Topic: Bob Barr
In Pragmatic Support of Bob Barr Bob Barr's role in this election is to be just a "born-again libertarian" spokesperson and a catalyst against McCain in order to help the Ron Paul Revolution's attempt to restructure the GOP. THAT'S IT! NOTHING MORE!by Orwell1984
(Libertarian)
Saturday, June 7, 2008
I have read a lot articles and blogs on www.nolanchart.com, www.dailypaul.com, and other places condemning Bob Barr. Bob Barr is getting wrath from libertarians for his past support for the Patriot Act, Iraq War, Drug War, and other non-libertarian positions. Even though he has stated repeatedly that those were mistakes and he regrets his past is still irrelevant to a lot of people. I understand the complaints from libertarian purists. However, I believe that they are failing to see the bigger picture. If Bob Barr had a realistic shot at winning the presidency, then I probably wouldn't vote for him. But I believe, as I think most people do, that he will not win the presidency. He will get anywhere from 7-20% of the vote depending on whether he is included in debates and how events unfold. Even if he gets only 7% of the vote; that should be enough to make John McCain loose the election. Whether people like it or not, the winner of the 2008 Presidential Election will be either John McCain or Barack Obama. If John McCain wins the presidency, then the Ron Paul Revolution's attempt at rebuilding the GOP will become more difficult. If Barack Obama wins the election, then the Ron Paul Revolution's mission will become relatively easier. For us libertarians, Bob Barr is only a pragmatic vote to take the election away from McCain in order to help the Ron Paul Revolution rebuild the GOP from within. It's really that simple! All these hate articles on the www.nolanchart.com about Bob Barr and his evil past and flip-flopping politics is really irrelevant because he is not going to win anyway. There is nobody else for a libertarian to vote for besides Chuck Baldwin. And Chuck Baldwin will not be on the ballot in a lot of states. They could also write-in "Ron Paul" but a lot of states don't count those votes either. So Bob Barr is the only choice a libertarian has. The fact that he cannot win should be a good enough reason to not be too concerned about his non-libertarian political past. They should only be concerned about what his message is presently, which is lite-libertarianism that non-libertarians will be more receptive to until they get used to and understand libertarian philosophy.
Blogger Marc Gallagher at Liberty Maven words this differently:
To me, supporting Baldwin does little to help spread the reach of the liberty message. I will ignore the fact that he is not likely to receive the media attention Barr will. Supporting him is philosophically sound, because Baldwin is a bit more like Ron Paul than Barr. He preaches against the NWO and the North American Union, and abolishing the Fed. All good by Ron Paul standards; however, Baldwin’s reach will be to those Paul supporters that lean more on the radical rather than practical side of the spectrum. I believe his reach is limited to a subset of Ron Paul’s current support base plus Constitution Party loyalists.
Because of this split, Barr’s reach to Ron Paul supporters is also limited. The difference is that Barr’s admittedly "watered" down version of Ron Paul’s message is more appealing to the masses. Therefore, it is up to him to bring in new converts. Once in the fold they can be directed incrementally towards the more radical views of the purist Ron Paul supporter.
The problem for Barr though is that the most radical Ron Paul supporters are the most politically active. It is unlikely we’ll see the million dollar money bombs, big rallies, marches, sign waves, and a blimp for Bob Barr. The rallies, marches, and sign waves Barr can do without, but raising a good amount of money is not optional. I will certainly donate. I hope those reading this will as well. His campaign needs it.
In business negotiations it is always good to start with common ground and then explore differences. The political world is no different. Bob Barr can be a bridge for disaffected conservatives towards the Ron Paul enlightenment. I took the incremental path towards liberty via Paul Tsongas, Ayn Rand, Harry Browne, and Ron Paul. Barr is offering libertarian leaning conservatives a starting point down a similar path.
Ron Paul offered everyone the red pill for instantaneous realization. Some took it. Many refused. Bob Barr is now offering a purple slow release pill towards that same enlightenment. I hope many who refused the red will swallow the purple. Only time will tell.
Bob Barr's role in this election is to be just a "born-again libertarian" spokesperson and a catalyst against McCain in order to help the Ron Paul Revolution's attempt to restructure the GOP. THAT'S IT! NOTHING MORE! Is there a problem with that strategy? Is there a credible candidate in the 2008 Presidential race who can do that better than Bob Barr? I don't think so....
This is a very well-written letter/petition to the Republican Party giving excellent reasons why McCain cannot beat Obama in the general election. http://www.lettertogop.com/
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Bob Barr is getting wrath from libertarians for his past support for the Patriot Act, Iraq War, Drug War, and other non-libertarian positions. Even though he has stated repeatedly that those were mistakes and he regrets his past is still irrelevant to a lot of people.
You greatly gloss the concerns many libertarians have about Bob Barr. It isn't just Barr's past support for the PATRIOT Act, Iraq War, and War on Drugs, it's about his honesty when renouncing his past, his refusal to accept responsibilities for his deeds as a Congressman that aided liberty's theft, and his support, both financial and vocal for anti-libertarian Republican politicians. Just a few examples:
The War on Drugs
Barr has changed his mind about medicinal marijuana, but he is still a rabid drug warrior at heart regarding Columbia, and arrogantly refuses to admit that it is the War on Drugs which caused much of the problems in that country.
Bob Barr, "Justice gone bananas", March 29, 2007
Bob Barr, "Multinationals Battling Violence Face Dilemma", October 23, 2007
Bob Barr's Support for anti-libertarian Republican Politicians
Barr's support for Rep Broun (R-GA) - "..in just his first six months in office, carved out a solid conservative voting record that ought to make all Georgia Republicans cheer." Paul C. Broun proposed H. R. 5821: Military Honor and Decency Act, which is an attempt "To amend title 10, United States Code, to close loopholes in the prohibition on the sale or rental of sexually explicit material on military installations." Specifically, it seeks to ban even a side view of a woman's breast from any item sold in military PX's. What a waste of congressional resources.
Barr defended Senator Larry Craig's Peeping in the Public Potty, and called the arrest police overreach, without mentioning that the Twin Cities Airport had received numerous complaints from indivduals who had been propositioned sexually in their bathrooms, and the specific bathroom used by Craig when he was arrested was listed as a good pick-up place on a gay website. Barr also does not mention that along with Craig Playing footsie, and gesturing suggestively underneath a bathroom stall wall, he had first stared for over a minute through the cracks in the door of an occupied stall, even though several other stalls were available for use. I'm all for freedom to choose when it comes to personal choices about sexuality, but only if this freedom does not impair others' liberties in the process. I would feel that my personal space had been seriously violated, if someone were to engage in this behavior, while I was using a public restroom facility. On a bad day, I would probably have some nasty words for the Peeper, and if he did not back down, it could easily lead to an altercation. So there is a valid concern about the public peace for inderdicting this sort of behavior in public bathrooms too. Craig wasn't coerced into a plea bargain. Give me a break, Barr.
Barr has contributed into Saxby Chambliss' campaign, and written glowing words of support for him. Chambliss is not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination. He has not stood in defense of habeas corpus, and has backed everyone of Bush's surveillance initiatives. He is an adamant defender of the Iraq war's propriety.
Anti-Immigration Policies
On his website, Barr states that "Immigration belongs at the federal level". Not according to Original Intent Constitutional Theory, or the Nation's Founders. Immigration was originally considered to be a State's prerogative, and it was the anti-immigrant Alien and Sedition Bills that were a primary cause of the Federalist party's extinction. The Alien and Sedition bills also were the cause of two early defenses by individual states of their Constitutional Rights:
Barr has vocally called for justice to served in the case of Troy Davis in Georgia. This is a laudable act, but at the same time it is a weasel, because justice has been denied Davis based upon habeas corpus reform that Barr championed as a congressman in the 90's, and was written the 1996 Terror prevention legislation. At that time Barr spoke on the House floor about the need for Habeas Reform that included ironclad deadline for filings of appeals, which is exactly the trap that Davis has fallen into, even though it looks as if he was unjustly convicted. Bob Barr, "Troy Davis’ ‘day in court’ brought travesty of justice", August 8, 2007
These are just a few from the multitude of exceptions I take to Barr's libertarian posturing.
A Knight, those are great points. However, my question still remains. Is there a credible candidate in the 2008 Presidential race who can help the Ron Paul Revolution reform the GOP better than Bob Barr? Is there a candidate who has at least somewhat of a libertarian message who can take votes from McCain?
Please don't say Chuck Baldwin! He will not be on the ballot in a lot states, thus making him irrelevant. You could also write in "Ron Paul", but most states don't count those votes either. We might as well bang our heads against the wall!
I do not "deify" Ron Paul either. I deify his message of individual liberty, free markets, and small government. And identifying Ron Paul as a libertarian is truthful, to be more exact, he is a Paleolibertarian ([link edited for length]).
"Here are two facts:
Politicians Lied; Politicians Lie; and Politicians Will Lie
Ron Paul is a long-term Republican Politician from South Texas
I'll leave it up to the readers to derive a logical corrolary from these two facts."
Your quote here tells me nothing except that your apolitical and pessimistic. Of course lots of politicians lie. I'm not disputing that. But I do have a problem with the fact that you seem to have no solutions. You still can't answer the question, "Who is the best Presidential candidate in 2008?". You seem to be just like the rest of the apathetic American masses who complain about the status quo but offer no solutions. If you have no solutions, then I have to question your motivation for posting blogs and comments on www.nolanchart.com.
Are you really suggesting that it is a "libertarian" notion that police should be patroling public bathrooms just to make sure there is not any "queer" stuff going on? Give me a break.
Makes me glad I'm not a "real" Libertarian. I believe in less police, not more.
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