Topic: Human Rights
Scientology Kills Siberia USA 52 years ago, a coalition of citizen advocacy groups and members of the Church of Scientology, together with L. Ron Hubbard, brought the clear and present dangers of Bill to public attention that would have ended at piece of freedom in the US.by Louanne Lee
(centrist libertarian)
Monday, October 13, 2008
The untold story about the roots of the "Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act".
As early as 1949, two U.S. government psychiatrists, Winfred Overholser and Robert Felix, were involved in legislating new commitment procedures at state and federal levels.
This was pursuant to the plan for psychiatry that had been outlined as early as 1940. In his "Strategic Planning for Mental Health" address to the United Kingdom's National Council for Mental Hygiene, Dr. John Rees, a leading spokesman for psychiatry, laid out the following agenda:
"We must aim to make (psychiatry) permeate every educational activity in our national life. . . . Public life, politics and industry should all of them be within our sphere of influence . . .(W)e have done much to infiltrate the various social organizations throughout the country.
"Similarly we have made a useful attack upon a number of professions. The two easiest of them naturally are the teaching profession and the Church: the two most difficult are law and medicine." ("Mental Health", Vol. I, No. 4, October 1940, article: "Strategic Planning for Mental Health" by Colonel J. R. Rees)
Following Rees' lead, psychiatrists during the 1940s used the impetus of World War II to entrench themselves into government through the armed forces. Rees trained US officers of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) in psychological warfare practices. (US Labor Party Publication, "The Tavistock Mother")
US psychiatrists followed suit, using the National Research Council's Committee on Neuropsychiatry to place psychiatrists in the armed forces.(National Research Council, Oct 9, 1944)
This committee was chaired by Dr. Winfred Overholser, director of St. Elizabeth's, a federal psychiatric hospital in Washington, D.C.
They drafted state mental health laws that included the eradication of jury trials and defenses and would allow any peace officer, friend or medical doctor to institute commitment proceedings. Within the ensuing few years, several states began adopting these "model" commitment procedures.
Overholser proposed the Alaska Mental Health Act, supported by the APA and NAMH. It was introduced in the U.S. Congress in 1954. This act would have instituted the Overholser/Felix commitment procedures at federal level, allowing anyone in the US to be picked up and shipped to a mental hospital in Alaska. "Siberia USA." (H.R. 8009, 1954)
This Bill received scant public attention, and passed unanimously in the House of Representatives in January 1956. (The Daily Alaska Empire, Feb 20, 1956)
It now called for psychiatric facilities to be built in what was then the relatively unpopulated territory of Alaska. The measure included provisions for a national commitment procedure which would have empowered any peace officer to involuntarily commit any individual to psychiatric care - without recourse. The person would then be shipped off to Alaska for confinement and "treatment." (H.R. 6376, 1956)
A coalition of citizen advocacy groups and members of the Church of Scientology, lead by L. Ron Hubbard, brought the clear and present dangers of the Bill to public attention. ("On Psychiatric Subversion", article by L. Ron Hubbard)
In late 1956, the bill was defeated. ("Bats in the Belfry", Chapter 10 "Alaska Forever", p. 159, by Ellen McClay, 1964).
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Everyone should watch the Nightline interview. It gives a good picture of the substance and value of Scientology. It is no wonder he hasn't given another televised interview since then.
"Jentzsch: Psychiatry is Russian and Nazi. Remember, it's an import. It's like bringing the bonic, the bubonic plague into America, as far as I'm concerned. They are not American, and we are. And they can go back to where they came from"
Not above playing on xenophobia, Mr Jentsch?. As if America is not a land of immigrants.
Oh, I nearly forgot. Here's more coverage from Nightline about Hubbard's crusade against psychiatry.
Sawyer: Hubbard also announced he had gone beyond psychiatry, by literally traveling in space to Venus and Mars, and to a distant radiation belt.
Hubbard: I was up in the Van Allen Belt. This is factual. And I don't know why they're scared of the Van Allen Belt, because it's simply hot. You'd be surprised how warm space is.
Sawyer: Hubbard said he had discovered secrets of the universe so powerful they could only be heard by Scientologists who had spent hundreds of hours studying his programs. Anyone else would be struck dead by the knowledge. He told stories of how, 75 million years ago, an evil tyrant collected beings on other planets to be stored in volcanoes on earth.
Hubbard: Boxed them up in boxes, threw them into space planes. DC-8 airplane is the exact copy of the space plane of that day. No difference, except the DC-8 had fans, propellers on it, and the space plane didn't.
Sawyer: As this film depicts, the spirits' bodies were destroyed by hydrogen bombs, and today their troubled spirits are attached to human bodies by the thousands. Called "body thetans," they cause endless problems. Only Scientology knows how to shake them loose.
Posted By: David Mudkips
Date: 2008-10-13 18:39:04
Another scientologist pissing into an ocean of piss. You got the first part of the headline right though: Scientology Kills - period.
Hey tell us what scientology did for Uwe Stuckenbrock. He had MS and died last week in your RPF gulag in Los Angeles. His brother Markus in Germany (who is not in the cult) is seeking information but can't seem to get anywhere - even from his own dad who is in the cult in Germany. Uwe's ex-wife (who was forced to divorce Uwe because his illness made him what they call a "downstat") is the "upstat" personal assistant to the cult's criminal boss David Miscavige. They are probably plotting their story and deciding which documents to burn. Afterall, Uwe's former position before he was sent to the RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force) was head of international security for the cult of scientology. That's why you kept him in the RPF feeding him with the lies that your faux self-help rituals would help his MS disease because you feared what he might tell.
Your science fiction batshit crazy mafia cult has no right to interfere with science.
You can't even provide any credible links to scientifically support your position. It's all blah blah blah.
LOL... unsubstanciated, irrelevant, non-sequitor "comments". You guys programmed a machine for this? Doesn't require thinking so a computer should be able to do it.
Posted By: Lt.Tharg of the Marcabian Empire
Date: 2008-10-13 19:20:58
Before you try and lie to us about how you think scientology is doing wonderful things for America and the world, how about you look at how you treat your own members.
Just uploaded on YouTube today, Gerry Armstrong (ex-scientologist who worked closely with L.Ron Hubbard) tells us about scientology's cruel treatment of the mentally ill.... [link edited for length]
See, Scientology, that's how to go about it. You've managed to succesfully infiltrate some of the most powerful institutions on the Earth, including the CIA. How about sharing some of your findings instead of squirelling it away in some org? Anonymous has been at cause via exposure. The question is, is Scn still capable of being at cause by exposing the corruption it has found in government, corporate, and so-called religious institutions? Does Scn have what it takes to puublish its findings on corruption beyond the Alaska Bill? Do you know where all the FEMA camps are located? Do you know the money trails of politicians? Do share.
Oh, and before any other anons jump on me for this, the article is factually accurate. Tinfoil hat? Well, I suggest you wear one the next time you attempt to expose the insane accusations you're hurling at Scientology. Get the it? You're all part of a conspiracy against Scientology, which in its own right is a conspiracy attacking various other conspiracies. Get the picture?
You're not part of some goddamned fuzzy-wuzzy "cause" against an "evil" cult. Scientology is not really a cult, nor is it a religion, or rather, it's a religion in the truest sense: a load of BS used to manipulate those who don't have the intellectual capacity to understand what they're doing. WE ARE NOT JUST FREE-HUGS PROTESTS. The hippies are often just an outter shell, the same as most Scis are just their outter shell, and they don't usually have the clue what the higher-ups are doing. Project Chanology was most likely concoted by a sociopath. LRH was certainly a sociopath, the same as DM. They are all engaged in using sheeple to fight other sociopathic power schemes, such as the CIA, Banksters, Bush Administration, Islamic theocracies, Russian invasions, etc. it's all the same shit.
You removed all mention of your leader's name from your "References". What's his name again?
Can you put those references back so people don't need to drag them out of a cache?
His eloquent discussion of the Siberia Bill on Nightline is much better than your own. That's all people need to watch. He did all his public defending of scientology in 1992, and hasn't needed to do anything more, since. You are really just detracting from his message.
In accordance with AS 38.05.801 and the implementing regulations governing Alaska Mental Health Trust land management (11 AAC 99), Trust land shall be managed consistently with the responsibilities accepted by the state under the Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act (P.L. 84-830, 70 Stat. 709 [1956]). This means that management shall be conducted solely in the best interest of the Alaska Mental Health Trust and its beneficiaries.
The Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act apparently passed, and is alive and well in the Alaska Mental Health Trust organization.
Posted By: Full Metal Psychiatrist
Date: 2008-10-13 21:43:33
As a Psychiatrist I am deeply offended at the bigotry displayed here by these Scientology people. There were some bad things done in the industry in the past but those have been rectified through research and patient protection laws. These Scientologists need to get up to speed on their information as they are using incorrect data. Modern 21st century Psychiatry is nothing like the Psychiatry of the 19th or early 20th century. These Scientologists just like to dredge up the past because they need to have someone to blame for their problems.
I do have some sympathy for psychiatry?? They have been working for 100yrs plus now setting up their scam and along comes L. Ron Hubbard and throws a spanner in the works. That will teach them for picking on us.
Although the forty-year assault against Scientology® assumed large proportions, the source must be remembered-that small but influential circle of psychiatrists and their government stooges. Nor did the means change over the years: false allegations selectively planted in the media, then seeded into even more federal files as background “fact.”
About 1965 (thereabouts), laws were in effect where a young relative could get their wealthy elder commited to a psychiatric institution, gaining access to their wealth. Because you can not be legally responsible when you are instutituionalized, drugged, and denied communication. Some states (Florida was one, I think) only required the signatures of a law enforcement officer, a psychiatrist and a clergyman to have someone commited against their will. When committed, they could be drugged and therefore, not be able to handle their own affairs. Once in a while the elder was able to legally challenge, but that only happened when a concerned friend, interceeded. Good riddence to bad rubbish, that we don't allow psychiatry's influcance. Who have they cured, anyway?
"These Scientologists need to get up to speed"... we actually are. We know that you started to invent a label for every human condition and to invent psychiatric drugs to "cure" them.
For example when a student is not understanding something he should find the words he does not understand, this would be the scientological answer. The psychiatric answer is to label him with ADD telling the parents that he has a "chemical imbalance" or something else and put him on a "miracle drug". Of course the kid will still not understand the subject but will become a source of income for the psychs.
The aims of psychiatry are basically good. They are towards a civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights.
Scientology turns away people who are mentally ill. COS actively seeks the annihilation of the field of study that aims to help those Scientology cannot help. Didn't Juliette Lewis recently suggest schizophrenics could be cured if they could only get themselves to a petting zoo?
Posted By: Full Metal Psychiatrist
Date: 2008-10-14 05:39:35
Terry I see you complaining when people dredge up dreadful things done in the past by Scientology. Yet you go all the way back to 1965 to find something bad?
Unlike Scientology, which despite being described as "tech" does not evolve, real medicine does evolve. I will not deny that some bad things have been done in the name of medicine and science in the past. I won't try to pretend it doesn't matter because it did to those it happened to. But that is why society has government, to reign in anyone who steps over bounds. Psychiatry has had a long road. Understanding the mind is not an easy thing and it takes years of real research. You do not have just one person who does the research and everyone else follows it like you do in Scientology. In real science you have someone who does research and others who build upon that research to come up with new ways. If Hubbard ran the world from 1950 onward we would still be using vaccuum tubes because anything else would be outside of his view and no one would be building upon research done by others. Only memorizing and regurgitating what Hubbard wrote. Medicine, including psychiatry is evolving and learning from new advances in medical imaging, neuroscience and the discovery of new ways to treat mental illness. Better tecniques and medications and treatments replace older ways of doing things, if necessary. Scientology is stuck on one idea and one set of rules that can not be changed. This is why Scientology will never be regarded as a replacement for real medical practice in society.
Posted By: Dr. Richard Cosgrow, MD, PhD
Date: 2008-10-14 05:46:25
Another psychiatrist here. The amount of bigotry present in this article is ludicrous. The Bill was passed, and there is no "Siberia USA", there are no more pre-frontal lobotomy, and ECT (Electrocutive Therapy) is a shadow of what elcectro-shock therapy.
As for whom psychiatry has cured; well a name everyone here will recognize: Brooke Shields. She made it through post-partum depression.
For the person who assumes that "reading a word and looking at it's defintion" is helping a child to learn, well yes it does. But if that were used to exclusion of other methods, you would skip the parts were children should also lean contexual reasoning, and other things as well.
ADD? Well, it's been rather well proven to be a genuine disorder, maybe a bit too over-diagnosed. Good test for ADD: Give the child coffee. If the child's behavior relaxes, then more than likely does suffer from it. No other child will relax when given caffeine.
To say there is no science in psychiatry is missing the point. Science never "proves" anything. Science hypthothesizes, examines data, and comes to a conlcusion. What the best course of treatment, diagnosis, etc changes over time to best match what scientific data there is.
Scientology, with it's bigoted attacks on scientist likening them to "Commies" and "Nazis" is the most bigoted, hate-filled rant; that attempts to degenerate America back to where we had segregation is "They can go back to where they came from".
Maybe, if Scientology has "the cure" for all of this, subject it to scientific scrutiny. OH WAIT! They did, and it was found to be patent non-sense by a scientist who worked with Lafayette Ronald Hubbard.
The generalization of psychiatrists being "evil" or "Nazi's" is no different than the bigotry that deems black people criminals. Please continue your attacks, it paints the easirest picture of what Scientology is.
Louanne writes about Scientology, just as others write about Democrats, Republicans, Constitutional Issue and what Ron Paul is up too. Louanne takes press releases and information from Scientology sources to paint Scientology in a good light, as any pundit or columnist would do for something they support.
She should be commended for allowing her thoughts and beliefs on certain issues involving Scientology. Due to the nature of this particular blog, readers such as myself are allowed to comment on it, either to complement the author or bring different ideas and different evidence to condem or condone the opinions in the above column.
I support Louanne for doing these columns, it allows critical thinking and open discussion on the media and public relations of the Church of Scientology.
Isn't that what freedom of speech is all about? The freedom to say what you want and for others to openly disagree without fear or reprisal?
Second, Scientology did not "lead the effort". In truth, opposition was led by the Association of Physicians and Surgeons, and Dan Smoot's newsletter. Hubbard actually arrived rather late to that party.
Third, despite the bill's passage, the dire predictions of the bill's opponents actually did not occur.
So, Scientology actually didn't lead the opposition, Scientology actually failed to defeat the bill, and the "facts" that Scientology presented about the results of the bill's passage were false -- other than all that, gee, what did Scientology actually do here?
Once again, Scientology's public utterances are filled with lies, half-truths and pure fiction. Does anyone actually believe anything these folks say anymore?
This is the "crazy Scientology side of events" If the only information you got was from Scientology's "Psyhciatry Industry of Death" exibit from their front group CCHR you would believe that they wanted to turn Alaska into a dungon for mental patients.
The truth is that Alaska didn't have a state run mental health service and they needed to send people to (if I remember right Wyoming) states in the central United States. L.Roh Hubbard was apposed to psychaitry in all forms after being refused help as a verteran in 1947. So he who felt he was going insane in 1947 created his own mental health system he called Dianetics in 1950. (see his book "Dianetics - the mondern science of Mental health")
Long story short L. Ron Hubbard created a mind control cult using techneques of stage hypnosis he previously used to entertain at parties.
With a few well placed reports Hubbard was able to "SPIN" the Alaskan mental health act in a few newspapers. and scare the Baaw-jesus out of half the country. The bill later passed with support from both sides of the political spectrm.
"As a Psychiatrist I am deeply offended at the bigotry displayed here by these Scientology people. There were some bad things done in the industry in the past but those have been rectified through research and patient protection laws."
One's wellbeing shouldn't be left to an "industry", as this "industry" doesn't purport to cure anything, only offer so-called treatments for a profit. Your industry sees a child with the terrible twos, slaps a label on him, and then gives him methamphetamine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn
Also, to call it "bigotry" comparable to persecution of African-Americans is inapt, because you're born to a race/ethnicity but you CHOOSE a PROFESSION.
Lastly, lobotomies and various "mental health treatments" were used throughought the Col War as a smokescreen for eliminating polical adversaries and subserversives.
Bigotry (n) : Stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. (adj Bigoted)
so Full Metal is correct in calling Scientologists bigoted against Psychiatrists. You can be bigoted against hunters, oil tycoons, walmart shoppers, gay people, religious people, french people or medical professionals.
Not that I am calling Scientologists bigoted, I'm just defending the english language from abuse.
Has anyone noticed how Scientology has taken control of Google News? Do a search right now on Google News for scientology and discover how much propaganda they have listed. Also take some time to read what Scientology has done to Google owned companies like; YouTube - by faking DCMA reports, like eBay - in the deletion of negative Scientology book reviews and Paypal accounts listing your personal information for Scientology to gather. We look for the pro's & con's of anything before we buy it - Why not discover the cons of Scientology (?) Especially when Scientologists promote like an info-mercial and attack any criticism ?
Scientologists make generalizations about Psychiatrist . This is to include all of them into one group that Scientology often refers to as "Nazis".
It's an idea equal to the racist opinion that all black people are criminals. To generalize in this way is bigotry. I don't know why that isn't clear to anyone ?
anonymous - "There were some bad things done in the industry in the past but those have been rectified through research and patient protection laws."
How do you "rectify" a frontal lobotomy?
Governments have begin to intervene because Psychiatry is unable to mind its own ethics. We have some "patient protection," laws to prevent Psychiatry's abuse. For example, it is now illegal to electroshock the elderly, the very young, or pregnant woman in some states But that comes about as a result of Psychiatry's refusal to correct its own treatments. Therefore the Public has forced Psychiatry not to harm these high-risk patients.
The author of this piece has on their profile that they do not tolerate bigotry.
To accuse the author, a Scientologist, of being a bigot, when they are clearly outspoken against bigorty would be calling them a hypocrite and would be a personal attack.
I would never condone such a violation of the terms of service nor commit one myself, and I emplore all those here to be careful about calling someone bigoted.
PS : Cheek, you can hold my tounge until friday, but I'll need it back for the weekend.
And now... a healthy dose of truth from yours truly.
First, yes... The Alaska Mental Health Act was brought before the US Congress.
Yes, Alaska did write and pass a bill that had provisions for court ordered psychiatric evaluations and involentary commisions of patients to psychiatric hospitals and aslyums.
So why did the State of Alaska pass a bill in 1956 to get Federal money to open a government hospital of US Government owned land?
BECAUSE ALASKA WASN'T A STATE IN 1956, IT WAS NOT A STATE UNTIL 1959.
Alaska needed to pass laws, set provisions and other such things to become a state, to guarantee the health and safety of the citizens and to get adequate medical and psychiatric care to those who needed it.
Contrary to the article, H.R 6376, was passed by the US House or Representatives on January 18, 1956. This was to use 250 million in federal money to build a mental hospital of federally owned land.
However yes, Psychiatric care in 1959 was not the same since 2008. There was a lot of things that were done then that are not done now.
But never was their any kind of "mental gulag" in the State of Alaska, just a US government run hospital that was turned into a state hospital after Alaska became a state.
Tom, Rex and Red Devo Hat I've got to say, you have done this so many, many times. I've began to expect it.
Alaska became a state in 1959 by the then-president's action of signing a law. Indeed.
The article doesn't speak of Alaska being a state. The references in the article don't speak of Alaska being a state. The references imply Alaska is not a state but is an undeveloped "wasteland" at the time of the psychiatric bill. Which was precisely 1/2 of the point, that access to a psychiatric institution in the Alaskan territory would not fall under state law. The other 1/2 of the point was the wonderful ease; to commit anyone into the Alaskan terrority's "hospital" would be wonderfully easy. And very difficult to get out of because it was remote, it didn't fall under State laws, or even the Federal laws that apply to states. Precisely the point! And well done on realizing a facet of this distateful situation!
I thought open debate and arguing were a sign of critical thinking and showing not only a exercise of the first amendment, but a lack of ignorance.
But I see your point Terryeo. You're trying to prove a conspiracy theroy. Much like someone trying to prove that 9/11 as an inside job.
Find me ONE doctor, nurse, or anyone really who was involved in trasporting patients from the lower 48 to Alaska for comitment to this "hospital."
Also could someone find me an actual copy of HR 8009? The one Louanne scanned for us is both sideways and completly illegible. I can't read it, plain and simple.
That and the only reference I found on all of Google for Overholser, Felix and HR 8009 in the same sentence, is this article.
That and all the other information on his topic are from commentary made in the 1940s
In short, there's not enough evidence to prove to me that this "Hospital" existed, was planned for, or even talked about on the floor of the House of Representatives. I regard the whole thing as a conspiracy theroy to demonize the good people in the field of psychaitry.
The bill was passed because Alaskans were travelling 2000 miles to Portland, Oregon for mental health treatment. As a territory, they needed funds to have their own. Some kooks (white supremecists, mcarthyites, etc.) implied that it was funded so that people in the lower 48 would go to Alaska. Not true, of course, but Co$ believes this sort of wild accusations.
Who psychiatry helped: Read "Many Masters, Many Lives" for a remarkable account of how hypnosis cured a woman's severe panic attacks--without drugs! Did Co$ help Lisa McPherson?
BTW, why does Co$ have no qualms with the 2 drugs that kill 500,000 Americans a year (alcohol and tobacco)?
It is an unfortunate fact that many people understand the value of documentation in the abstract, but when faced with the concrete challenge of providing solid documentation, they have no idea what it means. The anti-semites, for example, think that if they cite or reprint that hoary old forgery, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, it "documents" the threat of the International Jewish Banking Conspiracy. Do they care that this document has long ago been publicly exposed as a fraud and forgery? No! It says what they want to believe in, and it's in print, and a certain kind of naive or deluded mind believes that's the same thing as documentation.
Now, not all those who are opposed to psychiatry display this cargo-cult approach to documentation, where the outward form is all-important and functional aspects such as authenticity, credibility, etc. never appear on the radar. However, it's a hallmark of the Church of Scientology's crusade against the "psychs". With a straight face, they "document" their claims about the anti-social goals of psychiatry by citing Brain-Washing: A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics (a clumsy fraudulent document which is to psychiatry what The Protocols are to the Jewish people.) They cite L. Ron Hubbard, and Lyndon LaRouche, and other figures who are prone to make very exciting allegations about psychiatry but who unfortunately developed amazing shyness whenever the subject of providing proof for their allegations came up (the whole outward-form-vs.-core-function thing again.) It seems there is no source too dubious for a Scientologist to give it their full credulity, if it says what they want to hear! The supposed "summary of an address by J. R. Rees" provided by Louanne is more subtle than Brain-Washing (which also purports to be a "summary of an address") but still, anyone with common sense reading a document in which a purported member of group X exhorts purported fellow members of group X "let us members of group X continue to infiltrate social organizations, as we have already begun! Let us attack 'the teaching profession' and 'the Church'! Let us 'imitate the Totalitarians' and 'organize fifth column activity' and 'very secretly be fifth columnists'! Let us discuss the best way to put forth our 'propaganda'!" -- anyone with a lick of common sense, reading such a document, would cast a skeptical eye upon it and question whether it had even ever been seen by a member of group X, let alone originating with a member of group X. And it goes without saying that no one with a lick of common sense would use a document of this description as "documentation" for an attack on group X, unless the provenance of the document was impeccable.
What is the provenance of this supposed "summary of an address" that Louanne presents? We don't know. Louanne says not a word about the matter.
It would be tedious and pointless to go through all the flaws in Louanne's attempts at "documentation", just as it would be tedious and pointless to enumerate all the different reasons a tortoise cannot enter the dog show. I will simply point out two points that are especially interesting: firstly, Louanne cites Ellen McClay for her claim that the bill was defeated in late 1956. Reading the description of McClay's self-published second book, reading how McClay equates "progressive education" with "the painting of the United States as 'the Great Satan'", reading how the weightiest author blurbs she could obtain were from a retired LAPD Sergeant and an "American Missionary" and reading how her professional experience is primarily in the field of health food management -- I find myself unconvinced of McClay's credentials as a political analyst. And yet even if McClay's credentials were utterly impeccable, it would not matter, because in point of fact even McClay acknowledges that the bill was not defeated in late 1956, but passed. Louanne might offer credulity, or misplaced faith, as a justification for echoing the false claims David Miscavige made on Nightline that the bill had been defeated. What possible excuse could she offer for echoing the false claims made by David Miscavige and falsely attributing them to McClay?
The other interesting point is that Louanne absolutely fails to mention the matter of "the million acres" -- even though her sources discuss it. The fact is that many of the parties who opposed H.R. 6376 erroneously believed that the million acres which were to be transferred to the Alaska Mental Health Trust in support of the program must be the site of whatever new facilities were called for by the Bill. Many of the Bill's opponents thus showed that they had opposed the Bill without even having examined it very carefully, because the text of the Bill makes very clear that the million acres were to be a land grant -- a very common way for the Federal government to fund projects in the then-Territory of Alaska. Interesting, then, that Louanne makes no mention of this widespread error, and how it identified those activists whose furor exceeded their understanding. I wonder if it could have anything to do with the fact that David Miscavige was one of those who displayed their carelessness in this fashion?
Scientologists are welcome to the view that all knowledge of the mind that has not been approved by, or emanated from the maw of, L Ron Hubbard is pseudoscience.
Perhaps all those intelligent people who get top marks at school, go to university to perform scientific research, and study long, and hard, and freely from the well of human knowledge are just fools for not basing their opinions exclusively, certainly and inalterably on the fancies of this particular man. It is as if they don't realise that everything important about the mind has already been discovered by a man who didn't need no fancy scientific research in order to travel to other planets.
But, surely, surely, the irony of a Scientologist projecting the slur of 'pseudoscience' on anything can not escape anyone, can it?
I love your use of words. By the way, did you invent or adapt this particularly pleasing expression - "it would be tedious and pointless to enumerate all the different reasons a tortoise cannot enter the dog show."?
Scientology is leading a tortoise around, but I don't think they are going to get a ribbon.
"Interesting, then, that Louanne makes no mention of this widespread error, and how it identified those activists whose furor exceeded their understanding. I wonder if it could have anything to do with the fact that David Miscavige was one of those who displayed their carelessness in this fashion? " - AF
Perhaps Scientologists only accidentally brought him into this story, inviting scutiny of his seeming confusion. His name has been removed from the citation of references.
Scientologists, you can't tell us if Mr Miscavige was confused, can you? Have you ever known him to be wrong?
Posted By: Full Metal Psychiatrist
Date: 2008-10-15 05:44:32
I think the response of the Scientologists proves my point here. They have no understanding of real science or progress. They can only dwell in Hubbard's world of the 50's and 60's. Visit any modern clinic and you will see that there are no lobotomies as they have been replaced with therapy and in severe cases even neurosurgery can be done. Hospitals today are not like they are shown in Hollywood where you have people climbing bars of cages and howling in the hallways. They haven't been that way in decades. The ham fisted ways of the past have been replaced by modern medicine. There are alternative treatments available for most problems if people would simply talk to their doctor about it. If they are uncomfortable being prescribed a drug or a certain treatment, they should discuss alternatives. If Scientology wants to be an alternative, that is fine, but they need to recognize that Scientolgy does not work for everyone and never will. They need to submit their methods for scientific scruitiny. They need to be properly licensed and trained to work with the mentally or physically ill. Right now they are not and thus they work outside of the very rules they say need to be placed on the medical community. There have been no peer reviewed studies to back up their claims. They will not let investigators in to make sure they are following proper procedures. They will not admit to mistakes of the past. We have. Now Scientology it is up to you to own up to your troubles like adults.
L Ron Hubbard was very clear when he said criminals always accuse others of the crimes they commit; they always start with the accusations. By LRH's own logic, the logic of the church of Scientology, those accusing the Psychaitrists and Anonymous of crimes must themselves be guilty. LRH also said the more voracious the attacks the guiltier the person doing the attacks. The article is full of accusations as are the follow up posts in support of it. Sad really.
RE : "Red Devo Hat, psychiatry is a pseudoscience that tries to pass of as a science. Just like Anonymous are troll's who pretend to support human rights."
--SUDBURY - A group of demonstrators yesterday angered passersby, prompting them to shout out car windows and make obscene gestures at the sign holders, who demanded a list of medications taken by young murder suspect John Odgren.
The group said its goal was to educate the community about the dangers of psychiatric drugs, but most said the demonstration five days after the death of Lincoln-Sudbury freshman James Alenson was ill-timed and inappropriate.--
Who protests the grieving? Placing the fault on the society as a whole for a murder, rather than the murderer?
I mean other than self-righteous religious zealots who see only one way of looking at the world and anyone else who questions them or disagrees with them or practices something counter to their religion is evil and criminal and inhuman and therefore must be accosted and challenged publicly while a community mourns the loss of a young man taken before his time?
And by that I mean... Fred Phelps and the WBC protesting the funeral of dead American Soldiers... but that's a whole other kettle of fish. It has nothing to do with Scientology or CCHR protesting a murdered highschool student.
terryeo: You qouted me as saying something I did not. You're a troll and a nitwit.
Red Devo Hat: Actually it's spelled inApt, as in inappropriate usage of the term. However, you are inEpt in your command of the English language.
Others: I'm not a Scientologist. I've been involved in Chanology since shortly after it began. I was a frequent poster back when we had /xenu/, and was involved in February 10th, both recruiting online and protesting on the ground. Psychiatry is a pseudo-science and Scientology is a sham. Being anti-scn=!pro-psych, and I'm sure many anons feel the same. So-called mental health "sciences" have always been the dominion of a power structure. In earlier times the dominant paradigm was religion, so priests ruled over it with witchcraft and demonic possession accusations. Then it became the horrors of lobotomies and confinement under government, and today it is under the domain of corporations. This one school district sent a little boy's parents to court for taking their 7 year old child off methylphenidate, aka Ritalin: http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature/2000/09/25/medicate/
Look, I'm against Co$ but if you people try to bring the anti-psych thing in as a central issue I'd rather side with the vicious cult. Mental health has been used as a front for government control and corporate profits for far longer than Hubbard's scheme existed, and in terms of the psychopathic control, death toll, and horrors of the two combined Scn is the lesser of two evils. If Scn took control of the planet then Scn would be the greater of two evils. Like fish in water, none of you seem to comprehend the way psychobabble has shaped our culture. Just look at the "tinfoil hat" accusations being hurled around here. Psychiatry is a pseudo-science that wants to replace religion, whereas Scientology is a scam that wants to be religion.
To Scientologists: If you want to be legit in the eyes of Anonymous and the world, prove it. You've got an SP at the top of your command structure who's making all of you out-ethics and downstat. What have you uncovered other than the Alaska Bill? That was a LOT longer ago than Snow White. Look, I personally don't find it to be a bad thing that gov't offices were infiltrated because, lets face it, they were a bunch of criminals testing LSD on civilians during the days of MKULTRA. I know that Scn was heavily involved in the CIA's Project Stargate, the training of "psychic" spies via CRV and techniques. Show us what you've uncovered through your covert activities. What have you uncovered as Scientologists?
Lou, terryeo, others in-Scn: One last thing. If your doctrines are correct, have you ever considered that maybe after LRH kicked his MEST body he came back in a fresh GE back in '86? That maybe he was testing how you'd apply KSW while he was supposedly "gone" and how Scn could work without his further guidance? Ever consider that perhaps one of these pimply faced cyberterrorists would want you to tell DM that the Commodore wants his chair back?
Again, Scn belongs to mankind. Release the data on the SP/PTS activities you've uncovered in government, "religion", the private sector, etc.
Lou, terryeo, others in-Scn: One last thing. If your doctrines are correct, have you ever considered that maybe after LRH kicked his MEST body he came back in a fresh GE back in '86? That maybe he was testing how you'd apply KSW while he was supposedly "gone" and how Scn could work without his further guidance? Ever consider that perhaps one of these pimply faced cyberterrorists would want you to tell DM that the Commodore wants his chair back?
Again, Scn belongs to mankind. Release the data on the SP/PTS activities you've uncovered in government, "religion", the private sector, etc.
I'm sorry, I'll say I believe you in a few doctors trying to influence politics. Done. But the arguements against the treatment of the mentally ill is rediculous, and as some stated bigotted. Before these REAL Sciences of the mind, a person with true mental disorders was subject to religious scrutiny and to quote from wikipedia, "Religious leaders and others returned to using early versions of exorcisms to treat mental disorders which often utilized cruel, harsh, and other barbarous methods". Then in the middle ages places were built to basically house the victims with no cure at all. It wasn't until 1656 that the actually application of the scientific menthod has been used to study and treat mental disorders. As with all medicine, it started off rough. Nothing was understood. To draw a parrallel to other medicine examine the use of leaches to bleed. Or that doctors didn't even use anesthic until the 1900's. Or that penicillin has only been around about 80 years. However, I think we can all agree here that medicine (other than mental) is much better today than it was 10 years ago, which was better than 10 years before that, etc. Science and medicine are always evolving and getting better. Pysciatry, is part of this. The same methods are used to study and adapt practice as any other medicine. Unfortunately, Scientology claims to be the ONLY science of the mind, so all others, must be wrong. To be a true believer in Scientology, you have to believe this (without going into the whole CCHR Museum lie parade even.)
By the way, if it weren't for psychiatry we wouldn't have the knowledge we have now about brain waves, stimulus reactions, hormone control (like from the pituitary gland), stress, etc. Its funny that Scientology has "Free Stress Tests." But knowledge about stress can find its roots in psyciatry and psychology.
Sorry, rambling, my point is, all Medicine has crude, and yes cruel beginnings. The point is they move on and better themselves. Scientology is not doing this as is evidence by their 60 year old hate for mental health treatment, or things like the continued use of fair game.
I forget to mention--aspirin is banned by Co$. One of the safest, most effective analgesics ever discovered, a lot safer and healthy than nicotine. Why Does Co$ do this? They want you to pay $$ in auditing when you have a headache instead of taking a simple aspirin.
Good point on the history of religious treatment of mental illness, TG.
Scientology faithfully continues the religious tradition of casting out demons but, in a nod to 'science', uses new terms for it.
In the scientology theology, the renegade souls possessing a person's body are called "body thetans". Scientology helps people to cast these demons out. Still got problems? Must be more body thetans stuck to you. It's a lifelong project. You've got to pay for it with your life and/or money.
PS You are not supposed to find this out until you've travelled the proper gradient of scientology indoctrination to 'OT' , or you might not believe it. Oh, and you'll need to keep coming back to get rid of the as-yet-undiscovered body thetans. If only this were a joke. Practising scientologists are commanded not to acknowledge that this is the truth of scientology, never mind that all this crap is recorded in Mr Hubbard's own words. Ask a scientologist who has escaped, like Jason Beghe.
Good luck to anyone caught up in this insanity. No wonder Lisa McPherson was in such a desperate state, after these charlatans had got to her. No wonder Tom Cruise is off his nut.
PPS Dear Scientologists, once you realise that your body thetans were invented by L Ron Hubbard, you will realise that the only place they exist is in your imagination. They are "mocked up". Just like demons. There are no demons under your bed and no "body thetans" in your body. Deep down, you know this already, don't you? What do you think?
Lex - in response to your question: What do you think?
I think the situation can be understood. I think if you study the information through, and understand its parts, bit by bit, I think it can be understood.
A parallel situation that comes to mind -- is a legal document. An average person can work their way through a legal document and understand the thing, but (at least for me) it might require a dictionary, lots of dictionary.
Unwanted emotion, persistent but unwanted thought, a song repeating itself within the mind, all of these can be understood and handled. And this includes "demons" too, these things can be understood. An individual, be it you or me or anyone, through persistent effort and a little guidence, can overcome these things. That's what I think.
I make no reference to Scientlogy here, when I say that I think you are right that we can make worthwhile efforts to understand and 'handle' our thoughts.
A legal document is a fitting analogy to Scientology, I think. Legal documents are sometimes written in an obscure manner by incompetent and deluded people. They might look impressive, but they end up being worse than useless.
Confusing scientology with enlightenment is like confusing the Constitution with the nasty fine print on a cell phone contract, in my view.
Posted By: Dr. Richard Cosgrow, MD, PhD
Date: 2008-10-16 11:00:32
Wow, to hear a scientologist call Psyhiatry a "pseudo-science" is laughable indeed when you take into account scientologist calling Dianetics a "science". Very laughable.
And to the poster that asks,"How can one rectify a pre-frontal lobotomy?" The answer is easy:Science has found better methods to deal with behavioral issues. Our knowledge of medicine imrpoved. And the number has been grossly exagerated by the Church of Scientology. In close to a century (90 years plus/minus 5 years), in the US 40,000 were performed. Works out to 445 per year. And only done when all other treament courses failed.
If we expand globally, in it's 90 year life as a procedure, we are up to 786 per year(average).
Now let's compare this to Scientology. 20 deaths directed related to participation in Scientology. Most during the "ntrospection Rundown, which releases drugs and chemicals from "fat cells", now that's great science, huh? And it"runs" radiation out of the fat cells too. Funny, never saw it mentioned inany Biology lecture, or paper about radiation being able to be stored anywhere, seeing as Radiation is the energy associated with the movement of sub-atomic particles.
So, who's more dangerous? And why the bigotry against Psychiatry, which is scientifically testable, or scientology; which claims to be completely scientific, but doesn't allow anyone to see anything that's testable.
SHOW ME A CLEAR. SHOW ME AN OT. The JREF is willing to pay out millions if you do, and you'd be universally accepted by every scientific community.
Dr Cosgrow, what you failed to mention is that while Psychiatry has performed as you say 786 frontal labotomies throughout history, how many are performed today? Do Psychs still shove knives into people's eye holes? (The fact that they used to judge how far to cut by when the orbital broke is so disturbing btw.) I doubt it. Scientology still holds onto its beliefs from 60 years ago. Psychiatry does not. Terryeo will say "See! 786 a year and all you can say is 20!" But that number will rise as they hold onto their beliefs. Like Uwe, who just died in RPF because CoS didn't give him proper medical attention. As Psychiatry is one of the newest real sciences we can trace its cruel beginnings to not long ago. I doubt any Pysch will disagree that the methods were wrong. Still to discredit a complete science that HAS helped mankind understand our most complex organ, and continues to do so, is completely dumb.
This is kind of my beef about why CoS will fail. All other religious ideologies bank on information that cannot be proven right or wrong. No one can prove God, or Moses parting a Sea, or someone got golden tablets from god, or that they will get virgins when they die. Its all intangible. Hubbard created a shelf life on Scientology by trying to make it scientific, but hey, thats what sci-fi is all about. By holding beliefs that can easily (and have been) disproven by science CoS will continue to dwindle. If body thetans existed, then shouldn't some other device other than tin cans be able to pick them up?
Oh also because the Marcabians have more money because they have gold(the most valuable metal) from so many systems and their pharmacuetical fronts to keep funding Psychiatry, Nazis, Government, and Anonymous.
TG - Can we agree the scientific method is what we use to create reliable, demonstable knowledge? More specifically, we take some chunk or piece of physical universe and we put it through some kind of action and observe the same results again, and again, no matter where the experiment takes place and no matter who performs the experiment? This is scientific method, right?
If this is scientific method, could you please tell us all how to apply that method to a thought? Because a thought, when examined, becomes modified. Thoughts are fleeting, unreliable, and unlikely to reproduce themseleves for the experimentator's amusement.
Likewise with study technology. The barriers to study that one individual experiences are likely to be different than the barriers another person experiences. So yeah, that sums it up, although I've attempted to expand the reason for your conclusion.
Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
Publish results
Retest (frequently done by other scientists)
Terryeo, number 8 is the most important part. Comon, talk to CoS, get them to let the Scientific community test the results CoS has found. Do this, and if unbiased scientists support the claims, then maybe I need a few courses.
Scientologic Method:
1. Define the objective.
2. Write your own information and resources (Hubbard does have the most works according to Guiness)
3. Form money making scheme
4. Perform experiments and collect data
5. Analyze data.
6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve your own ends and goals.
7. Sell Results for $$$$
8. NEVER RETEST!!! TO RESTEST IS TO DOUBT HUBBARD AND YOU ARE AN SP IF YOU RETEST WHAT HUBBARD SAID!
Oh sorry TO, forgot to address your question about measuring thoughts and how we could possibly do this. You said, "Thoughts are fleeting, unreliable, and unlikely to reproduce themseleves for the experimentator\'s amusement."
Well, tell me if I\'m wrong here everyone, but I thought the study of thoughts is the realm of Psychology. I thought Psychiatry is the middle ground between Psychology and Neurology. So less, "I hate my mom because she abused me"(Pyschology) and more "I hate my mom because when I think about her it creates an electric reaction in my brain releasing adrenaline that increase my anxiety"(Psychiatry). Am I wrong here?
Posted By: Full Metal Psychiatrist
Date: 2008-10-16 15:12:18
I have yet to see a reply to my last post. Scientologists, when are you going to own up to your own past mistakes? I understand that there have been a number of deaths over the years in Scientology. In fact I was just informed that there has been another just this week.
"Like Uwe, who just died in RPF because CoS didn't give him proper medical attention."
Unfortunatly before can call it murder, you first need a body, or a coroners report, or a grave site or something other than his brother posting on an internet forum.
I'm sure the researchers on Nolan can find the appropriate paperwork. But until that happens, you can't say the Church of Scientology denied someone medical attention which lead to their death, without it being called an "unconfirmed" report.
At least we have brough out actual proof sometimes even VIDEO proof several times in this thread. I've yet to see you Scientologists back up one of your claims with anything other than innuendo so far.
Posted By: Dr. Richard Cosgrow, MD, PhD
Date: 2008-10-17 07:20:48
TG, thanks for clarifying for me on the last point. There are sporadic lobotomies perform throught out the globe (Less than 10 per year) in very un-developed countries today. I forgot that point. But yes, lobotomies have been done away with, and now are not considered as a treatment course.
Applying the scientific method to a "thought" , well that's impossible. Nor is it desirable, lest we get a branch of the government known as "The Thought Police".
What we can apply the scientific method to is this::
1)Subject A has shown these personality characteristics, as determined by multiple tests.
2)Treatment Course 1 is currently being researched as a course for this set of personality disfuntions.
3)Try Treatment Course 1.
4) Determine if Treatment Course 1 successful in correcting disfunctions, does it mitigate, or non-effective.
5) If succesful, test on Subject B, else go back to research to try and find a better one.
Of course, approvals for new treatments is a complex topic, requiring years of study, proposing, changing, more research, more proposals, and finally, a government approval to TEST it on a single patient.
That's right. Years of research, study, and refutations by experts in and medical feild, before a single human test is even considered.
Scientology on the other hand:
1) Drink lots of Rum
2) Pop pink and grey pills
3) Call that research.
4) Try and sell it to everyone as science.
4a) Repeat 1-4 until sufficiently insane.
5) Take Vistaril and die.
6) Call that "Dropping your body to continue research".
I think I trust the science method a bit more than Scientology...
Dr. Cosgrow, Scientology does make up results that support itself. Look at Narconon (yep, Scientology). At the end of the course a person must write how they beat drug addiction thanks to Narconon. Whether they truly beat drugs or not does not matter, all that does is if the person writes that they are better. Once CoS has the written word, they take it as fact and promote that the person is cured. This is almost always not true and Narconon has a real rehab rate lower than other clinics that employ mental doctors and follow best practice procedures. To A Scientologist, they have tested The Purification Rundown over and over and always see results saying it works...because the person wrote down they are cured...because if they don't say they are cured they are forced to stay, or sent back to prison, or don't get that early parole, etc. Its like asking someone "You like Vanilla ice cream the most, right? If you don't say you do I will punch you." and then touting that everyone loves vanilla.
My point here, is CoS says what they have tested is verified, but the way they test is built by Hubbard to always make it look like it works, even if (most of the time) it doesnt. This is true with Narconon, Criminon, The E-m
