Topic: War
US and Them Why some people think it's US and them...by Freedom Writer
(Libertarian)
Sunday, May 18, 2008
Evangelical Christians in the United States almost unabashedly support our country's current policy of preemptive war. Why?
A conversation I recently had with a dear friend might explain. This person is a good Christian, a strong believer, a non-gun owner, has never been in the military, etc. Yet, when it comes to the war in Iraq...
Well, here's what my friend said:
People just don't get it. We have to fight them over there. If we don't fight them over there, we'll be fighting them here. They hate US and want to kill US. You know, those Islamic extremists. It's "US" vs. "them". People who oppose the war in Iraq, well, they just don't get it.
Anyway, that pretty much was the gist of it. What could I say in response to my friend"s comments? Especially when I was in his house at a small church group fellowship? And especially when almost everyone there were neocon Republicans and some know that I am a Ron Paul supporter. My wife gave me that all-knowing look and I remained quiet. I will have to engage in a conversation on this topic with my friend at another time.
However, here is what I could have said, had I replied:
What is it that "they" don't get? And who are "they"? Are "they" the Americans that don't agree with starting wars that are undeclared and unconstitutional? Are "they" the Americans that don't want our young service men and women to be sent overseas to fight in these unjust wars?
First of all, it is one thing to fight in a "just" war. You can at least "justify" a "just" war. Second, it is quite another thing to engage in an unjust war that results in the death of many people in another country. Third, Iraq never attacked US (at least not to my knowledge). Iraq may be a threat to Israel and Kuwait, and maybe even Saudi Arabia, but their people were not on their way here to attack US.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but do you really believe that we are fighting in Iraq because we don't want them fighting "US" here?
Is it the evangelical Christian thing to go to these foreign countries and kill people over there? For what reason? To find Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) that don't exist? Or is it to control the oil? If it is for the oil, may God be the judge... Our American blood is priceless compared to all of the worthless barrels of oil that Gee "I" Duped Ya and his cronies are selling (for higher and higher profits, especially since time is running out...). The blood that has been spilled over there will never be replaced by the oil that Duped Ya and his cronies are getting.
And here's what I think about this type of Christianity. What would Jesus say? Would Jesus say "Good job, you better hurry and kill those extremist Muslims over there before they get you"? Or would Jesus say "Love your enemies" and "Turn the other cheek"? I don't know what brand of Christianity you're following, but preemptive war is not something that I think the New Testament would endorse.
By the way, I was in the service for 6 years and I support our troops. I was one of the troops at one time. Why wouldn't I support the troops? I just don't support a ridiculous foreign policy of sending soldiers all over the world to fight in wars for questionable motives. I cannot support a foreign policy that sends soldiers into harms way so that rich oil companies can make more and more money.
As Ron Paul said, in so many words, why are we policing the world? Why are we nation building? It's insane...
Do you really think that by invading and occupying these countries that it will stop "them" from coming here? It will only make "them" more committed to hating "US". They now have a more reasons to hate "US".
And here are some of those reasons:
In addition to all of the bloodshed in Iraq and the battle for who controls the oil, John McCain made his 100 years of occupation remark. John McCain then dropped a bomb by singing bomb, bomb Iran... John McCain also made his burkas remark. He has shown his ignorance and willingness to follow in the same footsteps of his predecessors in these ridiculous policies that will surely send more and more American soldiers to certain death. John McCain is definitely not an evangelical Christian, but he is playing the evangelicals like a fiddle...
And all McCain has to do is get the nomination and then add the Huckster to the ticket. With that combo almost all of the evangelicals will go into more of these types of wars oversea just like lemmings go over the edge of a cliff. These wars will lead to more bloodshed and sacrifices by "good" Christians that are ready to die to protect Israel and fight Islamic terrorists in their own countries...
So why should the US fight? Is it because we must stop "them"? Is it because "they" are a threat to Israel? Or is it because of imaginary Weapons of Mass Destruction and nuclear weapons that don't exist? Or is it as my friend suggests? That we are fighting over there to keep "them" from fighting "US" over here?
So, is that a good reason for "US" to go over there and kill "them"? Is it the Christian thing to do... ? Is that the American thing to do?
It is ludicrous to say that it is the American thing to do... It is not even close to the Christian thing to do! The evangelical Christians in America are being huckstered and someday may be suckstered into the next phony war (Iran). Pre-emptive war is not the solution. Occupying Middle Eastern countries is not the answer. Unless America changes it's Middle East policies and brings the troops home, don't be surprised if "they" will be here again. And "they" may be here sooner than you suspect. In fact, Bush recently predicted in an interview that if a Democrat gets elected as our next President that we will be attacked again. (Is there something that he already knows...?)
And when Bush makes predictions like this, I, for one, do not take them lightly. Sometimes Bush is wrong, like the time when he said that he had "people" tell him about WMD. And he started a war to find these WMD, only to find out that they weren't there.
But, this time, I think Duped Ya may be right. It is a scary thought to think that if a Democrat wins we will be attacked again. And this is in light of the fact that most people suspect that McCain doesn't have much of a chance to win. In addtion, it looks like the Democrats are in good stead for the next election. So, on that note, is Bush's prediction a forewarning of 9-11 part 2?
If that is so, then all the Iraq and Iran wars won't be enough to keep "them" over there. Won't they eventually find a way to come here and get "US"?
You know, Bush and his cronies have been telling US for many years now that we must continue to be patriotic and support the troops. Bush says that we must support the President when he engages in these pre-emptive wars. What Bush and friends don't tell US is how profitable it is for Halliburton, Cheney, Bush, and the King of Saudi Arabia when the US engages in these unjust wars...
And you know, after all, I guess my friend is right.
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2008 Freedom Writer, all rights reserved.
Published: Sunday, May 18, 2008
Last modified: Sunday, May 18, 2008
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Ask them how fighting them over there prevents them from coming here when Bush has more-or-less allowed ANYONE to cross our borders and stay here indefinitely. He WANTS another attack so he can pass "Patriot Act II."
Posted By: Jake, the champion of the constitution
Date: 2008-05-17 23:28:09
Thumbs up, check out my link to Rumsfeld to listen for yourself how the bigwigs at the top talk, and that he wanted "Another Attack" just like Alex wrote about above. I hope to check out your next article about you stood up and replied.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article3806.html
"In the beginning of change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for it then costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
Tell anyone who wonders why "they" hate "us" to Google "Operation Ajax"... just for a start. The USA, thanks to the CIA, literally killed democracy in the Mid east... every Iranian wakes up under the control of mullah despots thanks to the land of the free. Our support of Israels atrocities against the Palestinians doesn't help either.
Then Google "Operation Merlin", and ask...who SOLD Iran a blueprint of how to build a nuke?... the USA!! of course.
Lincoln said; "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." Well W has discovered that you can fool most of the people most of the time and that seems to be enough.
But seriously Freedom Writer, you're asking the right question; why are people so easily fooled by the Bush propaganda machine? It isn't even good propaganda. W has publicly admitted that Iraq was not involved in 911 and that they had no weapons of mass destruction. [link edited for length] And the 911 report shows that none of the hijackers were even from Iraq. Yet we are hell bent on attacking Iraq. It defies all logic.
You could tell your friend that if such a policy had actually been effective then we would have seen the end of war long ago. The fact is that we have been engaged in Iraq far longer than most people realize. In one way or another, our government has been intervening in Iraq for the last 87 years.
In the last 110 years our government has intervened in over 200 countries. Such a policy has only provided a false sense of security and enriched the coffers of those involved in the military industry and ancillary contractors, usually those highly favored by government patrons.
The primary beneficiaries of such a policy are definitely not the common people of this country, they, after all, do provide those who heartily advocate such policies with the cannon fodder needed to enact such policies.
Christians, particularly in our day and age, seem to forget the doctrine of "just war", or war that is based solely upon self-defense. Our invasion of Iraq relates much closer to the types of aggression that America use to condemn and fight against.
I would ask how our government's justification of the invasion of Iraq was any different that the justification that Hitler gave when he invaded Poland, or the Sudetenland, the premise was, after all, very similar. Hitler dreamed up a justification to enter those countries just as Bush dreamed up the justification to enter Iraq. Hitler's criminal hype against potential threats from Poland were basically no different than those of Bush and the potential threats posed by Iraq. Hitler said that the Germans in Poland were being persecuted and terrorized, and that there was a danger of communist "terrorists" threatening the "Fatherland". After all, the German people were already aware that "terrorists" had attacked the Reichstag, and Hitler's progaganda machine made it clear to the people that they were in danger from such "terrorist" threats.
How did Hitler gain such support from the German people? It was the use of raw fear and that fear was used by Hitler to persuade the German people to relinquish their freedom, their rights for "security". Of course, there were many christians who supported Hitler too!
All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those toward whom it is directed will understand it... Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise." --Hitler "Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death."--Hitler
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2008 Freedom Writer, all rights reserved.