Topic: Religion
Scientology members have to defend themselves against Anonymous harassment Law enforcement's successes against Anonymous trigger off a strange propaganda machine.by Louanne Lee
(centrist libertarian)
Friday, October 31, 2008
News had it less than two weeks ago that Anonymous member Dmitryi Guzner agreed to charges of computer sabotage and attacks on the Church of Scientology websites as well as to pay $37,500 in restitution.
This was a starting point of a series of legal losses for Anonymous and following irate reactions of their propagandists. On Guzner, the Anonymous propaganda machine reacted with a press release issued the same day and stating that Scientology would not support same-sex marriage, an issue the Church of Scientology is not caring about much due to its lack of spiritual background.
The next in this series of bad news for Anonymous was Gregg Housh. Housh admitted at the Boston Municipal Court that there is enough evidence to warrant a finding of guilt that he was disturbing the peace and religious services of the Church of Scientology in Boston. Housh had been leading a group of people, all masked with "V for Vendetta" masks (somewhat resembling the appearance of the KKK, as a Boston citizen would put it later) at an "international protest" of Anonymous in Boston.
To be more precise, the Assistant District Attorney, Mr. Devlin, read out the charges as follows:
"Docket # 0086676. Date of offense: February 10th, 2008. On this date the defendant, Gregg Housh, willfully disturbed and interrupted religious worship taking place inside the Church of Scientology located at that location. He also caused disturbance of the peace with the same conduct."
To which Housh says:
JUDGE: Alright, a few moments ago sir the Assistant DA, Mr. Devlin, recited the facts of the case. Did you hear what he said the facts were? HOUSH: Yes. JUDGE: Do you admit those facts as being true? HOUSH: Yes. JUDGE: You admit to sufficient facts willingly, freely and voluntarily? HOUSH: Yes.
To circumvent a sentence of up to one year of jail he agreed with a 12-month probation ending 21 Oct 2009. The court clerk information Housh at the end of the hearing that he "Please see probation, sir, before you leave the courthouse today.".
A disaster for the Anonymous, whose propagandists struggle to keep their personal army going. On 23 October 2008 several new online identities are born to start a justification spree on the internet, trying to explain that Anonymous should celebrate now that "the Judge was effectively dismissing the charges" against Housh - an obvious lie spread to keep the troop moral up. In the case of Mr. Guzner they explain to the technically illiterate why it is not harmful to try to destroy computers one does not own, a claim that might be apparent only to those who do not own a computer or website.
The Anonymous propaganda machine however was speechless on the third of last weeks' Anonymous bad news, Donald Myers. Mr. Myers, also known as "Angry Gay Pope", was given a restraining order that requires him to stay at least 50 yards away from a female Scientologist he stalked and harassed. The order also requires Myers to stay away from the L. Ron Hubbard Life Exhibition at the Church of Scientology International building in Hollywood where the victim works, and stay 50 yards away from the woman's home. The restraining order lasts for 3 years unless renewed.
Myers was found to have engaged in acts of harassment against the young woman, after video evidence was submitted to the court showing Myers stalking her, taunting her with sexual slurs, and refusing repeated requests to leave her alone. Myers was also ordered by the court to turn over any firearms in his possession to the police.
Bad news accumulated further when Francois, known as "AnonOrange" (like "Agent Orange"), was arrested on 26 October 2008 for trespassing. He and three other Anonymous members had gathered for another "international protest" when he stepped inside the Church grounds and refused to leave. He was arrested and later "hauled off to jail" (per "AnonforPres" on Youtube).
The case is open to a lot of speculation, as it is not sure what he wanted to achieve. It can be safely assumed however that he is trying to create an incident for the Anonymous propaganda department to exploit.
October is almost over. We can be curious what November brings for "Anonymous". Remember remember, the 5th of November, the rhyme going along with Guy Fawkes day - whose face is depicted on the masks of Anonymous members - is used by Anonymous members who use paid promotion since weeks on internal Anonymous boards to spread that on 5th November 2008 "at midnight London time" a severe virus will be spread to "systematically dismantle the Church of Scientology".
Well, be shall be curious.
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article are those of Louanne Lee only and do not represent
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Wow, it's amazing how Scientologists have an innate inability to tell the truth. Why don't you tell the whole story about how AnonOrange was actually baited and jumped? Oh that's right, you can't, you have to convince yourself that whatever is true for you is true for the rest of us. Wake up sweetie, your lies are more transparent than saran wrap.
i present you: the church of Scientology. As Louanne so eloquently describes, a litigation machine in full motion. Stay tuned for more action from these fine individuals, who are only here to help mankind (as long as you belong to the part of mankind that donates to the church).
You can write until your blue in the face, it does nothing to slow down the flood of Scientologists leaving the cult. So if you don't mind, i'll go see what Paul 'Scooter' Scofield has to say about Narconon down under.He left your precious fake church last week and promised some juicy stories. And he would know:
"I've been on Narconon lines for most of the last 6 years (and many are the tales to come from that, boys and girls!) so I haven't been too familiar with what the current mindsets are, but the events are getting smaller and smaller and the courserooms looking mighty empty."
So much for growth in your 'fastest growing religion'
This is an example of the information I read from Scientology websites, Louanne. It's partial. There isn't enough here to call it unbiased.
Compare what you've written about Dmitriy Guzner to what I've written about him. There was so much more to the story. You've added in something about "a series of legal losses", and then another about "press releases" and a "propaganda machine" which is unfounded. How do these people have the ability to create their own press (let alone offer press releases)? You admitted yourself that the media ignores them.
Your article about Donald Myers is closer to what happened, except you still lean towards the idea that this was some sort of sexual harrassment even though Myers is a homosexual. You've also ignore the antiSLAPP ruling from the secondary lawsuit filed.
The story about Francois is the most subversive, both he and a female friend were assaulted (badly) by your church's security guards; Francois was lured into bushes and beaten while a female witness fought for her life while being pinned against their vehicle. You didnt think that was important enough to add?
That case being open to speculation doesn't merit that it's an ongoing investigation against the security guards and the arresting officer.
Finally the speculation about November 5th ... The planned protests in November are quite evident and it won't be on the 5th as I've read. The link you've provided talks about a Cult of Xenu and something called the Xenu Virus, but it didn't seem to be in english.
Posted By: Linda Weiland
Date: 2008-10-31 07:14:05
"Hacking Scientology" / the "Xenu Virus" is just a stunt. Nothing bad or illegal is going to happen. They're just trying to freak out those who don't get the joke.
LOL, some moron gets himself busted for a DDOS. His problem.
Gregg and Anon Orange get it for what, tresspass and a not very serious one at that. Anon was entrapped, which our videos will show. Gregg should not have gone into the org, which we warned against doing. Angry Gay Pope went too far and now he has to pay for it as well. What he did was more stupid than criminal and honestly he didn't mean the lady harm but he was too pushy. You see we can admit when people in Anon screw up. We don't try to hide it like Scientology does. Like when Scientology tried to cover up the rape of Tommy Gorman's wife. Or the wrongful death of Lisa McPherson who died locked in a room againt her will and covered in roach bites. Or that woman who got decapitated when her car hit a piece of equipment that Scientology workers were moving at night with NO LIGHTS. Your response is to either deny it or pay someone money to make it go away.
Is our morale broken? Of course not. We continue to protest and we will fight on. Most of those guys above did something dumb and it serves as a lesson to protesters to keep their nose clean during protests and not to go over the line and be overzealous when protesting.
Anon Orange was set up and stepping over a line in the ground was not a warrant for Scientologists to form a mob and beat him. He was lured back there by a flare thrown at his car. A flare thrown during a level 5 fire emergency in that area no less. Anon Orange has become in a way, a martyr for the cause rather than an embarassment. The Scientology luring of him into a mob beating is having the opposite effect and now more people are talking about rejoining the protests who had grown weary months ago. In fact there is even talk of a massive protest that will happen early next year. Be interesting to see how Scientology reacts this time? More speakers playing that noise that is bothering people in Hemet? Are they going to try to set more fires around people's cars? Throw more punches? It certainly will be an interesting spectacle, that is for sure.
I know from working with you guys in the past months that you are no moral and no loyalty. You been saying it all along:
“We are the face of chaos and the harbingers of judgment. We'll laugh in the face of tragedy. We'll mock those who are in pain. We ruin the lives of other people simply because we can. Hundreds die in a plane crash. We laugh. The nation mourns over a school shooting, we laugh. We're the embodiment of humanity with no remorse, no caring, no love, or no sense of morality.”
Ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFjU8bZR19A (29 July 2007)
I didn't complain. I simply pointed out you are an idiot who believes whatever the LHR machine tellls you to. LOL at that quote too. That's awesome that you would fall for old spiel from Encyclopedia Dramatica. I think scilons are the only people who take ED seriously.
I'm not complaining, nor anyone else I think. I'm just trying to say, "So what?" to your article. It doesn't matter, or affect Anonymous. See Anons aren't a cult of greed, like the CoS (Time Magazine said this not me).
Plus, all I hear from CoS is come on down into your local org, see for yourself what we are all about. So why is it tresspassing when an Anon actually does this? Didn't CoS tell them to?
The following is a bloodcurtling piece of horror from some poor hang glider who ended up in the wrong place in Hemet by accident and was kidnapped by Scientology. Thankfully his friends went to the sherriff who rescued him. AO was lucky he didn't end up in a metal box in the desert heat either. Or murdered behind the compound.
This was posted in a hang gliding forum in 2001: I don't know when it was originally written.
This is all pretty funny in a way. At the moment I am completing a Ph.D. in Geology at the University of California, Riverside. My field area is the San Jacinto Valley in Riverside County...just east of Riverside California. `Ron Hubbard' has a `compound' smack in the middle of my field area. Perhaps you will find what I know about this compound to be interesting.
The compound has a very `nice' sounding name like `Golden Studios' or something like that....I'll catch the offical sign next time I am down there. It is heavily gated and the guards are armed (semi-automatic rifles). It is also heavily barbed in places. Additionally there are signs extending for a couple of miles around the compound that say STAY OUT! etc. etc.. Now this is no big deal because there are a lot of places with no tresspassing signs...but wait til you hear this... The compound is flanked to the norteast by very high and steep mountains.
Actually the compound is located smack on top of the San Jacinto Fault (another story, another time). To the southwest the compound opens into the San Jacinto Basin. The mountains to the northeast also include public property...as such hang gliders use this area as a launch to some pretty spectacular rides over the valley. My brother lived in Hemet for a while and a friend of his was up on the mountains to catch a draft. The lines for the Hubbard compound are not marked in many of the most trecherous areas (were talking STEEP terrain). My brothers friend apparently stepped over the line a few 10's of yards.
There is one small road (accessable by 4x4) which these people use to haul their gear to the summit. Within a few minutes 2 Hubbard `cops' and a truck drove to the top (semi automatics and everything) and told my brothers friend that he was tresspassing. My brother's friend (half clad in hang gliding gear) apologized and told the guards he would immediately leave the area. Rather than escorting him off the property, theyu told him he would be comming with them and that he would ride in the 3x3 foot tin `box' mounted in the back of their truck. To say the least my brothers friend refused and started to walk away from the compound...leaving his glider and everything. They fired in the air once and told him not to move or they would shoot him. He got in the truck. They kept him over night in the box.
In the morning the sheriff came looking for my brothers friend as two of his gliding companions reported him missing (fearing he ditched somewhere and was hurt). The Sheriff then got a call from the compound and said they had my brothers friend. He was released to the Sheriff. He filed a complaint (I don't know the outcome) and he was told by the Sheriff's department to be careful in that area as `they have reason to believe hikers have been murdered behind the compound'. This is all too scary for me. To say the least I give a wide bearth to the compound. THese Scientologists are crazy screwed up people.
Oh, the reason they knew my brothers friend was up their...They said that he tripped their `alarms'?????
ONN, I guess you will have to behave and be civil to be welcome anywhere, including a Church of Scientology. But gate crashing the place won't do you any good.
Louanne, as stated above, he was told not to go inside. One person making a bad decision doesn't paint all anon with the same brush. Nor do we blame all Scientologists for the crimes of others. Why do you think we have helped so many of them who wanted to leave? Hundreds if not thousands of left Scientology because of our protests and I've yet to hear one person say they were worse off for it.
ONN, no, he lead a whole group of people inside instead. The Youtube clip (by Anonymous) shows that clearly. They look like a gang of masked robbers who are going to loot the place.
As for "hundreds if not thousands" leaving: I must have missed that. Could you name one, only one of them?
Kate Noelle wrote: "Finally the speculation about November 5th ... The planned protests in November are quite evident and it won't be on the 5th as I've read."
There's evidence that suggests the church might be planning to stage an attack on it's own organization on the 5th and attribute it to the critics of the church.
Grumble, I take it you are doing a preventive statement, just in case the Hacking Scientology guys are actually serious about their threat against the Church of Scientology?
This is such a pile of lies there's just no place to even begin.
So Gregg admitted he walked into a building, a kid did some ddosing (which Scientology INVENTED) another chased saboteurs away from his car, and one taped a few people on a public street just like Scientology does every day. Only one has retired from Scientology protest...so, one down, 9, 999 to go. (And some seven or eight hundred people already signed on to picket Gold, plus a Rico case, plus and SECinvestigation, and yeah, DOZENS of Scientologists convicted and jailed over the past three years for crimes ranging from fraud to kidnap to murder-for-hire. Never anything as bad as walking into a building, though- that's incredibly criminal!
I wonder now what would happen if all those pychiatrists "harassed"{ by Scientologists could afford the same multi-million dollar lawyers Scientology has?
Louanne wrote: "Grumble, I take it you are doing a preventive statement, just in case the Hacking Scientology guys are actually serious about their threat against the Church of Scientology?"
I was simply stating a verifable fact the is pertinent to this discussion.
You and I both know full well that in the past the church has attempted to discredit it's critics by staging hoax attacks in accordance with official church policy.
Louanne wrote: As for "hundreds if not thousands" leaving: I must have missed that. Could you name one, only one of them?
Only one? OK
Paul 'Scooter' Scofield.
It's mentioned in a previous comment.
Louanne wrote: I know from working with you guys in the past months that you are no moral and no loyalty.
Loyalty? To whom?
If someone commits a crime or is accused of a crime it's your bloody duty help or atleast not hinder any investigation. So Our morals and Our loyalty may not be on the same tonescale as yours.
We stand by Anon Orange and AGP. Pope has recieved his "punishement" (limp wristed slap amirite?) and hopefully the investigation about the beating of Orange will stirr up a real shitstorm for the "church". Even if Orage loses in any way (unlikely) we'll stand by him.
Loyalty should NEVER make you blind. That's how you know you got morals.
Louanne wrote: "Grumble, I take it you are doing a preventive statement, just in case the Hacking Scientology guys are actually serious about their threat against the Church of Scientology?"
You didn't get that banner, did you? lol
Do you acctually think that they have a real virus available that is called "Xenu"?
Take a look at one of their Youtube vids sometime.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r_VYdLWO2Q&eurl=http://www.hackingscientology.com/
Not really that bad..eh..well, bad in the way that spreading a biological virus would be.
Do you get it now?
You'll be able to enjoy this and much more on the outside 'Louanne'. You should atleast think about it.
"As for "hundreds if not thousands" leaving since Anonymous is actively trying to disaffect members on the Church: I must have missed that. Could you name one, only one of them?"
On "Hacking Scientology", all I know is that someone is running a campaign that says a) it is ok to destroy a church and b) that they plan to do so specifically on the 5 November. It's propaganda. If it would be the announcement of clearly criminal activity WWP would have been raided already by the FBI. I am sure they are watching closely every move you guys do. But if something happens on 5 November you can be sure that they will do more than just lurking.
Jason Beghe left years ago. The anti-Scientology war of Anonymous did not exist before January 2008.
Apply minimum logic to that.
As for "hundreds if not thousands" leaving since Anonymous is actively trying to disaffect members on the Church: I must have missed that. Could you name one, only one of them?
LOL, actually he left this year. Are they re-writing the history of Jason already in there? Wow! His leaving must have been majorly damaging. And as for names, go read th ex-scientology boards or ex-sci kids. You can go there and meet with a lot of those who left this year and because of us. You can tell they were inside because they know the goofy lingo you guys use inside and out.
I've seen some of the Anonymous protests on youtube. If scientologists are so afraid of them, why are the scientologists always out there harrassing the protesters?
I've seen videos of the scientologist at protests hit protesters, tear up and steal protest signs, hit protesters cameras, ask silly questions, threaten protesters,etc,etc.
The last video I saw someone titled catch me if you can, I believe, was so weird I couldn't even believe it when I saw it.
Also, I found a website by ex scientologist, blownforgood.com. It estimated there are currently 5,000 sea org members and 25,000 ex sea org members. Everything I read from the church always says it is expanding and is the fastest growing religion. I wonder if they still claim 8 million member? Most of the ex scientology sites say 50,000 or 100,000 at the most. And where does alllll that tax exempt money go?
That is a great site. Looks like they are just getting started and said they won't post anything except samples until they get 500 stories. I wonder how long it will take them to get 500 stories from ex-scientologists? Should be interesting to see.
I was also shocked to see that a contract was required when leaving saying you won't talk about what you saw inside. That is sick. I did some googling and found links to some the other contracts that you MUST sign just to get "relgious services".
It's a real eye popper. I talked to an ex-sci I know and he said that even though it says to read it carefully, when he was joining and he started to read before signing, they got really aggressive to him and turned on the sales pitch to "oh just sign it, it's just a bunch of stuff the government says we have to have people sign for to cover us in case of an accident". He was similarily pressured to make sure people signed without reading when he was "body routing", which is what they call recruiting. I won't give his name here as he is still frightened of the cult and won't make his story public yet because he is still going through a lot of post tramatic stress over what he saw and did while inside. But if you google around online, you can find other stories about this kind of thing.
Pretty shocking that you would have to sign something like this. Read it, it's pretty amazing how much of your rights you have to give up to join. I thought Scientology was about freeing people, not locking up their rights in a contract.
I must say, you do have a clumsy, yet amusing ability to spin a story so that it reflects negatively on Anonymous.
For example, Gregg Housh. Yes, he got slapped with a TRO and has to stay a certain distance away from your houses of business. However, charges that he trespassed and "interfered with a religious service," as you put it, were dropped. Therein lies the win. Scientology's lies were dismissed as being false. The charges Scientology so dearly wanted to stick were tossed in the round file. Who knows if Scientology will even be around when his year is up? We call that a win.
Second, the Church of Scientology San Diego is named on a list of organizations that are in favor of Prop 8, a proposition that would effectively dictate to an entire segment of the population the way they live their lives by denying them the right to marry. It's not just Gregg's assertion. It's fact. If you were really a journalist, you'd make an effort to verify it. But you don't let little things like facts get in your way, do you?
Scientology's aim was to get Angry Gay Pope barred from being outside any Scientology building in Los Angeles. As it is, he is only barred from that whiny woman's workplace and residence. Which means the Celebrity Center, the Complex, the CCHR "Museum of Death" and other properties are still, pardon the expression, fair game. Again, overall, Scientology lost and Anonymous won.
The incident you inaccurately describe regarding Francois...why didn't you mention it occurred at Gold Base, Scientology's "secret" armed compound in Gilman Hot Springs?
(Anyone can visit Scientology's "secret" base by going to Google Maps, typing in Gilman Hot Springs, California, and selecting 'street view.' You can even see the Sea Org slaves clearing brush by the side of the road!)
When you see a security guard messing about with your vehicle repeatedly before retreating to a safe place behind some trees allegedly on Scientology property, you might be curious enough to approach that guard and ask him what the hell he is doing with your car, particularly when he sets off a road flare behind it during a Stage 5 fire alert. It is reasonable to assume that anyone would be likely to wish to inquire as to the guard's unneccessary behavior. It is not reasonable to be assaulted and dogpiled by three thugs hired by Scientology. He was not given an opportunity to leave the property, he was charged by Scientology goons and thrown to the ground. Get it right.
It is not reasonable for them to refuse to hand over the property of the man being assaulted to a person he authorized to take custody of the property.
In this case, the guards assaulted me when I tried to retrieve the camera. The police arrived before they were able to tamper with it and delete evidence. And, by all reports, that evidence is going to be very, very useful to us in court.
So, Louanne, or Gavino, or whatever your name is, don't worry about Anonymous. Our morale is high. Desperate attempts like yours only prove what we suspect, that Scientology is going down. Kicking, punching and screaming, but going down nonetheless.
Every time they assault someone for exercising their right to speak out, every trap laid, every call to the police that wastes time, it's all good. Anonymous is kicking cult butt, and we're not gonna stop until Scientology is only read about in history books. Time and public opinion is on our side, and nothing you can do will change that.
Ok, ONN, you can't answer the question. Because nobody left because of Anonymous. Their actions had NO RESULTS at all for their agenda. But they did have effects, like more support from the human rights community for the Church of Scientology. More support by even the most loosely connected members. More interest in the public websites of the Church. I won't go so far as to thank Anonymous and yes, some security people of the Church might be pissed about you, but us normal members have learned a lot about recognizing slimy propaganda and fluff brains.
More interest in the public websites of the Church? Eh,i think that the public are less interested by this graph which tells site traffic each day on websites such as yours.
Louanne, there is nothing normal about the Scientology cult. There are videos on youtube that proves incriminating to your organization. Scientologists running around through back doors, climbing over fences, and walking very fast around protestors like the poligamists. Its a shame that you lie everytime when there are bonified facts that prove you wrong.
Ironic that you talk about slimy propaganda and fluff brains... That\'s a statement that totally describes what you are doing online!!!
LOL Louanne. I'm not revealing names of people on this board because you want them. Nice try. As I have said, you can go to http://www.exscn.net/ and http://exscientologykids.com and read the stories for yourself. There are tons of new stories there and stories of people leaving because of anonymous. If the ex-scientologists want to reveal their names in their stories they will. Or you can go there and ask them for the names themselves, assuming they are willing to give them out. Some will, some won't. You'll have to deal with it.
Very interesting statistics BJ. I added the critics and anonymous sites and it would appear that their traffic is hardly any more than ours is. Ouch! You can see the big fall started in May and there were two more big falls in Aug and Sept. We are having impact. Scientology would call this "at cause". Anonymous is "at cause" here. Our protests have driven an ever larger number of people away from these sites. More evidence comes pouring in that Scientology is a sinking ship. Thanks for posting that!
Sorry if I'm posting a lot of comments here but I had a little more to say. I find it interesting reading the stories of ex-sci people and seeing how whenever something bad happened in their life, they were told they "pulled it in" and to go over any "overts" and "withholds" they have. Pulled it in is kind of like "got what you asked for". A form of Karma in Scientology as I understand it.
Right now bad things are happening to Scientology itself. Protests, people leaving, bad press. The works! Yet there is no provision to ever suggest that Scientology "pulled it in". No one is allowed to say that maybe Scientology management are the ones with overts and withholds. That the way Scientology has handled critisicm and members asking questions and wanting to leave has "pulled in" the protests. Why is this? Why can one not suggest this inside without punishment? There seems to be no evaluation for the material as well as actions of the management of Scientology. Why is this? Those in charge are quick to blame the people for their own failings and their own problems. But they can't recognize their own.
In fairness to Louanne, I think many of this new wave of protesters underestimated the efficacy of Hubbard's thought reform tech and also the extent to which Sea Org members are isolated from the wog world.
As for her claim that the protestors actions "actions had NO RESULTS at all for their agenda" - does she even have access to all the data that would support that claim?
Eg. How many copies of Dianetics were sold this year compared to last? How many people have joined the church this year compared to last? How many existing scientologists have donated for new courses this year compared to last? How much alcohol has Little Davey consumed this year compared to last? Etc.
Louanne wrote: On "Hacking Scientology", all I know is that someone is running a campaign that says
a) it is ok to destroy a church
and
b) that they plan to do so specifically on the 5 November. It's propaganda. If it would be the announcement of clearly criminal activity WWP would have been raided already by the FBI. I am sure they are watching closely every move you guys do. But if something happens on 5 November you can be sure that they will do more than just lurking.
If you don't know that much about them maybe you should look into it before bringing it up.
About propaganda; 'Propaganda is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda.
Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.'
Hmm... Church or Propaganda... has a nice ring to it. You may use that in your next note to the suggestion box. Seriously, CoS have been using it against any and all who oppose them in any way and especially against Psychiatry. Why wouldn't everyone want you to taste your own medecine....
About the ceiling-FBI watching us. I sure hope so! NAY! I DEMAND it. They've been recieveing documents, videos and photos from us for a good while now. I don't think they realized how many C&D letters you acctually send out untill now. It's so much now that it's looking more like harassment. Infact, when the C&D proves nugatory and you send your fake "Anonymous are *GASP* terrorists"-DVD to them or their familly instead, it looks even worse.
Not to mention the Private Investigators you pay to trace and follow people from the protests to their homes so you acctually CAN send the Cease & Desist letters.
Louanne, we know that many people are leaving the church. It also seems that this trend is on the increase, as many of the recent defections are in ever-increasing numbers. While it may be difficult to pinpoint the exact cause (certainly, the abusive practices of COS must loom large as a reason), Anonymous certainly is somewhat responsible, as they have worked to provide much of the information that helps undo the cult's programming.
As much as you work to obfusciate the truth about this, Anonymous' primary tool has been peaceful protesting. The church has worked diligently to prosecute every minor infraction to the nth degree; the real story here is that most of the charges brought against Housh and AGP were dropped and will not keep either one of them from protesting in the future. That translates as fail for you. Additionally, the guards reacted with disproportionate force to AO's "tresspass" (which they baited him into) and I would expect the charges will be dropped against him.
Meanwhile, your anti-Anonymous articles never have (and never will, I predict) discussed why there are international protests against the church. There's plenty of other churches (real ones, actually) out there. Why do people protest yours?
Is it your polices of disconnection? Fair Game? Forced abortions of Sea Org members? Physical abuse by the head of your church? Squelching free speech? Any and all of the above?
Members leaving, recruiting down. Sounds like the end is at hand. Maybe it's a good time for you to stage a fake assault on yourselves . . .
Posted By: Not anonymous
Date: 2008-11-01 21:29:44
After doing my own research into this cult in the past week or two, i am UTTERLY DISCUSTED with everything to do with this conman named Hubbard. From his blatant lies of his "heroic" military record, to what his Henchmen have done to Agent Orange. And before any of you brain washed scientologists tell me that Im uninformed, I entered my research without bias and probably know about your cult than you do.
Not anonymous - Apparently you are errr, ummm, well, I'll just copy and paste you, then you'll understand.
i am UTTERLY DISCUSTED
Whew, I hope you are sitting down or something, I hope you are breathing or something. A condition like that, hey, if you let it build up real big? It might mean a brain fart or something, whew. Here is a link (not to Scientology though) that might be helpful to you: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discusted
Marc Abian - First of all, I disagree strongly with your hypothesis. When you state your opinion, as if it were fact, you lose credibility in the eyes of your audience. You hypothesis various things about the Church of Scientology's growth are directly opposite Affluence. The Church is buying up million dollar (and million pound) properties and donating 50,000 pounds to charity. http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/3807996.Scientologists_hand_Sussex_air_medics___50k/
Does this sound like a shrinking Church to you? You've been reading too much Xenu, get a life, quit stating your opinions as if they were fact, quit manufacturing opinion with so little information, quit over-generalizing single instances of long-ago failure into current news, find ways to party and drink more water.
Hey Anonymous, I just happened onto this article and read this thread. Are you guys kidding? How can you live with yourself? Like really? How do you get anything done in life? Listen, few people (that I know of) have actually heard about you guys (anonymous, or whatever) The three people I am talking about were long time friends of mine who read something about you google bombing or something and then kept tabs on your actions and youtube videos and whatnot. The end result is that all three independent of each other and within the last 2 months have requested books and/or other materials with regard to what Scientology is and at least one is doing a course from their home. I checked with another friend in Minneapolis and she related a similar story of a friend of hers who is now involved with one of the community based programs there. Apparently, your activities are bringing interest and not disaffection as you claim. Spreading lies and dishonest fabricated stories and spin as you do in this thread, only creates interest. The more interest and the more people will dig and they will find that though a few people have had a bad experience, the absolute vast majority of individuals participating in anything to do with Scientology, have a good experience.
Based on what you're saying, you think you have some over reaching and tremendous influence, but I hate to break it to you, it's all in your head.
Scientology expands and continues to do well and help people because it is good. The results are real and measurable.
You may provide a few examples of ex-SCNists and what they're saying and so what. I was a member of the Sea Org twice. I worked at the highest echelons of the Church. After a few years both times, I decided to leave and left. My friends were disappointed but it was just a matter of paperwork and basically turning in keys, etc...
I wanted to pursue a degree in Computers and that is what I am doing.
I am still a Scientologist and I still take courses and so forth.
Anyway, I am familiar, directly, with a few of the examples you are providing to further your own general hostility in your own mind, but you have it wrong. If you read only what a few hundred people over the last 58 years have to say about their particular situation (which may have been bad to them) then of course, that is your own choice. It's unfortunate that anyone have a bad experience, but some types people will have a bad experience no matter where they go and what they do.
Anyway, I hope you actually check out the real scoop and not all this propaganda.
Terryeo, of course you disagree with my hypothesis. It runs counter to your agenda of “clearing the planet,” so it must be disregarded, whether it’s true or not.
Buying property has nothing to do whatsoever recruiting new members, a fact so obvious it shouldn’t have to be stated.
Sources inside the Church say that these new orgs are largely empty and represent the efforts of COS to impress their members with pretty pictures of their latest “acquisitions” (and give them an opportunity to reg members for more money).
Interesting that you refer to the “affluence” of an institution that’s supposed to be a non-profit to support your argument . . .
Posted By: Not anonymous
Date: 2008-11-02 22:08:43
Terreyo, authorities of spelling too huh? My appologies. I prefer to place more importance to conceptual understanding and critical thinking than spelling (but not saying spelling is unimportant). Im sure i can find more than a few examples of you improperly misspelling words, stop being such a douche.
Another person who left, and made a book!. (that\'S the 2nd book i saw come out recently).
Even better, here\'s another one, Jean-Paul Dubreuil. Guess what, he also made a book.
if you are ever permited, try to get a hand on these book and read them. You wouldn\'t be afaid to read those I hope. Also, If you have a comment, I\'d suggest you say nothing unless you have read these books. Because you can\'t claim any piece of litterature is bad without having read it first. Dismissing it without having read it is clearly biaised.
I\'ve been reading these Nolan topics for a while and saw all the fighting in the comments, I went to the links. I chose my side. mainly because I read from BOTH side. I have not accepted any speculation whatsoever. you saying you are the fastest growing religion is dismissed because of lack of proof (and no, buying buildings don\'t count, that only say you got lot of money, and we all know why). Anonymous claims of people leaving Is verifiable.
like David\'s Niece. she even passed on a news channel.
so, I named three more person who left. and please, saying they haven\'t left this year is not an argument. in fact, it give even more credit to anonymous, since they left before what you call \'anonymous propaganda\'.
Back-scene lurker - says: so, I named three more person who left.
Oh yeah, Lurk, oh yeah, this article is about YOU. See where the article says: Law enforcement's successes against Anonymous trigger off a strange propaganda machine.You are part of that propaganda machine. You are giving examples of Anonymous' strange propaganda machine. Oh yeah Lurk, Right on, beanhead, that's precisely an example. Louanne noticed and created an article, and you come along with examples of what she is talking about, you come along with the very propaganda she points out. Oh yeah Lurch, (opps, did I mispell Lunk) good example, hey you!
Terryeo, the examples that Back-scene lurker gives of former Scientologists leaving the Church are not Anonymous; their identities are well-known.
What Anonymous has accomplished is to allow for former members to come out and speak the truth about the abusive practices of COS. Cult is crumbling. Hopefully you can get out before Davey makes you drink the Kool-aid . . .
Posted By: William Johnson
Date: 2008-11-03 10:29:14
Anonymous has also helped provide information to those who escape the cult, as in exscientologists.org to help make the transition from enslavement to the real world easier. Anonymous has provided funds and help to several people who have exited the cult.
The main thing Anonymous has done was to inform the unknowing of the cult's deceptive practices, in order to avoid losing their life savings and being taken advantage of.
Why lose your life savings (and in some cases MORE than you can pay) when all the levels, teachings of LRH are on the internet FOR FREE? IN HIS OWN WORDS.
back-scene lurker, it's really funny how you guys are completely incapable to present any results. I was asking for people who left the church because of Anonymous action since January 2008. And the answer still is: ZERO.
William Johnson- It is such a tickle. Here is how it really works. People walk into and out of 7000+ Churches every day, often 2 times a day, often 4 times a day, sometimes more. That is actually what goes on and has gone on for 50 years, although the quantities have increased considerably. The reason for this has to do with Scientology being a study, where people study from 2 to12 hours a day. Every day, not just Sunday. :)
Now -a- then Mr. Johnson, you and your propaganda machine want to hold up a certain element these carpet sweepings you are so fond of gathering. You use the word "escape". You don't use the word "quit" or even "stopped study" or "slowed in progess", oh no. For you and your carpet sweeping friends it has to be "Escaped". You're too far removed from reality, Mr. Critic. Here's another one, far and gone from reality; "cult is crumbling". Neither of these situations are as you characterize them. Who else said, ".. as you characterize it"? Why, it was Tommy, wasn't it? Let me put it this way. Critics characterization has move further and further and further from its mark. You gather you tiny pile of carpet sweepings up and try to characterize it, you try to understand what it means. And you miss your mark. The more pile you have, the further you miss your mark. I'm trying to tell you as a brother here, your characterization is further and further from real. You stare at the dirt and don't understand why it formed and stomp around and try to get the reason but you haven't a glimmer. I'm not trying to mislead you.
Medias alone now dare touch the subject of the CoS, and more than ever is it depicting it for what it is.
And like your usual coment, you only try to find a tiny bit in a critical coment, and try to invalidate it as a whole, or just ignore it.
I won't debate with you about people who left since they arrived, since although we these kids has a huge amount of testimonies left on their sites, they usually won't go as far as to say details like their real name, since they know what happen to those who dare opose Scientology. And I understand them. I would be afraid too in their place. I read the 'cancelation' of fair game, if you read it carefully, you see they only canceled the use of the word, not the practice.
And terryeo, don't act like an idiot, I said I read on both side, And that also mean I had to understand some of their lingo at one point, wich mean 'lurker'.
I don't see why you got a fixation on 'after-anonymous', well, after they started to put their eyes on your group.
The main problem is all the abuses the Church does, this is not a competition between who's the most evil. it's about the church's practices.
out of the two, Anonymous does not deny what some did in their name. Anonymous members did DDoS the site in retaliation to Scientology pulling Tom Video down, and they are not denying it. Your Church has heavily enforced your fair game policy, but continue to denies it.
At least if you could stop lying by ommision of all the facts in your articles, people wouldn'T be bashing at you all the time, but you are not open to constructive argumentation.
at the very least, say all the facts from BOTH sides. then give your opinion. omiting one side makes it propaganda, and the commenters here told what you ommited, as well as any other of your articles.
7000 churches, can you give me a list of all of them. I think 7000 is an over statement, just like the 8 million members you claim.
By the way, you are the only church that puts celebrities on a higher eschelon than other members with your celebrity centers.
I think Scientology is very horrible from what I hear former scientologists states that you keep private files on them and if they get out of line then you use that so you can harass and embrass them. What kind of church keeps private files of personal information for the purpose of future harassment.
Its ironic that you talk about propaganda machines because you place the same statements in free press release sites over and over again. Isnt that what propaganda is, stating the same stuff over and over making the reader of sites thinking its true. Plus some of these statements I see is purely speculation. Its a shame that a religion, which you claim that you are, loves to spread false propaganda.
In addition to that, I have read about the Proposition 8, and saw that Scientology is supporting it. There is no denying that. I saw the Anon Orange video and if he was trespassing you have no right to do a Rodney King on him. .
prop·a·gan·da [prop-uh-gan-duh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc. 2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc. 3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.
I support Anonymous because in this day and age, because people have the right to fight an oppressive organization like Scientology. It started as a censorship thing which Scientology has brought in. This kids who are fighting tryanny in the subtext of religion are going to a bright future in store for them and I wish them well. GO ANONYMOUS
I denounce "Anonymous" because while it claims to be fighting some of the Church of Scientology's policies, it is really attempting to attack, insult and destroy the religion of Scientology.
The majority of articles and videos posted by "Anonymous" over the last nine months have targetted the "beliefs" of Scientologists. They rarely mention the church or its policies.
"Anonymous" cannot differentiate between a church and a religion. They blend the two together. They harrass Scientologists that have already left the church only because of the religion of those Scientologists.
"Anonymous" is a crusade. It is a loosely organized group of anti-religious fanatics that target anyone who dares to think or believe differently than they do. This isn't the Dark Ages. The Roman Catholic Church is no longer permitted to threaten non-believers with death if they refuse to convert.
Guy Fawkes was a Catholic extremist who targetted both the British government and the Protestants. "Anonymous" is more of the same. "Anonymous" wants a return to the Dark Ages where the masses are kept illiterate and ignorant. "Anonymous" wants a society where only priests and bishops are allowed to have access to knowledge. "Anonymous" is opposed to free speech and the freedom of religion.
Robert M. - It is sooo like Anonies to demand proof, insist on personal demonstration of the least concept. In this case, here is what you do. Go to Google Maps and type in "Scientology", you get 7000+ hits. But to argue quantity, such as number of mapable establishments, or quantity of active members, isn't the point, anyway. You got an organization, it is doing its thing. When is says the sky is blue, Anonies argue. Scientology says, "It is our position that indivudals are free to worship the supreme being however they wish" -- And Anonies argue that such a statement does not make a religion, argue that Scientologists don't believe in God, argue that the organzation is at fault. Isn't the direction of Anonymous obvious, even to you?
Terryeo only provides one example (buying property) that the Church is expanding. As mentioned previously, that is not a true reference. How about some objective piece of data? Org stats being up? Sales of "Dianetics" up?
These won't be provided because they don't exist.
Here's another thought for you.
You're right. Anonymous protests are fail. No possible recruit has been discouraged from joining. No Scientologist has left the Church.
Great!! Then call off the PI's and stop trying to follow protestors home!! Stop calling their places of work and stop handing out "black PR" flyers!!
Oh, and by the way, is this what you call "protecting yourselves?":
"Oh, and by the way, is this what you call "protecting yourselves?""
Did you read the article? Here, it says:
Francois
Bad news accumulated further when Francois, known as "AnonOrange" (like "Agent Orange"), was arrested on 26 October 2008 for trespassing. He and three other Anonymous members had gathered for another "international protest" when he stepped inside the Church grounds and refused to leave. He was arrested and later "hauled off to jail" (per "AnonforPres" on Youtube).
The case is open to a lot of speculation, as it is not sure what he wanted to achieve. It can be safely assumed however that he is trying to create an incident for the Anonymous propaganda department to exploit.
