Topic: Presidential Campaign 2008
Who Should the GLBT Community Vote for President? The Democratic and the Republican parites continually work against the GLBT community. Sure, they give in with a small crumb here and a small crumb there; however, that is just wrong! Either you are or are not in the camp of non-discriminatory reason. That's like the Clinton "Don't ask, Don't tell" BS. I mean what is that? A slap in the face to the GLBT community...by Karl Dickey
(libertarian)
Wednesday, October 8, 2008
One thing, of many, that I find amazing is people often vote for candidates NOT in line with their own values.
For instance, if a gay person, who is working hard to legalize same-sex marriage in their state, votes for McCain or Obama, then you'd have to stand back and ask why? Why would that person vote for someone clearly not on the same page as themselves? Perhaps they feel they have a limited choice of either Republican or Democrat. FYI: Florida will have 13 presidential candidates on the ballot Nov. 4th.
This not only is inaccurate; I argue that this thought process is the root of a serious crack in our government system. It is what keeps the two party system in power -- even when they work against the very people that put them in power. Sure there are many arguments to vote for either Obama or McCain, however they all lack one key ingredient -- reason. One will say, "Oh, I agree with that other candidate, but he can't win, so I'm going to vote for the Democrat or Republican." Another may say, "I never hear about that candidate on the news so I'm not going to vote for him." Etc., Etc., Etc...the list of excuses is endless.
At the end of the day, you are the one that has to live with your vote for President of the United States. Are you going to vote your conscience or vote for who's popular. Have you even researched the candidates fully, or are you going to let the media decide for you? Have you really thought through your decision? If you have answered "no" to any of the previous questions, then you owe it not only to yourself, but to the Nation to fully investigate the candidates that will be on the ballot.
If you're a Republican, and you vote straight down the ballot for all Republicans, you have done yourself a disservice and frankly, show a lack of interest and knowledge. Perhaps your candidates are the best choices and most in line with your values, however perhaps they are not. You will not know until you check out the other candidates.
So, back to the gay individual choosing Obama on November 4th: this is a tragic mistake because Obama does not and will not support gay marriage. Even the Democratic Party & Republican Party don't support same-sex marriage.
Who does? Believe it or not the Libertarian Party and Bob Barr do -- I know it's a shocker but, look here: [link edited for length]
Actually, we believe you shouldn't have to run to the government asking permission to marry in the first place. But, for so long as we are, we don't feel it should be discriminatory.
Only the Libertarian Party fully supports GLBT rights. The Democratic and the Republican parites continually work against the GLBT community. Sure, they give in with a small crumb here and a small crumb there; however, that is just wrong! Either you are or are not in the camp of non-discriminatory reason. That's like the Clinton "Don't ask, Don't tell" BS. I mean what is that? A slap in the face to the GLBT community; but, yet they continue to come out in droves for the Democrats.
Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to you it is time to join a political party that is completely in line with your values and no longer settle for the status quo of the two larger parties.
Make a statement this November 4th by not only join the Libertarian Party, but also vote for Bob Barr!
The views expressed in this
article are those of Karl Dickey only and do not represent
the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates. Karl Dickey is
solely responsible for the contents of this article and is not an
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If the Libertarian Party supports the "GLBT Community" (ie., sexual deviants who despise the way God made mankind), then they've just lost all my respect.Marriage is the union of ONEMAN and ONE WOMAN, period. Anything else is not a marriage but a deviation from the established and healthy relationship between men and women as far as family is concerned.
Our children don't need to be exposed to the homosexual lifestyle either. I'm so disgusted with every one of you who support the homosexuals, especially you spineless TV networks that cave in to the pressure of the "GLBT Community" and all who publicly promote their cause. It's getting to the point where I can't just set the remote down and watch TV anymore. I have to continually hold on to the remote so I can press "Mute" when an advert for a TV show comes on showing two guys or two girls kissing or embracing, or a commercial comes on about how their "love was misunderstood" or how they "suffer injustice". Give me a break! You choose a perverted lifestyle - then you complain when you're called on it. Pathetic.
Everyone has one mother and one father. It’s never been anything different. Your GLBT lifestyle cannot create anything. It only promotes diseases like AIDS. It alienates you and your kind from the loving God who created you in the first place. He didn’t create you to be homosexual; he created you to be free from that and all other sins by relying on His son Jesus. Like it or not, that is the truth.
Look, I know you all aren't going to go away, or repent and ask God for forgiveness. Can you at least please just keep it in the closet? We normal people just don't want to see it. If you won't do for us that one little favor, then please do it for the children so they don't have to be subjected to your disgusting behavior. As amoral as your life style choice is, can you at least spare our children? Thank you.
It never ceases to amaze me when someone spews so much hate. May I ask Bob, what has a GLBT person ever done to you? How does gay marriage affect you? Why is it you take this issue so personally you feel the need to violently attack the GLBT community? You are not very bright either Bob. Sexual orientation is not a choice. PEOPLE DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY! Hate is cause by fear, fear from the unknown, the unknown is ignorance and ignorance is bliss, so rather than spitting out the typical rhetoric, educate yourself first, then base your comments on fact. How do you know it's a choice, and please Bob, you didn't write the Bible, nor were you around when it was written, so facts please, no speculation. On your comment about AIDS, do you know the statistics? Do you know where it comes from? Your ignorance on the issue is scary Bob. You call yourself normal, well Bob, anyone filled with the amount of hate you have shown here is far from "normal". You really should seek mental help. What is your level of education Bob? Bob, whether you know it or not, someone you love is gay. Whether you know them or not, someone gay is fighting for rights from which you will benefit. I am a straight man Bob, but comfortable enough in my sexuality to realize what others do does not affect me. You Bob, are the pathetic one!
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2008-10-08 13:25:08
I hope most GLBTs will vote as individuals rather than as part of some herd all looking for a safe tree to stand under. Anyone who loves liberty should be seeking to maximize their effectiveness by supporting candidates who uphold the Constitution, smaller federal government and more local power to be DIFFERENT.
The problem with identity politics is that it is often associated with seeking out candidates who offer to use the force of government to protect said identity groups. I see no distinction between lobbying for pro-gay legislation, pro-atheist legislation, pro-farmer or pro-Christian legislation at the Federal level.
Liberty and small government demand tolerance because people have to work things out on a community by community basis when we abandon our love of big government.
Oppression and big government demand intolerance, uniformity and conformity. The more people tend to form herds and identity groups, the easier they are to irradiate and assimilate when the conscience less bureaucracy finds them.
Bob is a shining example of an intolerant oppressor hiding behind his personal faith as a justification for his hatred and intolerance. Go with God, Bob, but go, go far away.
Fortunately Bob represents a tiny minority of Christians. In my experience the vast majority are both tolerant and unaccepting. Love the sinner, hate the sin, that kind of deal. Bob is intolerant and unaccepting because he thinks he has a right to impose his personal faith on others. The thing the Bobs of the world never understand is that their Faith, their passion, their emotion and their endorphins, do not affect anyone but themselves. They have unrealistic expectations that everyone should think just like Bob does. Most people, Christian or not, have some capacity for understanding that there are things in this real world that they can't square with their personal image of God and God's will. Since they can't blame God, they must blame the incongruent thing, person or behavior for having some evil purpose. Maintaining, patching and reinforcing their personal image of God and God's will can become an all-consuming activity for some people. No wonder they sound angry and hateful. Maintaining their illusions of grandeur require they hate things that challenge it and the maintenance begins to become their only semblance of life. I'd be bitter too if I though someone was forcing me to waste my precious life patching an illusion 24 hours a day.
What is, is. Deal with it, Bob. Maybe God made homosexuals just for you, Bob, personally, in hopes that you will learn love and tolerance.
Wow, you guys crack me up! But, this is America and we are all extitled to our opinion and that\'s the beauty of this forum. God bless America! (It would be great if America blessed God, but I\'m afraid this country\'s a big far gone for that to happen.)
James:
Look who\'s calling who a bigot! You call me filled with hate? Who called who a bigot and pathetic? Wow, that\'s funny! It\'s so typical of liberals.What\'s with this \"violently attack the GLBT community?\" How does typing on my keyboard a message to an obscure internet forum constitute violence? Do you know what violence is? Or are you so liberal that everyone\'s opinion that differs from yours makes you into a victim?\"Sexual orientation is not a choice\"? It sure is, just as adultery or doing drugs are. The fact is that thre is no \"gay gene\", people aren\'t born homosexual, but that doesn\'t fit into your agenda so it has to be discounted as false.I got a real good laugh out of \"you didn\'t write the Bible, nor were you around when it was written\" - Wow, that\'s a good one. You really got me there. So, how do you know, say, Jupiter exists? You haven\'t been there. You weren\'t around when it was made. How do you know anything? I’ll tell you how: You educate yourself about. If you can\'t be there, then you read about it. Then you choose to believe or not believe what you read. Duh.It really amazes me the hypocrisy you liberals use to hang on to your precious little philosophy. :)
Jahfre Fire Eater:
\"Liberty and small government demand tolerance\" - well it sure seems that an opposing point of view is not so tolerated. I guess what you really meant was \"Liberty and small government demand tolerance as long as it fits with my liberal agenda\". Now that would be a whole lot more accurate. What a hypocrite.\"Bob is a shining example of an intolerant oppressor hiding behind his personal faith as a justification for his hatred and intolerance. Go with God, Bob, but go, go far away.\" Okay, how am I oppressing? I don\'t like having a certain behavior thrown at me on the public broadcast arena with no warning. I don\'t have to like it. You seem to be insinuating that I do. So who\'s the oppressed and who\'s the oppressor? I\'m asking to get that behavior back into its own arena so that the rest of us don\'t have to see it. Whether you agree or not, it is deviant. I personally don\'t like it and I don’t have to. I also don\'t like having to explain to my 9 year old that men don\'t really act like that, or that girls aren’t supposed to do that to each other - that it\'s just a TV show. NO, I am not going to tell my son that it’s “normal”. That would be a lie, just like Sants Claus and the Tooth Fairy. (No pun intended.)TV and movies are rated according to their content - V for violence, S for sexual content, etc. You can see it up front and make a decision as to whether you want to watch it. There\'s no rating for homosexual content and there should be. That way it can be avoided by those of us who don\'t care to watch it. What’s with this \"Bobs of the world\" stuff? Wow, talk about your delusions of grandeur. You don\'t know me. You don\'t know anything about me. You write \"Bob is this\" and \"Bob is that\". You have no idea who I am. I’ll educate you a little right now: None of what you wrote is true. None. Zero. Nada. Not a single sentence. That makes you the ignorant one, doesn\'t it?
In summary:
You liberals are the ones with unrealistic expectation that everyone should think like you. I write an opposing point of view and your panties get all bunched up and you attack me personally. I knew some of you would - that\'s the only reason I came back to check on this post. With all your big-winded writings, you\'re no more than another narrow-minded liberal imposing your self-proclaimed intellectual elitism upon those of us who don\'t buy your \"progressive\" stance.
Yes, the Libertarian Party did support the proper position on gay rights. But Bob Barr is not the Party and he has explicitly rejected the Party on that issue and embraced a "state's rights" view. It is one reason that I have left the LP and won't vote for it now.
As for gay people and how they should vote -- perhaps nobody is the best choice. No candidate has the guts to endorse gay marriage equality and all of them want to pick your pockets. Stay home this year. But Bob Barr most certainly is not an acceptable choice either to gay people or to real libertarians for that matter.
If God needs America's blessing, we're in deep doodoo, Bob.
I think that the greatest enemy of Christianity is Christians themselves. The loudest ones ruin it for the rest of them. Christ and his disciples teach love and tolerance. Love the sinner, hate the sin, etc.
"You liberals are the ones with unrealistic expectation that everyone should think like you. I write an opposing point of view and your panties get all bunched up"
Uh...pot, this is kettle calling, you are black. I've never heard such incredible hypocrisy as I do from a lot of Christians. I haven't been to church in a long time, because they are chock-full of intolerant selfish jerks who don't act like Christians at all when it comes to dealing with other people. Don't they realize that their behavior is self-defeating of their evangelist cause and runs contrary to that which they profess to believe?
Some Christians say:
"The Bible itself is intolerant, and true followers of God's word should be as well." -Bob Jones, III (of Bob Jones University)
But the Bible says:
"Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude." [I Corinthians]
"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." [I John]
"Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools. [Ecclesiastes 7:9]"
"My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. [James 1:19-20]"
"Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. [Ephesians 4:32]"
"And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? [Matthew 7:3]"
"Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion [2 Corinthians 9:7]"
"A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle. [Proverbs 18:19]"
Posted By: Robert Timsah
Date: 2008-10-09 13:19:53
I believe the true libertarian position is that government shall make NO laws establishing religious marriage. The problem for a libertarian is that we currently DO MAKE FEDERAL LAWS sanctioning heterosexual marriage. This creates a dichotomy, because you can't legally justify why you would allow for heterosexual marriage, but not homsexual marriage other than through your own personal religious views. You are violating libertarian principle's if you still justify heterosexual-only marriage because of your personal religious beliefs. At that point you are nothing more than another Republican/Christianist. I know the churches have been hitting heavy on this, leading a lot of you to feel like the world is going to go to hell if we allow gay marriage, but it should not prostitute your beliefs and principles. If it makes you feel any better, weather our government sanctions gay marriage or not does not change the fact that they will still be living as married GAY couples anyway. And now some scripture;
"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." The disciples said to him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry" He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." (Matt 19: 8-12)
Eunuchs included men who were obviously what we'd today call homosexual. Those clearly were what Jesus referred to as "eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb."
As a gay man, I am with the author 100% and my partner and I will both be voting for Barr on the Libertarian line.
Conservative gays tend to value other issues (gun control, taxes, spending) higher than "gay" issues, and so will go along wtih McCain as the percieved lesser of two evils.
Liberal gays know that Dems provide a cash cow in the form of jobs and special interest money, and are willing to sacrifice political victories for the money.
Only Libertarians offer me the chanec to live my own life my own way, without anyone else's finger wagging in my face.
I am of the opinion that government getting completely out of the marriage license business altogether, both homosexual and heterosexual, would clear up this problem very quickly. Let us leave marriage up to the private sector and its institutions to decide, whether they be churches or some other institution that is considered to have moral authority over such matters. Lots of companies already offer benefits to same-sex couples without the law forcing them to do so; if one disagrees with such policies, then one can take their business elsewhere.
As it is now, there are plenty of churches that will marry a same-sex couple, so same-sex "marriage" is not really the issue; a lesbian coworker of mine used to have a picture from her wedding on her desk back like 12 years ago (in Texas, no less). What is the issue is whether federal, state, or local governments will grant such private marriages a government-backed license and the automatic legal privileges that come with it. It is my understanding that most of the legal privileges can be arranged outside of any kind of marriage already anyway.
If government will not get out of marriage altogether, the least they could do would be to send it back down to the states to decide in a constitutional fashion. The issue is way too contentious to force a one-size-fits-all solution on all parties involved in the entire country at the federal level. The tyranny of the majority, whichever that side may be, is most likely to show through at the federal level than at the state level.
On a final note, if the Christian church wishes to address the issues of homosexual behaviors and subsequent same-sex marriage, I believe it is far more productive for it to be through the loving presentation of the Gospel rather than the force and coercion of the State. In addition, Christians should try setting a far better example in their heterosexual marriages than they are today; one should always remove the wooden 2x4 from their own eye before offering to take the speck out of another's eye. And I say all that as a Christian who does not condone any sexual activity outside of a male/female marriage.
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