Topic: War On Terror
Response to Disgruntled Reader on "Malalai Joya" Article The pain and psychological shock trauma of 9/11 and the War on Terror continues. When will the shock wear off?by Jake Towne, the Champion of the Constitution
(libertarian)
Monday, August 11, 2008
"Jake ...... I stopped reading the article when it stated that America invaded Afghanistan. How dare they say that! I lost two at the Pentagon and my husband lost his boss at WTC. Afghanistan is protecting the same people that caused 9/11. Hand Bin Laden over to America and everyone will find out how fast we will abandon the place! Afghanistan has been a horrid place to live long before we started looking for Bin Laden there. How come all of a sudden it is all America's fault? Yes, I am the voice of freedom for those who still believe in the United States of America!"
Thanks so much for writing back! I am sorry you were unable to finish the article I wrote. You are not the first to do this, but your reasoning is very similar to many others’ reactions, which included myself not even a year ago.
Here is my reply, but if you want to make sense of it, you will need to read it and a few sources with an open mind. If not, no problem, I have no intention of trying to change your mind, just to defend my way of thinking. I have no control whether you even decide to read this or not, and also no control over what your mind thinks. Nor do I ever want this type of control - I find the very idea appalling. That said, if what I have to say is that far off-base, I hope you have decided to read on and then reply and correct me. We can talk about this, I hope.
I also feel the pain of the 2,978 people who died on 9/11. However, the pain of the 5,154 Americans who have died in Afghanistan and Iraq stings me even more. Well over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died, and if you believe the 2006 Lancet study as I do, the actual number is well over 1,000,000. I feel their pain too, as well as the displaced, starving, and unhappy. And if you know how many Afghans have died so far, please tell me. No one is counting as their bodies hit the dirt.
In their name, not mine, I implore you to read on.
Reader: I stopped reading the article when it stated that America invaded Afghanistan. How dare they say that!
My reply: Objectively speaking, how else could you phrase what we did? We definitely invaded Afghanistan, and it was definitely done without a formal declaration of war from Congress against the Taliban. Now, of course, we all believed it was done in order to capture Bin Laden, but what is the actual truth? Here is my version in brief:
On October 7, 2001 American and British air forces began the bombardment of Afghanistan. Air strikes directed by small British and American special forces units working alongside the Northern Alliance were the key reason the Taliban was defeated very quickly.
On November 13, Kabul was captured by Northern Alliance ground forces.
On November 26, Kunduz was captured by Northern Alliance ground forces.
In December the last major city of Kandahar was captured, also by Northern Alliance ground forces.
During December 12-17 the infamous Battle of Tora Bora was fought in the mountains on the Afghanistan border. It was widely believed that this is when OBL escaped to Pakistan. However, what you probably do not realize is that President Bush, DESPITE all rhetoric to the contrary, did NOT allow American land forces to pursue him on land. Yes, in other words, we launched 150,000 troops over the Iraqi border in 2003 to get Saddam, who had absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11, but we had only aerial bombardment and a few scant special ops/CIA forces in play in Afghanistan to get Bin Laden, who we claimed was the cause of 9/11. Bush was content to let the Northern Alliance, a group of tribal warlords, fight a proxy war on our behalf.
It wasn’t until March 2002 that a major ground campaign was launched by the US to attack Al-Qaeda, and this can be seen by just looking at the casualty list and its details – most of those who died up to March were air force, CIA, or special ops related deaths.
Don’t believe me? That’s OK, I am not offended. Try reading the ex-CIA agent Berntson’s Jawbreaker, or at very least the short book review I wrote on Vincent Bugliosi’s The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder if you want.
Reader: How come all of a sudden [the wars and 9/11] are all America's fault?
My reply: Responsibility for 9/11 and the War on Terror are the fault of the American government, not the American people, who were duped while in a state of shock. And up until 2007, I include myself in the ‘duped’ category. America got hit with a massive dose of what is termed Blowback, or "what goes around comes around" or "you reap what you sow." Our foreign policies for DECADES (not "all of a sudden") finally made one enemy too many, and the end result was 9/11. Again, 9/11 was caused by our government’s foreign policy, not by the American people, who were guilty only of having been duped. Try reading Chalmers Johnson's Blowback.
In no way would I ever possibly sanction the deaths that happened on 9/11, but you have to ask why we were attacked. I firmly believe it was not because they were envious of our freedoms and our wealth, but because they were scared and backed into a corner by our foreign policy which has been attacking or oppressing them for decades. Or they are just using the perceived, possibly religious hatred of us just as a way to gather support for their end purpose of promoting an oppressive Islamic theocracy. One example was our troops supporting the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia. Guess how many 9/11 hijackers were Saudi? 15 of those 19 m----f-----s were Saudi. We forgot to attack them too. Here are my thoughts in my very first article from February.
Contrary to popular belief, we are far more prone to more and more terrorist attacks in the future due to the simple fact that our foreign policy, namely the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (soon to be Iran and Pakistan wars too?) are creating more and more enemies, usually via collateral damage. This is the same cycle of hate that has coexisted with mankind for most of our history, as I ramble about here. A prime example of this in the modern world is Israel and the Palestinians, but you could easily look at Africa’s Hutu and Tutsi, the Turks and Kurds, Serbs and Croats, on and on. In relation to the ‘Islamofascists’ please try Michael Scheuer’s booksImperial Hubris or Marching Towards Hell,
Second, even if you don’t agree with my foreign policy root cause, read The 9/11 Commission Report, for a hundred pages you have to put up with "The CIA wanted to kill OBL, they knew where he was, and asked President Clinton/others for the green light, but they said No." The government most of the time chose inaction, and the few actions they did take were quite ineffective. Another chapter refers to the time directly before the attack was called "The System was Blinking Red" meaning our intelligence forces really thought an attack would occur, but again, nothing effective was done. The government under Bush literally did nothing on the terrorist issue, ironically until a meeting on September 10, 2001. And who got fired for this massive failure of our intelligence forces? That a team of nineteen foreigners, plenty of whom could not even speak English, were able to relocate to the US, learn to fly planes, and then carry out a carefully timed attack? Bush fired no major official.
Reader: Hand Bin Laden over to America and everyone will find out how fast we will abandon the place! Afghanistan has been a horrid place to live long before we started looking for Bin Laden there.
My reply: True, I would not want to live there right now. But let’s take a brief look at history, shall we? In the 1980s, we assisted the mujahideen of Afghanistan to fight a proxy war against the Russians by arming them with Stinger surface-to-air missiles, etc. It is reported that the Russians were not playing nice, slaughtering villagers, torturing, etc., the usual war-stuff. In the 1980s one out of every two refugees in the world was Afghan. [Take a closer look at my sources from Carter’s (and now Obama’s!) foreign policy advisor Brzezinski here, in an article where I warned of an upcoming war with Iran way back in March.]
As you probably know, the CIA trained up Bin Laden and his ilk to fight the Russians for us, and win they did! The Soviet empire’s wartime expenditures helped "bleed them dry" and speed the bankruptcy and collapse of the USSR. However, Afghanistan after the Soviets left in 1988 was completely devastated by the war. After they beat the Soviets for us, the mujahideen morphed into the warlords (ahem, Northern Alliance!!) took over, and eventually their brutal rule was ended in a civil war by the Taliban, the ills of whose puritanical Islamic theocracy you are probably already aware.
Here I want to note that even though the USA stoked the coals of war, when the war ended, we vanished. Afghanistan's population had over 50% younger than the age of 14 (it's estimated at about 45% right now) and all the children were raised under constant war, most minus their parents or maimed, so it should be no surprise that they grew up into warriors. The USA had a chance to step in, to "make a difference," to stand for the "greater good," but we just left, like a little boy chasing a new set of skirts. We had more work for the "greater good" to do in Yugoslavia, Somalia, etc. and a Persian Gulf War to win for Kuwait in 1991.
Now, in 1996, Bin Laden fled from Sudan and was granted sanctuary in Afghanistan by whom? None other than the Northern Alliance. (sources Wiki and The 9/11 Commission Report) After the warlords were defeated by the Taliban in a bloody civil war, the Taliban permitted Bin Laden to remain. Our intelligence forces were unable to secure the political will of the Clinton administration to kill or capture him in the 1990s, even after the first WTC attack, even after he blew up the USS Cole, even after he blew up a couple American embassies. Part of the problem was we kept trying to use our allies in the Northern Alliance to act as our proxies, and it was almost like Osama and the Northern Alliance were old friends...
Fast forward to September 20, 2001. The United States outlined to the Taliban an ultimatum necessary to avoid invasion. Chief among them was to surrender OBL. The Taliban refused, stating that there was no evidence that OBL was involved in 9/11. Then, the Taliban responded more frantically as America moved aircraft carriers into position to bomb Afghanistan from the Bronze Age back into the Stone Age.
On October 4th, the Taliban responded they would extradite OBL to Pakistan for trial. No dice. No d-d-diplomacy for you, said the USA.
On October 7th, the Taliban responded they would put OBL on trial in Afghanistan. No dice, cackled the USA madly, and proceeded to start bombing poor Afghanistan back to when the wheel was invented.
On October 14th, the Taliban replied they would extradite OBL to any neutral country for trial, but only if evidence was presented that OBL caused 9/11. The USA, our country, our "sweet land of liberty," said we are going to bomb and bomb and bomb until you forget how to start a fire.
So, what was the kicker? Although I myself think that OBL probably did it, there is NO proof whatsoever that we could prove this in a court of law. Not even after the Patriot Act enabled federal forces to grab any records, tapped our phones and internet, etc. No solid proof. None. Here is OBL’s current FBI poster. Not a mention of 9/11. Here is an article summing up the lack of proof.
So do me a favor please. Prove to me that OBL was behind 9/11. Just show me the proof, I’m still brainwashed enough to believe it if it’s convincing enough.
However, Reader, isn’t it possible that history could repeat itself? That America, just like the Soviet empire, could be "bled" and bankrupted? Don’t you think that, just as he did against the Russians, winning success against the world’s superpower by expending their efforts in twin deserts is Obama’s – I mean Osama’s - only hope?
It is worth noting here that most of the private emails sent to me are overwhelmingly negative towards the writing that I do. Some feedback I would even just describe not as feedback really, but simply hate mail. I have lost a few acquaintances already – I had assumed they were friends previously – almost all do not even bother to debate back, they just send some angry words, I respond like the above, and then that's the last I hear from them. I hope I don’t lose another friend by writing this, I suppose this is an acid test of a sort. Again, like Voltaire, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. Unfortunately, it appears this is often not a two-way street. Perhaps my tone of dissent is too disrespectful. Oh well.
A Salute to Malalai Joya - Afghanistan's Tom Paine Published: August 8, 2008 Malalai Joya, a brave lady and banned legislator from Afghanistan, fights for justice, human rights, and democracy. She battles both the Warlords in power, the Taliban... and the American Government, which is probably why you have never heard of her.
The Money Matrix - Prelude (PART 1/15) Published: August 1, 2008 Prelude and Source List to a Series on Global Monetary Policy of Control and Explaining Big Government's Finances
Police State Invades Mayor's Home & Kills His Dogs (UPDATED) Published: August 1, 2008 "It was inconceivable to me that my government would be coming through my door." - the Mayor of Berwyn Heights, Maryland, or a recent police raid on his residence
Published: May 17, 2008 Breaking News! Read and Listen here at the dod.mil link. Give a Thumbs up if you think Donald Rumsfeld is "waaaay off the record," I mean way out of line!
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
As always, unlike the NFL, the author grants full permission to allow any accounts of, rebroadcasts, retransmissions, repostings in part or full of this article to your blog or anywhere else in order to promote the Restoration of our Republic.
Veritas numquam perit. Veritas odit moras. Veritas vincit. Truth never perishes. Truth hates delay. Truth conquers.
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Though I certainly don't need to, I'd like to add the following excerpt from a review of John B. Quigley's The Ruses for War: American Interventionism Since World War II, by David Gordon:
Everyone knows the manner in which Bush lied us into the Iraq war, but the invasion of Afghanistan has gotten a much better press. Was it not necessary to overthrow the Taliban government, which provided sanctuary to Osama bin Laden? Quigley shows that this view rests on dubious assumptions.
First, when the United States demanded of Afghanistan the surrender of bin Laden, it ignored customary procedures of international law. "The normal international procedure for the surrender of a suspect is extradition. The government that seeks surrender provides information to show probable cause that the person sought committed a crime. A court in the country from which extradition is requested hears the evidence in open court and decides whether there is sufficient evidence that the accused person committed the crime in question. In requesting evidence, the Taliban was thus adhering to accepted international standards" (pp. 360–61).
Instead, the United States demanded that the Taliban surrender bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders without the customary procedures; when the Taliban did not comply invasion followed. The Taliban professed willingness to negotiate over the conditions for surrender of the suspects, but the US would not discuss its ultimatum. If the Taliban was not sincere, this could soon have been determined, but the US would not wait.
Posted By: Jake, the champion of the constitution
Date: 2008-08-14 00:12:19
Response from the reader who I responded to in this article: "There are at least 5 billion of us in this planet. Any individual death is meaningless except to family and friends. I think, then, this leads us to discussing principles instead of events. It is against my principle to allow any organization to kill 6000 Americans without severe retribution. History teaches us that severe retribution requires the killing of many innocent. This is how we stop terrorism. This is the meaning of Klauswitz concept of total war. Interestingly, enough, since we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, no one has taken out a "Burger King" in the continental United States."
My reply: There are over 6.6 billion of us on the planet, but I disagree with you that any individual death is meaningless except to family and friends. If you are walking in the wrong neighborhood in LA and see someone get shot in front of you, that's not meaningless. If a bomb goes off in the local market and kills a random someone, that's not meaningless. Even if the WTC was brought down at 4 AM in the morning with only 1 security guard inside, his death would not have been meaningless.
"History teaches us that severe retribution requires the killing of many innocents. This is how we stop terrorism. This is the meaning of Klauswitz concept of total war."
What?!? To win we are REQUIRED to kill many innocents? We will not be able to agree, as we live on different planets, but actually I see your point, you think total war is required to win. Total war in Gaza/Palesine? This is pretty much what the Israelis have been doing for the past 40 years - it hasn't worked. Total war in the USA? Go down to Savannah, Georgia, climb up on a bartop on Friday night and tell them all how great General Sherman's March to the Sea was for the South - was there peace? yes, I suppose, but some would call it oppression. Total war in Japan? Sure we dropped a couple A-bombs, but did we have to, and was it worth it? Vietnam - oops, when we tried to kill all the villagers with our body counts, it didn't work. Cambodia - oops, when Khmer Rouge made everyone into a farmer and constantly tortured them, it didnt work. Abu Ghraib, Bagram, Guantanamo - Not working for us. Hutus and Tutsis with their machetes - what was their problem, not "total war-ish" enough? Why wasnt Hitler and Tojo able to win, they were pretty big on total war?
There is a major difference between stopping terrorism with smart tactics which will often not require physical force and running for your M-16 every time you think you hear a terrorist fart. Have you ever studied how the Brits did it in Malaysia? I do concede your point that if you manage to exterminate the other side you will win - boy how far Western civilization has come!!! The Greeks and the Romans would be so proud of us.
"Interestingly, enough, since we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, no one has taken out a "Burger King" in the continental United States."
I am missing the significance of Burger King. If you want to be scared, be more so of the Unabomber or those British citizens who spoke english, enjoyed all the 'freedoms' of living in the UK, and still decided to blow up some subway trains. If you were Osama, and have managed to survive for 7 years from the most powerful military force on earth that is secreting billions every week to hunt you down, what is the bonus for a strike? A doubling of the bombs for a few weeks? No, its enough just to survive and grow your organization. And wear down the US through attrition in these expensive wars. Our troops are far closer and easier to attack anyways.
Somehow I think that whoever plotted 9/11 wanted to, they could take out a Burger King if they so wished. Or maybe we have to wait for the sons and daughter of those we killed to grow up.
However, overall your response is WAY off topic, do you have any logical rebuttals to what I wrote in the article? Can you at least logically prove that OBL probably caused 9/11?
PS Oh, and when you do the math on 9/11 and American deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan, its over 8,132 dead right now, not 6000. But who's counting?
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