Mandatory Military service and the effects it would have on society
If the United States of America passed a bill requiring mandatory military service to all people upon leaving high school, what would be the effects on our society? by P Hedt
(libertarian)
Monday, December 15, 2008
It would raise patriotism and educational standards. It would make citizens take a higher interest in world affairs and politics. It would make society in general stronger, both physically and mentally, and it would make our government officials less trigger-happy. Foreign countries would be less likely to attack America and it would become impossible to take our great country over. Our society would be completely reformed back into a strong nation again.
Upon leaving high school men and women are required, by law, to join the military for at least two years. There is no choice in the matter; if they don't go they get the same rights as a felon. Yes, when a person goes into the military they lose certain rights for a little while, but is that necessarily bad? No. If they have never had their basic rights taken from them they will never place as high a value on those rights, or on the sacrifice their ancestors made to give them those rights. It is a growing problem in America for people to take their rights for granted. Take peoples rights away temporarily and people start to value what they have more; and they start to value their country more. Patriotism will be on the rise.
The men and women that leave high school will have to get an assessment test on their knowledge and intelligence levels. Naturally, they studied hard in school so that they could place high and choose what job they would have; so they could choose where they would be on the battlefield. Of Course, they (and their parents) would take school more seriously they do now, their futures would depend on it. These days a high school diploma is just a pretty decoration you get after twelve years of being babysat. People would become more serious about how their children were taught. How much money and supplies would schools receive in order to teach their children? A lot more then they do now. How much respect would teachers finally receive? A lot more then they do now. Hoe many children would get lost in the shuffle educationally? A lot less then they do now.
After selecting or being placed into a field, the people would go to basic training. This would install discipline, physical fitness, pride, and self-esteem. It would teach them that they could achieve anything they set their minds to. How many people in America could use those traits? Our society would shed the flabby Athenian traits and become a well oiled Spartan machine. How many Americans could have benefited from those four traits when they were first starting out in life? How far would America be today if we were all physically and mentally fit when we first started out?
After going through basic training, they would be required to serve at least two years in the armed forces. In that amount of time, they get to travel the world, learning about other cultures and world events. They gain a wealth of knowledge from their travels. They learn that the rest o the world does not have it as good as we do, and to not take our great nation for granted. They carry this knowledge about world events and cultures with them to teach their children, making the world less America centric to Americans.
Because people would be required to become physically fit, (in order to survive in the military) obesity levels in America would drop causing medical problems associated with it to drop. In addition Americans would be near impossible to surprise because they would all be knowledgeable of combat techniques. No one would dare attempt an invasion, because every man women and child would know how to defend themselves.
The presidents children are in the military; congresses children are in the military. How fast would they be to go to war with the knowledge that their children would be deployed? Not as fast as they were willing to in the past. The government would defiantly become more willing to look at other options before leaping headfirst into a major conflict. There would be more protests from congress if the president went crazy and decided to charge into a foreign country.
The effects of making military service mandatory are numerously good. A chain reaction would take place and American society would reform itself. We would become less ignorant of the world around us. Fewer people would burn flags and take America for granted. American government would be less likely to jump into a war. The children would not be lost educationally and schools would receive better funding. Obesity levels would drop dramatically, reducing health problems associated with unhealthy lifestyle. America would become stronger, mentally and physically due to a chain of events created by making military service mandatory.
Did you like this article? If you did, Thumb It! 557
thumbs so far
The views expressed
in this article are those of P Hedt only and
do not represent the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates.
P Hedt is solely responsible for the contents
of this article and is not an employee or otherwise affiliated
with Nolan Chart, LLC in his/her role as a columnist.
I took three days of military jail during my military service in France in the early 90s for taking a 72-hour leave during an election and not bringing back the proof that I had voted.
From there, I moved from being a radical free-market conservative to Libertarian. A few years later, I became an anarchist.
I have also left France and, ever since, I am doing my best to collect citizenships and passports for my kids so that they have a better chance to avoid the military slavery. Obviously, the American citizenship is not a prime target!
Government is crime and it is always good to know that those who want to kill human beings legally can always join the Army.
That is complete non-sense. You want our kids that are being subjected to 12 years of government indoctrination to be submittet to 2 more years of slavery, servitude and brainwashing? Forced military service is the state ownership of its citizens. Slavery is supposed to be abolished by the Constitution. Forced military service is slavery.
With regards to the children of those in Congress, most of them are already grown up. Those children who will be serving will be placed in specific non-life-threatening positions in the military with no real risk and given a preferential treatment. The children of most Congressmen will NEVER go to war.
Trigger happy? The Government will always be trigger happy. The World Wars and the Vietnam War happend under forced military service and all Governments were trigger happy nevertheless.
Patritism is not necessary a good thing. Patriotism could bea disease.
If you want your children to go to the military, it should be THEIR choice. Not your choice, not my choice and most certainly not the Government's choice.
As bad as the U.S. is, I feel that it is the least bad with regards to freedom. Maybe I am naive in thinking that way but I feel there are still some freedoms left here to enjoy while they last. What other places you had in mind? Please give us suggestions.
As far as I know the only place with real anarchy is Antartica - but who wants to live there? Also the other place right now is Somalia but the state of anarchy has been replaced by the tyranical rule of warlords.
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2008-12-15 07:24:38
Hi P Hedt,
Your idea sounds like a great plan to provide incentives for the best and brightest along with those who champion individual liberty to leave the USA to its Spartan death-training camps.
Why not put high school grads in leg irons and make them clean up the trash along the road or build roads through primitive back-country? I mean, if you consider humans to be the property of the state, why waste them on things like making it less likely for foreign countries to attack the USA? In case you've been asleep for the past 70 years, that really isn't a big problem for us. Why use all that government owned manpower for unproductive purposes? The slaves to the state should at least be used to "do work that Americans will not do" displacing the illegal immigrants in the produce fields. Maybe a shackled group could even be loaned by the US Military to private corporations to flip burgers or collect shopping carts from parking lots. Not a saggy pants among them. American shoppers and burger munchers would be so proud.
I think you are being very short-sighted. Once you decide that individuals belong to the state, using them for military service is a pretty lame primary purpose. Think big man, you're talking about enslaving every young person in America. Don't limit your vision to the military, THINK BIG!!
Posted By: Mrs. Fire Eater
Date: 2008-12-15 07:42:36
This is a Libertarian? No wonder I'm a Republican. I mean, this was downright confusing until I read the fire eater comment and now I know this is just a very tiny thinker. Thanks, JFE!
I'd like to use my rented gov't whore for... hm... takin' out the trash. I hate that job. And doing the laundry, and... well, that's it. I guess I'm a pretty tiny thinker, too.
trd, I have no other suggestion. Right now I am in Canada. My kids are safer there than in the US since there is no tradition of draft, or military service. Well, that may well change. I lived 8 years in the USA and I don't think there is more freedom in the USA. The idea that the President of the USA is the "leader of the free world" is pure military propaganda.
When reading the article, I thought the writer was ironic. But, I am realizing he might not be and he may actually believe his words. Maybe P Hedt could clarify this point.
If he really believes in his words, let's hope he will have the decency to volunteer before having his kids killed for government crooks. Also, I would hope his kids will precede the kids of those of oppose military service.
I didn't said that US has more freedoms. I said that I think is the least bad on freedom restrictions. If Canada works for you, then good. It is all about choices. But I didn't know that Canada was planing to do a military draft since you were stating that it may change the tradition of no draft.
Now with regards to military alone, then the only country with no military force other than thier local police is Costa Rica. They have no draft and no voluntary military either. But in the event of a foreign invasion, I am pretty sure they will use their local police. So the same people that will give you speeding tickets will be those who will defend their nation against invasion. It seemed like a nice place that at least appeared to be free, but I have only been there for one day about 15 years ago so I really can't do a good comparison. On the other countries that I have been (about 20) I think U.S. is still the least bad.
Entrepreneurs in the online Sports booking or betting industries have moved there becaue of ther lack of regulation. So maybe Costa Rica is more free than US or Canada, but there is no way to know until we actually live there.
For now my first choice is still the U.S. but I could consider Costa Rica in the near future.
We may think the grass is greener on the other side but ¿how do we know for sure? We may move to greener pastures only to realize that it may even be worst. Then you ads all the respective government immigration laws that makes it difficult to really move to your place of choice. So most people are stuck where they are born as if they had a contract enslaved with the birth state without even agreeing to such contract.
If you fear a military draft in Canada, maybe your kids could start learning Spanish and move to sunny tropical Costa Rica!
Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emanuel proposes 3 months of mandatory service for everyone between the ages of 18 and 25. Charles Rangel has written legislation for 2 years of mandatory service for everyone between the ages of 18 and 41. In both cases the service could be community service as well as military.
So now I have to ask; what is the difference between mandatory service and involuntary servitude? Let me answer my own question; there is no difference. Mandatory service is involuntary servitude.
The 13th amendment banned slavery and involuntary servitude. That was a very good thing and because of it Obama can be the president of the United States instead of a cotton picker on a Georgia plantation. How ironic it would be if he passed a law which in effect overturned that amendment.
Great article. Now to the part where they don't want to go because they don't want to shoot a gun.. For those we should have civil service. Same difference, no weapons. Working instead inside a combat related field, they could work in the VA Hospital, care for the elderly, work in child care centers etc.. Just a thought. I am from Germany, we have mandatory service.
Posted By: Andrew Hughes
Date: 2009-01-21 03:11:42
Mr Hedt,
While I agree that physical fitness and mental discipline are very desirable qualities which can be achieved without a military training, the only real consequence of a draft would involve killing more poor, brown people in Iraq, Afghanistan and maybe soon, Iran and Pakistan. After the pain and mental anuish, the destruction of American families, the maltreatment of veterans who have been shipped back to "The World" after witnessing horrors beyond our imaginations, all we are left with is another lost generation akin to that during the Vietnam era. Would it not be more productive and humane to bring forth a new generation of educated men and women by reforming the way they are taught in school ?
I have seen young men and women in Minnesota that had passed through the farce that passes for "education" and I found their brainwashed minds incapable of independent thinking and a woeful lack of knowledge about the world outside of the U.S..When I asked them what they were going to do after high school, the majority told me that they wanted to join the military and protect their country. A patriotic thought, but sadly ignorant of the fact that America does not need their protection. It's the rest of the world that needs protection from them.
We constantly are willing to sacrifice our liberties and freedoms for the sake of security. Manditory Millitary Service is the same concept and would lead to a total loss of liberty. We would be virtually undefeatable but have virtually no freedom. I say (and I know its over quoted) 'give me liberty or give me death"
This is bizzarre! I'm 18 and just about to graduate from high school. The idea of mandatory service is not even close to freedom, it goes against everything this country stands for. Put yourself in my shoes, nobody forced you into the military, you got your choice, your freedom, don't claim to be doing your country a favor by standing in the way of mine.
-kutlessgirl01 (A.K.A. the very person your tring to imprison)
Please, remember what Spartan life was like and how Sparta collapsed. Their system was not humane or sustainable. The role and purpose of people in military service takes taxes, it is not to generate/create money/wealth to sustain the economy. This will likely lead to more than just manipulating statistics (i.e. change unemployment rates). It seems much like the communist/socialist/totalitarian state plans that have destroyed so many nations before.
The only real hope is returning to our (American up until the 20th Century) roots in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and following His command to love God with everything that is in us and our neighbor as ourselves. Christ is the only foundation upon which free society can exist. If you have not read the Bible, please, take time to read it. If you want help in understanding it, listening to Paul Washer or John Piper at www.sermonaudio.com could be useful.
If you desire liberty, seek Christ. We are all slaves of sin until we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. The only hope apart from Him is the Lake of Fire, which is undesirable, or some temporal carnal pleasure, which also leads to the wrath of God in Hell. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Repent and believe in the Christ Who was sent to redeem His people (i.e. His bride). He spared no expense, He gave everything. Oh, to know the love of the Lord. The peace and joy from Him are too wonderful to be able to fully describe.
If you believe already and are not growing in the knowledge of the Truth (God's Word), read, pray and fellowship with a local assembly of believers where God's Word is central (not just another reference book or footnote). If you do not see the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance) in your life and you are thereby not living the Gospel before others, call upon the Lord for aid and seek His kingdom first. If we do not preach the Gospel of our Lord crucified, dead, buried and raised from the dead according to the Scriptures, then we are asking for freedom to be taken away. Remember, until born again, people are still sinful by nature and only feel comfortable in sin. The preaching of the Gospel and the quickening of the Spirit of God's people is the way God tells us that the dead (in spirit) are brought to life and given a new nature (heart) that delights in pleasing Him. What a blessing for Him to have given us such a wonderous part of His ministry of grace. Teaching and preaching repentence, unto salvation, is something that cannot be done once we die and are in Heaven. Praise Him evermore!!!
You have to wonder though, wouldnt some of the things Hedt says happen? like our country would be in better shape and more considerate of what we get involved in. Iraq and Afghanistan probably wouldnt have happened if Bush had to have sent his own daughters to the Middle East. Its all a matter of balance. Mandatory military service is everywhere. South Korea has it, Germany has it, why dont we have it?
(Im a senior in an AP government class so please correct me if my view is flawed)
Posted By: Donald Meinshausen
Date: 2009-11-08 18:39:32
The libertarian's dramatic beginning was a draft card burning according to Radical's for Capitalism. I organized this event to show that we are not slaves of the state. If there is ever a draft again then I would organize a revolution. Do not call yourself a libertarian. You are a fascist and I ask that every libertarian spit in your face unless you are joking.
I have to partially agree, only in a more specfic vein. I personally feel that there should be Federal service in exchange for franchise and the ability to hold office. if you dont want to serve that is fine. absolutely, own a business be rich be happy. but dont vote and dont run for office. As heinlein said in starship troopers (the book not the movie) "its a matter of civic duty, those willing to die for the body politic have shown they are willing to do what is best for the whole over what is best for the individual." Those are the people that should have the right to vote and hold office, not lawyers and the rich. they have no true conception of how their choices affect the many, Nor do they seem to care.
It is interesting to hear all of the arguments against this idea, and the lack of complete knowledge surrounding the Armed forces. Many of these arguments discuss enslavement of Americans, and the endangerment of people who do not want to be a part of combat. There are over 150 different kinds of jobs in the Army alone, and only 24 of these jobs are considered combat positions. The Army has jobs in nearly every field available in the civilian world, and these jobs come along with physical, mental, social, and networking skills that are unrivaled in any other type of education or occupation. It is unfortunate that people misunderstand the valuable experience that military service can provide for growing men and women, and our country would be much more successful if people realized the opportunities they were missing.
Posted By: terry jernagan
Date: 2010-02-27 14:32:03
Great idea that's the way it should be you want to live in this country you should have to serve it sure won''t do any harm make them grow up take responsibility freedom is not free. If Obama would have served maybe he would know how to lead
This is a joke right? How dare you call yourself a libertarian and then advocate that the freedom of an adult 18 year old citizen be trampled upon because the goverment wants them for 2 years. That is not freedom; that is not choice. We might as well live in communist China if the state is going to decide what I do w/ my own life, even if it is just for 2 years. In the 2 years I would be wasting my time working for Uncle Sam I would be halfway through my undergrad degree, studying what I choose and following whatever passions I may have. If I have a passion for civil service or military service, then I will seek that out. But if I have a passion or desire to be an accountant, then you're delaying me from reaching that goal. And when you stand in my way of pursuing my choices, my right to freedom, you are going against everything this country stands (stood?) for.
No thank you, sir. I'll keep my freedom and choice intact thank you very much.
I agree that a 2 year education in the armed forces would not only help protect our nation but it would provide some learned behavior that is lacking in today\'s society. First, self-discipline. Secondly, personel responsibility. Thirdly, structure. I went into the military right out of high school for 4 years and ended up staying for 20. Contrary to a lot of misconceptions the military is not slave labor. Some people are just to ignorant to understand that. Most of the time it was a 9 to 5 job that required the wearing of the uniform. You learned not to burn the flag but salute it. It has flown for you for 200 years. People can surely find the entrance to America. I hope some can find the exit. Its the only institution that has got it right WITH government running the show.
Taking our rights for granted is not necessarily a bad thing, because those rights ARE granted (by God, if you are a believer, or by way of natural rights otherwise). They ARE our birthright as Americans. They do not need to be earned; a "right" granted by government after the person in question jumps through certain hoops (military service, payment of a fee, et cetera) is not a right at all, but a privilege. That is not to say that it is not the duty of the citizen to protect those rights (not only his own, but those of others, including those whose viewpoints he might find reprehensible), but no specific action shall ever be required to exercise a right.
Military service is not slavery unless one has not joined freely (volunteer service would more properly be called indentured servitude). To be conscripted is to be enslaved. If you don't have sovereignty over your own person, then you are the property of whomever makes the decisions for you.
If someone else has the right to demand that I serve them, whether that person be a plantation owner or the federal government, then they own me and I am a slave. The fact that they treat me relatively well (such as in a 9-5 job) while denying me the right to leave is not the issue. A slave that is treated well, but who cannot opt out of the arrangement at any time, is still a slave.
Funny that one of the posters above brought up "Starship Troopers." What better example of fascism exists in fiction? Rights that need to be earned are PRIVILEGES. If we need to earn rights, we HAVE NO RIGHTS.
America stands for freedom. It was founded upon that principle by men who did not even support the idea of a standing army. Certainly, they did not confuse military service with liberty; they made it quite clear that we are endowed with inalienable (permanent and unquestioned) rights by our creator (whomever you think that may be). Even if you are an atheist, you get the idea-- these rights are bigger than any rules that man can make, and no man or government can ever supersede them by any means.
I have the greatest respect for those who CHOOSE to serve in the armed forces, but conscription is the polar opposite of liberty and any country which stands for liberty.
No libertarian would ever support mandatory servitude-- this one opinion, in and of itself, is a disqualifier for being a libertarian. It indicates clearly a worldview that is wholly incompatible with libertarian thought. I think the original author should think long and hard and consider whether he really means the answers he gave in the questionnaire-- I think he probably does not believe the answers he gave, because to get a score in the libertarian range, one must answer that he believes in rights that shall not be questioned by government, which is clearly not what he believes if he thinks those rights can and should be denied during involuntary servitude or for the rest of the person's life if he refuses to serve. He clearly does not believe that rights (including, but not limited to, those protected by the Bill of Rights) supersede all acts of government and law. That's kinda the main thing in libertarianism.
Of course, I may be reading the author's words wrong. Perhaps he meant that a person who declines military service would have the same rights as a felon-- meaning a person who has completed whatever sentence due process has imposed-- which is to say, all the same rights he started out with before he was found guilty, without exception.
I served 22 years the the US Army. It was the best thing I have done in my life. I have seen the world . And yes I have been in combat. And I love the U.S.A. WE sould all go over seas for your country.
I have believed this for years; that U.S. citizens should either give two years of military service or humanitarian service in order to receive any state or government help for college funding. I have three grown children who do not understand what they have since it has been given to them so easily (not by me but by government). They are basically good kids but just take so much for granted. (Yea, I guess we all did when we were young.) But isn't that what is wrong now? We took too much for granted? I am in my late 40's and have had it pretty easy. Not rich, not poor but have had everything I need. Not really paying attention to the House and Senate are doing. Not really knowing or caring about the issues of the day (until just in the last few years). Didn't even vote for the first time until recent years (yes, I am ashamed). All this and yet I graduated valedictorian and have a college degree. I fear that there are many like me because I simply 'didn't care' about my country, I cared about me and my own. Of course I regret my lackadaisical attitude but if I had been co-erced to serve my country in some way, maybe I would have WOKE UP a long time ago and not let things in congress get as bad as they have.
You people make me want to throw up. Your the first person to reach for a free handout. The one that stands by and looks on while an innocent person is mugged, or won't identify a gang member that killed an innocent person. Your the first person that calls the police when your house is invaded, or calls the military if America gets invaded but you won't stand up to defend it yourself. Your the person that hides in the closet when threatened or waves the white flag of surrender. If left up to you we would have a King / Queen and be speaking English, or a Dictator and be speaking German, or a Prince and be speaking Japanese. You are the one that gives our freedoms away every day to the Govenment because you won't stand up for yourself. Yes, I thank the Lord every day I don't have to depend on people like you to defend us and our freedom.
How in the heck are you a libertarian? One of the biggest core values of libertarianism is not forcing anyone to do something. You are proposing that people be forced to do something regardless of what they want or believe. This is morally wrong and the American people would never support it (remember the draft opposition in the 70s).
You also seem to be a bit naive.
You seem to thinks that our leaders would be more hesitant to get us into war if their own children were at risk. Consider that many politicians are old enough that their children would not be eligible. Those that are would use their influence to get their kids out of service or at least in low-risk situations away from danger.
You cannot force patriotism. Although everyone would react differently, in general, forcing a person to do something they don't like would further polarize them. Some of the biggest protestors of the draft and Vietnam were former servicemen who were forced to serve. Forcing someone to do something they would otherwise want to do could also turn them off. America is a very individualistic nation. People don't like to be forced and they may oppose simply because they are being forced.
Forced service may improve overall health and eduction. However, we have had incentives to do well in school for years, yet parents and students still seem apathetic. It is a well accepted fact that people who do well in school will earn more but many students still fail or don't try. Health may improve for individuals for their service. However, once they are out, they are free to sit around and eat garbage all they want. Two years will not guarantee a lifetime of health.
I had another idea after I posted my first comment.
Mandatory military service would not be indicative to education or freedom. Most would do their service as lower level enlisted. Basically, they would be trained to take orders and shut up. This would affect everyone differently, but it might condition a lot of people to become sheep. They will have left their service having been trained to take orders without question and will be more prone to accepting whatever the government tells them.
Many point to Israel for how well mandatory military service has worked. However, few people consider the vastly different cultures at work. Additionally, much of Western Europe lacks the problems you claim we have. Yet, most of W Europe doesn't have any kind of draft, let alone universal service. Only Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Sweden have conscription.
Posted By: Ross Williams
Date: 2010-04-08 09:46:01
One of the biggest core values of libertarianism is not forcing anyone to do something.
It is?? Since when?
Libertarianism is only necessarily built upon the liberties - as defined - in the given society one is talking about. A US libertarian would have different ideals than a Canadian libertarian.
What you would seem to be talking about in "not forcing someone to do something" is instead anarchy. And that is definitely not liberty. The government forces us to do things all the time, from obeying speed limits and traffic lights, to attending a legitimate educational institution for a minimum number of years, et cetera.
And none of those are incompatible with our definition of liberty - which is written in the Constitution. We have a Constitutional democratic republic; the Will Of The People has a legitimate expectation of being enacted [that's the 'democracy' part] through those who represent us [the 'republic' part], and so long as that Will doesn't tromp on an accepted interpretation of anyone else's rights [the 'constitutional' part].
Without a nation, and the government it is run by, you wouldn't have rights to worry about being tromped on. A military is defined as a legitimate function of our government. If the Will Of The People decides it wants to have compulsory military service, then - as a libertarian who supports the liberties as defined - that's part of what "Being American" is all about.
The Constitution does not grant citizens the right to avoid serving their country, and apart from the 2ndAm "well-regulated militia" thing, it's pretty much silent on the subject. You could make a better argument, instead, that the Constitution presupposes military service.
Now, on to the rest of your quibbles.
It's clear you don't like this idea, but you're having a difficult time articulating why. In your first reponse, you claim it's a bad idea because of all the contrarian responses individuals will have to it. Yes, people will knee-jerk in opposition.
In your second response, you claim it's a bad idea because individuals will not oppose it, but thrive under it and become the yes-men sheep with no minds of their own. Yes, that will occur.
You're right. On both counts. [And I'm leaving out other specifics in the interest of brevity].
But as I remind people: you don't get points for being right. You get points for being pertinent.
What you are neatly forgetting is that we already have the condition you're talking about. People are already divided into groups of knee-jerk contrarians and Big-Brother guvmint worshippers. And, because of our neatly faux-dichotomized political landscape, the two camps switch position every time one party loses the leather wing-backed chair.
It's even my contention that not a one of them are anything but a batch of sheep, ready to "yessir" any idiotic declaration from the heads of their various parties, and they are only the knee-jerk contrarians to what the other party wants.
If what you think will happen because of universal compulsory service already exists without it, then your criticism of universal compulsory service is baseless.
You may still dislike it; you may dislike it for the same reason I dislike strawberry ice cream - "cuz I do"; it's entirely an irrational, personal thing, and that's fine. But your reason for disliking it doesn't hold water.
I see no issues here and since the normal process would include reasonable exemptions for objectors, hardship and the like to be in place it would be good to get all young persons into such a program. I would eliminate exemptions only to keep certain classes of people out and make sure the disabled get to fairly participate. It would like make our leaders less likely to send us to war if their children are on the line. But under certain international treaties we have signed this would be illegal so on that ground would point out it should not be done.
But the Federal Courts already rules and said the Selective Service and Draft are legal as is Stop-Loss so the legality constitutionally is set as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with manditory boot camp and two years of service but instead of military service, give them and option of military or civil. Also there should be a trade off for two years of service completed successfully a person should get funding for two years of college or a lump sum cash to get started in life, like buying a car and renting a place. Our country Has grown soft and is without direction. This is due to our young and there parents. The young because they are young and lack direction and focus. The parents because they are caught up in their own lives and day to day struggles.
There are many Americans that take their freedom and those who fought for it for granted. Why is America for getting the values of society, and where they first originated from? We would not be who we are today without the Military. The thought of war is poignant, but the thought of America being a weak country is terrifying, not to mention disheartening. Freedom may have the word free in it, but our freedom is far from free. There are millions throughout America’s history that have fought and gave their life for the freedom that we enjoy so much today. Our ancestors, brothers, sisters, dads, and moms have and are fighting in the war that keeps our great nation liberated. What makes anyone of us any different? Why is it fair, for everyone to enjoy the freedom our country offers, but only certain ones pay the price? We as a nation need to come together and standup for what we believe in, our freedom, which allows us to walk among the streets speaking freely as we please. The benefits America would grasp from mandatory military service would reflect the country in every aspect, and bring our great nation together again as a whole.
I completely agree with you, I am a single mother of two. The oldest being female and the youngest being male. And, I beleive that military would be good for both of them. Don't get me wrong I love both of my children more then any thing in this world. It would do both of them some good after high school, and again don't get me wrong, I raise my children with strick rules in my house. I would have to say that I'm a kind of strick parent. But, children will be children and they do sometimes break those rules, but as a good parent I show them now at a young age why they have to follow rules, and make sure they know the consequences. I think that the military will help shape them to be good civilized Americans, alwell as highen their education, job skills, and over all become a better person. I think that alot of people missunderstand the mandatory military service. If passed it doesn't mean the young person is going strait to war. I beleive that they want to shapen the American youth, but have the extra bodies if needed. In the long run the youth will benefit greatly from the service.
I loved thie article and I am not a Libertarian nor a Progressive. I am Right Wing. However, I think that the points made in this article are poignant!
I kick myself in the ass nearly every day because I was too foolish to go into the service.
My own son would be so much better off today if we had a mandatory military for when kids quit school. Not a choice, but a service to maintain the country we have all grown accustomed to living in.
Come on people be logical about this. We are not creating a slavery state! We are teaching our children that they absolutely have it made right here in the good ol' USA!
I may not serve in the military (nor have a I ever) but I still have to do pay taxes for those soldiers, even if I don't want to, but I should have to serve as well?
The United States spends more money on defense than the next ELEVEN nations combined! Yet will still need more soliders, eh? Of course you hear from people that no amount of money is too much for defending the country- Wake up and smell the coffee. Remember the ancient common sense adage that too much of anything is bad for you, that includes military funding and service too.
"Oh, but people like you complain when something like 9/11 happens!" More people die of second hand smoke each year than 9/11 and that's every single year!
"Because people would be required to become physically fit, (in order to survive in the military) obesity levels in America would drop causing medical problems associated with it to drop."
Well, first of all, 27% of 18 year olds and adults are obese to begin with. It would take a lot more than 8 weeks to get them in shape. And what about all the soldiers in the military who smoke, and aren't in combat jobs where they get a lot of exercise?
For those of you who served in Vietnam, didn't you notice how draftees make very crappy soliders. They don't want to be there, and thus wouldn't do their jobs that well.
I agree, mandatory military right after high school would be a good thing. It could be the one thing that would make people get out in the streets and protest against unnecessary and, yes, even hostile foreign interventionism. Nothing else seems to; the country as a whole seems barely aware there is a war going on.
My question is why on earth would a young person volunteer in our current military? They know this war is wrong and is being fought for all the wrong reasons. They know it has nothing to do with this country's 'national security'. For the life of me, i cannot understand why young kids are enlisting in a war the country as a whole has seemingly forgotten about?
Your all nuts there would be an outcry in this country do you know they want to make all american citizens. i mean all men and women 18 to 42 serve 2 years . there is no way it will every happen without a revolution. your all idiots.
I think this author has the right idea but is a little to broad in saying that everyone has to join the military at 18. I have shared this general opinion for sometime but have some different finer points to it. When someone graduates from High School they can either join the military(Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, Coast Gaurd) or the Peace Corps or they could go to college and work towards a degree. Then after they graduate college they would join a previously listed service.
I joined the army becuase I was homeless. I was homeless because i didn't want to take responsability for my own actions and take care of myself. I firmly believe that if I hadn't joined the Army i would be dead in a gutter somewhere.
I look at todays society with all these people trying to be famous for being retarded (Reality TV shows) and I am disturbed that these are the people that kids look up to these days. All the sports stars are not stars at all. So what they can run fast or throw a football far. The people our children look up to should be the people that insure that our nations citizens are able to wake up in the morning and watch those stupid reality tv shows or wager with a friend ona a sports game. Those people are the military. With our them we would be nothing and have nothing.
A few years in the military would definaltly shock the system. All these people who talk about slavery need to sit down and shut up. You may have the right to your freedom of speech but you sure are using it like a bunch adolecents who barely know how to use google. Go back to your caves and live in your close minded worlds.
Slavery is where you take someone against thier will and make them work for free in inhumane environments. The military being volunteer or otherwise is so far from slavery to see that comparison makes me laugh alittle. When did the slaves get paid for thier work? When did the slaves get thier college debt paid off. When did the slaves earn money for a college degree if they didnt already have one? They didnt. They lived in shit huts wearing rags working 12-15 hour days for free. Having high school graduates and college graduates join the military is the so far off from slavery i think you all must have been drunk and high when you wrote these posts.
P Hedt, how can you be a libertarian and advocate forced servitude? "If they dont go they have the same rights as a felon". This goes against everything libertarians stand for! Personal liberty, economic freedom, limited government, etc. I joined the Army under my own free will and thats what makes our armed forces great, its an all volunteer force. It should stay that way.
JCR...You are such a fucking moron. Join the army so they can 'legally kill people'? You should probably put some thought into the words that spew from your filthy french mouth. Being in the military does not give you the proverbial 'license to kill'. We go through rigorous training to ensure that we know the consequences of every single action of every single day. Taking the life of another in armed conflict in order to protect yourself and your comrades is not even remotely similar to murder or legally killing. As an American, I think I can speak for behalf of the citizens. We don't want you and your family here contributing to the pussification of the American populous.
How the hell are you a libertarian? And what do the words of the 13th amendment to the Federal Constitution mean to you? "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." You must share Harry Reid's understanding of the word "voluntary". FYI, I'd say you are an Authoritarian, judging by your complete lack of understanding of the concept of liberty.
Posted By: Roger Stearns
Date: 2010-12-11 09:14:17
I do not want mandatory military service foisted upon my children and I am willing to go to war to preserve this choice for them. The thought of their lives wasted and ruined to promote a megalomanic's goals is abhorent. The motto of my former military unit was "De Oppresso Liber", Free the Oppressed. Your proposal would oppress my children, and that thought makes me very angry!
Posted By: Col Steven B. Vitali USMC (Ret)
Date: 2011-01-07 22:41:37
Military Service would be great if you had a military force large enough so all could serve. Unfortunately, our military is rather small and with the budget cuts, the force structure will be reduced even more. Since all cannot serve, who will serve? Those that want to join will be told they cannot. Those that don\'t want to join will be forced to join. Will those of privilege that attend college get deferred while those that are poor will be force to join if their registration number comes up? With a draft, many who do not want to serve will be force to serve out their contracts. Those that perform poorly will not be allowed to leave the service until the end of their contract. I have lived under this scenario. If you want to see the greatest force have the fastest decline into mediocrity, then have a draft with a small size force. It sounds great, but like most governmental ideas, it does not work.
Posted By: Army First Sergeant
Date: 2011-01-08 01:11:49
It's very disappointing reading some of these responses. How are lives wasted by serving in the military? Some of you really need to think about what you are typing before you type it. You are complaining about the people that go out of their way to defend you, while you are sitting your fat butt on the couch eating donuts and watching the biggest loser (look in the mirror). If you don't believe in this country or the government or the people that are serving this fine country just let me know when you get your uhaul and myself and a couple of hundred Soldiers will come help you move to Canada. For those of you who are complaining and have a job, thanks for paying for my home, vehicles, and all of the incredible things my family owns because of the Army and your taxes.
"How are lives wasted by serving in the military? Some of you really need to think about what you are typing before you type it. You are complaining about the people that go out of their way to defend you"
I believe no one is defending you. I get your point but trey no to sound petic and try to sound more reallistic. Is any other country attacking or threating U.S? (other than terrorist). I lived in N.Y. For 3 years. I can not say that A know America very good but I know this for sure, since i have lived outside of U.S. and traveled around the world I can tell from other perpective. Your country is not defending you or any one, e.i don't you see what happened in Irak ? Your military forces invaded another country without any clear or true reason; in addition, America have no duty or responsability over others country. Irak have more and bigger problems since U.S took over. And again, U.S Army was fighting for you? come on..... I'm just sharing my point of view. Some who has different view of the same problem.
There is nothing libertarian about forcing people to serve in the military. I am disgusted that anyone who would score "libertarian" here would write an essay advocating fascist ideals. You must have lied on your survey! Get a time machine and go live in Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy or Spain, or Communist Russia! That's where you belong!
A noted military writed said there are two types of armies, conscripts or mercenaries. But we have a "volunteer" military.
If we need an army, a conscript army is to be preferred since it is less likely to develop into a professional caste that threatens liberty and less likely to be carelessly exposed to danger by our "leaders".
The concept should be national service, not military service. Many people have a legitimate belief that killing other persons is wrong and should not be forced to violate their conscience. They can still do useful things for our society as teachers, in the Peace Corps, or in other ways.
Private armies such as Blackwater/Xe should be absolutely prohibited.
The argument for some form of universal service rests not on the issue of national defense but to find a more constructive alternative than spending time in the failed schools and colleges that monopolize the youth of our country. As for "force," attendance in our government run schools is required for all children. How is that different from the proposal here? Why not require something better than school or as a supplement?
I would recommend the possible age for such service be studied more. Our present junior high schools are a wasteland, and remember, almost half of the eligible children in many cities and rural areas do not even attend high school. Many would benefit from a more exacting and stimulating environment BEFORE graduating from high school. And for many, they would learn more, and gain more useful skills, than they currently get in school.
Recent discoveries of how our brains develop indicate that children from 10-15 are at their peak learning capacity and they are getting llittle in today's schools at those ages. My study of history reveals that almost all the great inventors, engineers, and scientists gained their edge and education from being apprenticed out at the ages of 12-14 for a seven year stint at some occupation. With that work experience they went on by self-study to do great things. Many of today's internet and software pioneers followed a similar route outside of school hours, following their passion and learning the mechanics of this new web based world.
The military is one of the few well functioning parts of our government and they have a well developed system for training and developing their men and women. The mistake is to think of them as primarily an offensive weapon. Their use in foreign entanglements is the error of our political leaders, not necessary result of their existence. After all, there is absolutely no need for Obama to be sending troops to the Middle East or for bombing the people of Libya.
Military training might be better viewed as training for civilian life and adjustments could be made to that effect. That way the volunteers in our armed forces would receive a technical training that enhances their employment opportunities far more than a high school diploma.
One of the problems with today's youth is the delayed almost permanent adolescence allowed them which wastes the most important learning and maturing years of their lives. The idea of getting them out of public schools and the frat scene in college and into a practical learning environment has considerable merit and deserves serious study.
A few things come to mind regarding the original post and comments here.
-I kept having images of scenes from Kubrick's film, 'Full Metal Jacket' - which essentially showed the intention and result of boot camp (for the Marines, yes, and for soldiers to go onto the battlefield', though - still pretty intense entry into a killing machine mentality').
-My father served 27 years in the Air Force, and I saw first hand both the thrill of it, the technical education and awareness he gained from it; as well as the life long frat boy community, the drinking, the intense fear he felt at 22 (he chose the Air Force b/c there actually was a draft, and he knew what was happening to the kids in Vietnam at the time). He was an artist when he entered the military. He wasn't after.
-France has the option (or did 15 years ago) of either 1 year military or 2 years social service.
-I think it would be incredibly important for all kids at 18 to take a year or two in the real world before entering college, just so that college is actually something chosen, and for conscious reasons - as opposed to some competition or thing to do becuase it's the next thing to do. (crazy expense to teach kids how to stress about getting good grades (rather than to learn for the sake of knowledgge), and to learn to drink a ton of beer upside down). I think if the spirit behind this idea is to support the country, then why not instill 1 year of mandatory SOCIAL SERVICE, and nothing to do with military. This will teach kids to appreciate the country, will get them out into the world in a productive way, interact and see all walks of life (if there is a country in the world that doesn't have a presence here in the US as US citizens, I'd be surprised - ie, the US is made up of people from all over the planet, and nowhere else; all others are the 10-30,000 year traditions and cultures presiding on this earth here before the Europeans came. 1-2 years social service mandatory seems to satisfy everything the military service might do - though in a way that links people with our own country, with rebuilding it, and without deadening a part of the kids spirits so they will follow orders on command (a requisite for ALL jobs in all the branches of the military).
-One of the comments said that war and military might made this country. And look at where we are now came to mind. We are an international empire creating wars for resources and to continue to feed the empire. What the hell are we doing in any foreign country? Someone starts a fight with me, I fight the guy until it is finished. And then it is finished. Someone hits me, I don't hit him back and then burn down his house, and keep punching him for ten years - unless I want something he's got or I want to kill his spirit. It also is very unlikely that all this since 2000 (or since the Civil War, when we became one nation) has been about any enemy. Especially now, when someone can be found by satellite at just about any time if chosen. Right now, our wars are to sustain our international positioning for resource control. Perhaps all wars always have been nothing but this.
-Lastly, one perhaps very powerful consequence or result of a generation of kids being forced into the military at a young age is that there will be a generation of kids Perhaps more appreciative of the government and the country; but, more likely there will be a generation of kids (we are all coming of age in this country as to what foreign wars are about) who know how to fight combat and with deep resentment at what the government is doing - to our own country and to other countries.
Just reading the few comments bellow me hurts my eyes. To those who are saying this policy is slavery, please think about this. With the way this economy is tumbling and tensions with other countries rising, come World War 3, we probably won't survive it. Sure, the policy could use some adjustments. Things like an age change. 18 year olds are still idiots. So change it to about 18-32. Also, the type of service. Military may seem severe, so you could change it to any service helpful to the National whole. Volunteer work or any other organizations. Just some thoughts. But please don't call it Slavery. The people who join will be paid.
This entire article needs to be promptly moved to statism so as not to mislead any unfinformed readers as to what libertarianism is. This isn't remotely libertarian. This is actually one of the least libertarian things I've read in a while. "Upon leaving high school men and women are required, by law, to join the military for at least two years." This basically forces an individual into armed servitude of the state with the purpose of committing acts of aggression towards foreign countries in the name of increasing patriotism and other "Greater Good" bull crap. This article is so laughably anti-libertarian that I'm lead to believe that the author is either trolling, insincere, grossly uninformed, or malicioulsy misleading.
1) You're a libertarian? And you're advocating forced servitude to the government? I think there's some mis-labeling going on right here.
2) The LAST thing our military needs is hordes of unmotivated slackers and the last thing our government needs is to pay to have all of these unmotivated slackers be in the military. Right now, our military is comprised of highly motivated, intelligent people who want to be there. Adding hunderds of thousands of fat, lazy, unmotivated people with bad attitudes who don't want to be there would absolutely DECIMATE the strength of our military. Remember how the whole draft thing worked during Vietnam? It fuels anti-american sentiment, it doesn't cure it.
Althought this article is lacking in structure, I still agree with most of it. I agree to the idea that all men (and women by choice) should be required at least 2 years of military service before they reach a certain age.
All of these comments saying that it goes against the laws of freedom and the 13th Ammendment are lacking a little bit of logic.
You mean to tell me that all of those who disagree because they don't want to serve for their country, are willing to let others fight so they can sit infront of their computers and complain?
Half of you who are crying 'that is not freedom' have probably no idea what the military is even like. You base your thinking on what you've seen on the media, and with that you judge it as a bad thing?
This is why America should have mandatory military service, because people like this still exist.
I think this article has good grounding, it would be a good thing to enforce military service for many of the reasons outlined here, but the extreme to which the point is pushed and the numerous spelling errors (also by people posting comments) really put me off taking this completely seriously. If you are going to publish an article, I would suggest spell-checking it first.
I think that this is a great idea. I am a mother, sister, wife, and once a child. It does not matter who you are or where you came from you should have to serve this country you are a part of. Everyone I read that is putting this as slavery seems as though you are scared. I served the military right out of high school. I am a woman. What is so wrong with learning disipline, learning respect, learning to defend yourself, learning to save someones life, learning how to maintain a vechical, learning to shoot a weapon, learning basic ways and skills to survive in this world. I feel pitty for you all. He is not saying put them up for slavery it is better for them to do this. When they are finishe with their service no one is just let go. There are services to help you find a job, start school, and find places to live. The services for soldiers would help them. As for everyone complaining about paying taxes for them get over yourself... Seriously my question is why do athletes and movie stars and singers making more money than the soldiers out there dieing for those freedoms. You all make me sick. Quit being scared! The military can help you with that maybe you should have joined! Your pathetic!
How is this libertarian? This should be in the Statist section.
As a Libertarian and a Professional Soldier I vehemently oppose the idea of mandatory conscription. This plan would steal the young lives of everyone in the country.
The only mandatory military service I would support would be making young people do a one or two weeks of (very) basic training so they would be prepared in the event the nation were invaded as part of the militia. I would do this along the lines of the Militia Acts of our early history but in lieu of a punishment for not attending militia training they would be offered to do some community service project for those who were opposed to attending the initial military training and no one would be required to attend further militia events unless the militia was activated.
"When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson
I agree with Conscription. I served in the US Army-I enjoyed my time there. I learned more than one trade, held leadership positions, and learned to RESPECT my country. (I CRY when singing the National Anthem because I LOVE MY COUNTRY.)
My Oldest son is at WEST POINT; my oldest daughter joined the Air National Guard. I have 3 other children that will be directed to fulfil at least one tour in service. (preferably the Air Force or Coast Guard!)
I don't know how other countries military works, but I've known many people from every branch of the US service (my father was retired Navy, my husband a Marine) and every one of them have a better respect for the rights that are held by the US Citizens.
Military training teaches us to SURVIVE in times of distress; to WORK TOGETHER as a UNIT; to follow INSTRUCTIONS (there are too many young people who are rebellious!); teaches a trade- not everyone can afford to go to college, nor do they want to.
I think Citizenship should be withheld until a person completes a tour in service. WOMEN included. AND, I think that no one should be elected who has NEVER served in the military (how can someone be a leader of something they know nothing about?)
I am a Military Veteran and i'm all for mandatory service, we have become a nation of pansies, what with all of the being politically correct and watching who we offend, i'm sick of it if you have soo much dislike against the U.S.A. then excercise you right to leave it,I for one am tired of all the whiners and spoiled brat mentalities, a little discipline never hurt anyone
A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living. Today's military rejects include tomorrow's hard-core unemployed.
Want to comment on
this article? Leave your comment
here. Your email address is required to track your
comment. However, we will neither publish your email
address nor distribute it to other organizations or
persons. The only reason we might use it would be if
we needed to contact you regarding your comment. All
comments are subject to our
terms of use policy.
