Topic: Constitutional Issues
The American Community Survey Is this another example of government overstepping it's constitutional bounds, and also violating our 4th amendment right to privacy?by David S
(libertarian)
Monday, June 22, 2009
The US constitution authorizes the federal government to conduct an enumeration (census) every ten years. However, nothing in the constitution authorizes government to ask questions beyond a headcount. And even that is authorized only once every ten years. But the American Community Survey is conducted annually, and it asks for personal information that goes far beyond what is needed for the enumeration.
Sales figures for agricultural products produced on the property,
Type of plumbing in the home,
Number of cars, vans and trucks kept at the home,
Type of fuel used for heating the home,
Cost of electricity, gas, water and sewer used at the home,
If food stamps were used in the home,
Ownership of home,
Rent,
Market value of house,
Real Estate taxes,
Insurance payments for property,
Mortgage payment,
Citizenship,
Level of education,
Disabilities,
Employment status,
Employment address,
How do you get to work?
What time do you leave for work?
Employer,
Business type,
Type of work,
Wages, salary, commissions, bonuses and tips.
As you can see these questions have little to do with the enumeration required by the constitution. Under the tenth amendment the federal government only has the powers given to it by the constitution. But no section of the constitution authorizes government to ask such invasive questions. The questionnaire also violates the privacy rights protected by the fourth Amendment. And the fine for refusing to answer is now $5000. So citizens who refuse to comply with this unconstitutional survey will be subject to a $5000 fine. It sounds outrageous to me. What do you think?
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Posted By: Jake, the Champion of the Constitution
Date: 2009-06-22 12:08:54
Sure, I'll fill out the form.... for $5000 in constitutional dollars of silver :)
Where is the $5000 fine stated? Could you post the link?
I got a kick out of the time required - 38 minutes. That works out to 190 million man-hours, not counting illegal immigrants who will probably elect to "take the fine"
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws" - Ayn Rand
At first I didn't see an issue with the questions.
Then I read about the $5000 fine and compulsory answering.
That's the part that's not constitutional. Asking questions, anybody can do. Forcing you to answer them is wrong. Especially when they are so intrusive.
My understanding is that some will receive a short questionaire and some at random will receive the long one.
Last census, I received the short one. Even with the short one, I modified some of the questions and added answers of my own like: 'other' or 'none of your business' under last year's income. I didn't get no fines. I did answer them. It didn't say I couldn't add more options. On some questions I even wrote: "this race stuff is very confusing, I am neither white, black nor asian. I am a hispanic but you guys say that Hispanic is not a race. So what am I? Based on your stupid census survey I am going to declare myself a race-less hispanic". I went a little further and wrote: 'maybe you should put a color wheel so that I can mark which color is closer to my skin'. The whole thing was ridiculous.
So if you received the long questionaire, do some civil disobedience and add answers that are not part of the choices.
Maybe on 2020, they will ask what positions you like during sex or wheather you have anal or oral...or if you can still get it up...Too much government intrusion...
In my opinion there is no constitutional authorization for government to ask the questions, so they shouldn't do it at all. But I agree with trd; the worst part is the fine. And the dangerous thing is that once they set the precedent then they can ask even more intrusive question, such as the sexual practice questions trd suggested. They could also ask some other winners like;
How many guns do you own? What are their serial numbers?
Do you smoke pot?
Have you ever committed a crime?
The gun question would be like creating a de facto registration scheme. And the 2nd and 3rd questions would violate the 5th amendment's protection against self incrimination. But since they obviously don't give a damn about the constitution they might do it anyway.
The race questions are also troubling if one remembers that Japanese Americans were sent to prison camps during WWII.
Other than the unnecessary expenditures, I don't see anything wrong with asking questions as long as they are anonymous and voluntary and they telt i. You can't prevent me from asking your sexual preference. Is up to you to answer, lie, tell the truth or simply telling me "is none of your business".
"You can't prevent me from asking your sexual preference. Is up to you to answer, lie, tell the truth or simply telling me "is none of your business".
trd my friend, you aren't the government. There should be no restrictions on what you can ask, only on what the government can ask. The constitution is all about limiting the power of the federal government and protecting the rights of the people. The constitution puts the federal government in a box with only a few powers. If we let it out of that box it can grow and grow until it assumes dictatorial powers. In my opinion we should not let it out of the box by even 1 inch.
Ok I get it now! You are right. When I ask those questions I am just annoying you or nosy. When the government asks those qestions that could be entrapment. If I am an undercover and ask you: "wanna buy some weed?" And you pay, that would be entrapment because if the undercover was not there to offer you weed, maybe you would not buy it. So when the government asks these questions, there could be entrapment for gun ownership registration, etc... Thanks for clarifying.
Posted By: Steven A. Rosile
Date: 2009-06-25 09:45:18
I just googled the OMB control number after finding the references to the Privacy Act and the Paperwork Reduction Act at the very end of the Questionairre (linked to the above article). These acts require any request for information of any kind by the federal government to clearly state whether the information requested is required by law (and cite the law) or voluntary. I found that there was no such statement and also that the validity of this form expired 5-31 -08. The forms failure to state this clearly is itself a violation of the law of the PA and the PRA (IRS forms also violate these laws as they do not state if they are required by law and cite the law so requiring).
Apr 1, 2008 ... Went to OMB website and looked up this form, OMB no. 0607-0810, and it expired, 05/31/2008. Called the number, 1-800-354-7271 and talked ... notoacs.blogspot.com/.../more-people-saying-no-to-acs.html - Cached - [link edited for length]
I completely agree with David S. The government is way overstepping their boundaries at this point. Why do they even care what time we leave for work. I heard on the radio today that they are thinking about removing the tax that we pay on gasoline and trying to tax us per mile that we drive. GPS systems will be put into everyone's vehicles so that this can be tracked. So now the government wants to be able to keep track of everywhere we go. Our president wants to control our healthcare so they will have access to all of our health records. They are now buying into the automotive company. Does anyone see a trend here? COMPLETE GOVERNMENT CONTROL! That's just a little frightening. And what is even more frightening is that we are allowing this to happen.
Happily a bill has been introduced to remove the penalties for refusing to answer questions, aside from what the constitution requires. It is H.R.-3131. So far it has only 5 cosponsors, so please urge your congress critters to cosponsor it.
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