definitely dropping an atomic bomb on israel. A smart person wouldnt but Ahmadinejad is not smart and thats a fact!
I invite anyone and everyone to check out the analysis at http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/Who_Killed_Neda.html
From the blood-stained right hand of Hamid Panahi to the rectangular splotch of blood on Neda's thigh, to the fact the hospital asked to keep a portion of her femoral bone, to the self-contradictions of Hejazi, Panahi and Makan -- it appears she was killed.
There were FOUR people in her car: Neda, Hamid Panahi -- and who else?
I pray the truth comes out to prevent loss of life based on a LIE as presented to the public thus far.
I find it interesting that everyone that she knew just so happened to be there are the same time.... I'm a student and I do not go out to places with my teacher, let alone talk to them if I just so happen to see them.
I figure: who cares if it is fake or real, Let her die, even if she didn't really. don't you people have better things to do than sit around watching videos hundred's of times and debate whether its real or not. This is like that stupid moon landing hoax. Come on people, where is your evidence.
If it is fake, then provide me with evidence!! despite that i think it is a hoax, I still believe it is real as it is the only form of evidence!
Suppose it is fake, what are you going to do about it? It's done and dusted. Believe what you want, in the end it comes down to the election. if you think your government is a cold blooded killer, go right ahead; vote them out.
If you believe this this was a hoax, then build a mother fucking bridge and get over it.
I find it interesting that everyone that she knew just so happened to be there are the same time.... I'm a student and I do not go out to places with my teacher, let alone talk to them if I just so happen to see them.
I figure: who cares if it is fake or real, Let her die, even if she didn't really. don't you people have better things to do than sit around watching videos hundred's of times and debate whether its real or not. This is like that stupid moon landing hoax. Come on people, where is your evidence.
If it is fake, then provide me with evidence!! despite that i think it is a hoax, I still believe it is real as it is the only form of evidence!
Suppose it is fake, what are you going to do about it? It's done and dusted. Believe what you want, in the end it comes down to the election. if you think your government is a cold blooded killer, go right ahead; vote them out.
If you believe this this was a hoax, then build a mother fucking bridge and get over it.
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