Topic: Politics
Are We in a Civil War? Kelsey Grammer mentioned we are in a civil war while appearing on the Glenn Beck show recently. He felt the lines were quickly being drawn between those who support self-reliance and limited government versus those who feel the government needs to do more and think they're entitled to redistributed dollars.by Gary Wood
(conservative libertarian)
Saturday, October 18, 2008
There are those among us who understand we weren't meant to be a democracy and there's a big difference between a federalist republic and a representative democracy. Many understand the importance of checks and balances in government versus majority control and majority rule. In that environment the 17th Amendment would need to be repealed and the electoral college restored yet many don't know what the 17th did and support a strictly popular vote for the president as well.
Among the people are those who believe we should have a Constitutionally restricted Federal Government while the rest are OK with the deficit spending process that fuels numerous entitlement programs. Under a United States living within the Constitution Alexis de Tocqueville saw people associated locally to overcome challenges in education, welfare, policing, and other key issues impacting our families and local lives. Over the past century and a half we instead have the government driving areas they were never meant to. Examples are the Department of Education, welfare programs, federalized police forces, and D.C. controlling what states and communities are to do.
In the beginning we supported a foreign policy introduced by Jefferson and embraced by Washington. It was a non-intervention approach to open interaction with the world without conflicting entanglements. Since Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson every administration has instead supported an interventionist approach that has led to our troops being in 130+ countries around the globe at a cost of over $1 trillion per year. This issue alone is quite misunderstood yet sparks anger among many who believe to not intervene or to not support intervention is somehow unpatriotic and passiveness.
Do all of these differences point to a growing riff among the people that really does equate to being in a civil war. Not fought with guns, at least not yet, but with rhetoric, sound bites, and misdirection by politicians who only are focused on power over the people? We'll discuss the idea of whether or not we are at war. If we are, who are the armies fighting for control? What side would be wise to choose and fight for? What will be the outcome of the latest battle and will we survive as the country we think we are? Join us in this discussion this;
We must restore conversation in politics. During our discussion listeners can join in live chat as well as call in and voice their opinion. We hope to hear from people who support all sides of the discussion. If we are truly at war we must fight with debate so we can avoid fighting with weapons. Join us please and let's promote education through conversation.
Thanks for taking the time to visit Nolan Chart, do come back often and share the articles with others. The most important thing we can all restore is conversation regarding politics.
The views expressed in this
article are those of Gary Wood only and do not represent
the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates. Gary Wood is
solely responsible for the contents of this article and is not an
employee or otherwise affiliated with Nolan Chart, LLC in his/her role as a columnist.
I didn't quite see where you were going with your article except to try to assemble some people for a chat. Sounds like advertising to me.
There was certainly no convincing argument that there is a "civil war" going on. It's just the bombast of that conservative crowd of uncompromising, intolerant, bigoted conservatives who won't listen to anyone else. And, they'll soon be whistling to themselves in a tiny (but OBNOXIOUSLY vocal) minority somewhere. Maybe Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will sing in the choir ~ that's all they've been preaching to for the last 8 years.
Well I wouldn't call it a war since we aren't shooting at each other. But there certainly is an ideological dispute between those who would take us down the path to socialism, and those who believe in freedom, limited government, and the constitution. Unfortunately the dispute has been further mucked up by the neo-cons who turned the Republican party into a borrow and spend, anti-freedom, war party.
In my opinion Ron Paul was our last hope for restoring our constitutional republic. Now that he's out of the running I see no hope for that. It looks like our country will soon be run by anti-gun socialists. For those of us who love freedom and the constitution, our focus now should be on surviving Obama, and of course surviving the remaining term of W.
I wish you'd also give a link to the Kelsey Grammar interview. Unlike our resident Liberal, I've never considered Grammar an "intolerant, bigotted conservative," but a small-l liberal himself -- so I would be interested in what he had to say.
Master C - You're right...it is not an article meant to argue we are or we aren't, it's an advertisement for all of us to chat. 'Education through Conversation' has been a paramount campaign theme of mine for over a decade. It was conversation and debate that led us to the 'Age of Enlightenment' and without talking with one another we will not renew such an age of hope. We must talk with one another if we are to understand one another. I agree with nothing I've read from you yet I must hear your views as I struggle to understand why you believe the way you do, just as those who share your views should want to speak with people like me who support neither the RNC or DNC but the foundational wisdom of a properly run Federalist Republic. So, advertisement or not, it is yet another effort to keep a conversation, a debate alive while attempting to avoid the senseless and useless name calling or bickering that gets us nowhere. Those who care about liberty and freedom may be a small, even obnoxious, minority yet I for one don't cling to the Limbaugh/Hannity views anymore than I cling to the Olbermann/Maddow crowd. This conversation needs to be rooted with people beyond political party. Politics in the U.S. are nothing more than, as author Larry Bradley reminds us, focused on issues and personality rather than principles and outcomes. I am an advertiser for conversation focused on principles and outcomes.
David S - You seem to get it quite clearly. This is an idealogical war between forces of authoritarian oligarchy gaining ground against the ideals of liberty, freedom and self-reliance. I for one look forward to the Obama/Democrat years (if they win) as I believe it will fuel an increase in the true idealogical conversation we must have as well as a spark to infuse renewed growth to those of us who respect the attempts our founders made within our experiment of a Federalist Republic. We have become a minority yet the dark years ahead will not squash our minority, it will give rise to our numbers and our ability to truly restore the experiment. In the process these coming years may finally lay to rest the terrible nature of two-party control in a representative democracy that history teaches us always lives a short life ending in a violent death. It is my hope that our civil war will not need to resort to bullets. I'm still of the hope we can win this war through debate, understanding, and a mutual respect as we learn how each of us have views that are relevant even though we may disagree. In the end our nation will be different but the difference we are witnessing is because we've stopped talking to one another about politics and I do think conversational debate is key to surviving the times ahead and thriving again in the more distant future.
Georege - It took a bit of digging through Beck's site but I finally found the conversation transcript. Great idea and I should have included it in this short piece. Here's the link: Grammer on Glenn Beck; http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/16126/
I missed the first hour of your show because there was a debate on TV between candidates for the US Senate, Carl Levin and Jack Hoogendyk. After listening to both candidates I knew who to vote for... Scotty Boman the Libertarian candidate. That's right Scotty wasn't in the debate. He wasn't invited, because the Rs and Ds want to maintain their stranglehold on government.
Getting back to your show, there was some interesting discussion and I'll probably tune in to future programs just to hear comments by like minded people. I applaud your efforts. But I must tell you I'm fearful for America's future. There seems to be two main groups of people. One group wants free stuff from government. The other group can only be happy if our military is kicking the hell out of some other country. It doesn't matter who or why, just so long as the marines are kicking ass. That group is especially perplexing. They can offer no rational reason why we attacked Iraq but they are damn sure we needed to do it. I can show them video of W admitting that Iraq was not involved in 911 and that they had no weapons of mass destruction. They seem somewhat surprised by that and yet they insist that we need to be in Iraq. These are intelligent and rational people and yet on this issue they seem to be immune to reason and logic.
Neither of these groups gives a damn about the constitution and most of them wouldn't know the constitution if it bit them on the ass. Without the constitution we are wide open to tyranny. One group will lead us to socialist tyranny and the other will lead us to fascist tyranny. Unfortunately our numbers are far too small to have any influence.
All of that leads me to believe there are two actions we should take.
1) We should develop plans to protect ourselves from whichever candidate wins in November.
2) We should then sit back and watch the country implode from fiscal irresponsibility. This isn't a matter of being heartless or hoping such a thing will happen. The country is on a path to self destruction and there is nothing we can do to stop it. All we can do is be prepared to survive it.
David S. - Thanks for tuning in, next time do feel free to join in the chat or call the show. I read your post with a level of saddness simply because too many feel the frustration you so well articulated. Let me simply remind you of the words of Samuel Adams. "...it does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irat, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..."
There are at least three groups (actually more) and we stand as one of the fastest growing, IMHO. Don't be too gloomy for there is hope coming as oppression grows. Liberty is bred from this very type of situation. Black's Law Dictionary, 5th Edition teaches us, "Liberty embraces freedom from duress; freedom from government interference..."
I hope you tune in again, bring friends, and get involved in the conversation. It is through educational conversation we shall sow the seeds of future generation's freedom. Nolan Chart is another source and we who cling to the Old Republic will long thank Walt and those others forming sites outside the media that let you and I share our views and grow our numbers. Gloom is for the current oligarchy to embrace for our efforts will reach fruition within the next five years...hold fast to your convictions, victory and restoration are closer than either of us know.
Gary, first my apologies for posting such a depressing response. You're right, it can be a very frustrating battle, and I've been very frustrated by it lately. But we must never give up.
Last night I discovered Michael Badnarik has a new daily talk show at http://www.gcnlive.com:80/. It comes on at 10:00pm Eastern time Monday through Friday. As you probably recall Michael was the 2004 LP candidate for president. I tuned in last night and was delighted to hear Michael still "Lighting the fires of liberty". It really gave me a lift that I obviously needed. Following is the schedule for this week:
Monday - G. Edward Griffin - The FED and our 700 Billion dollar bailout Tuesday - Pat Shannan - "The Miracle on Main Street" Wednesday - Jerry Smith - HAARP weather control Thursday - Beverly Eakman - education in America Friday - Henry Lamb & Michael Coffman - United Nations Day
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