Topic: Presidential Campaign 2008
The Draft is Coming Back If the presidential candidate of either the Rbpuclican of Democratic Party is elected in November, the military draft will again be a fact of life for American youth.by rtbohan
(Libertarian)
Monday, April 28, 2008
One fact which the young people of the United States have to face is that the next President, whether Republican or Democrat, is already committed to bringing back the military draft. And the Congress will back him.
John Kerry more or less announced the plan when he told a class, "If you don't study hard, you will end up in Iraq." Now there is no reason to believe that if they do not study they will end up in Iraq, unless they join the National Guard. But what Kerry told them was true at the time he was a student, and the only meaning of his statement was that the plans are being laid to bring back the draft in the same form as it existed during the Viet Nam war. Kerry later retreated farther from his statement, by explaining that he meant they would elect a government which would get the country in a war like the Iraq war. But it was too late.
The press more or less teased Kerry, who set a standard for making uninterpretable states during his campaign for President four years ago, but never really pressed him on the quesion of bringing back the draft. And the three leading candidates have all, in effect, indicated that it is coming back. Obama and Clinton have both been talking about a program of two years of national service for youhg people at eighteen. They have talked about civilian service programs, but have indicated that military is one area in which the young people could do their Naional Service. And we know from the experience of World War II that it is quite simple to abolish the cirilian programs of national service and simply move the people in thos programs into the military.
Jphn McCain throughout the Iraq war has criticized the Bush policy largely on the ground that not enough troops are being committed to the operation. At the same time, he has indicated that he is committed to keeping the contingents in Europe at full strength, which means that he is not planning on finding the large forces by withdrawing troops from peaceful areas. The result has been the the regular forces sent to Iraq and Afghanistan are having their terms of service extended and being sent back in to the areas early. The same thing is happening with the National Guard, which have been taken from the states to support the war effort.
A case can, in fact, be made for the draft. If the U.S. is attacked, the defensive response must be quick. Citizens must fill the ranks of the army and they must be trained. A draft for training purposes might be justified. But since 1945 the United States has not declared a war. A draft for unnecessary and unlawful armed attacks on other countries should not be permitted. During the Viet Nam war, a major facto in the anti-war movement was the protest, not against the war itself, but against the draft. As a selective service system, certain broad classes of citizens, such as students, were excluded from the draft rolls. Others were able to avoid the draft as President Clinton did, by signing up for ROTC and then resigning but asking the local head of the ROTC not to report his resignation. Others follwed the examle of George W. Bush and joined the National Guard, but then stopped attending. Some who did not qualify for legitimate or illegitimate execmptions voted with their feet by leaving in the country.
President Eisenhower almost fifty years ago warned of the danger to the Republic of the military industrial complex. In Iraq and Afghanistran we are seeing the results of ignoring that warning. Two of the three likely candidates for the Democratic and Republican nominations have expressed their desire for further military adventures. The third talks of opposition to these plans, but supports the mechanism of the draft which makes them more likely.
The economy is now the focus of all the campaigns. But the voters, the activists and the press shold be paying more attention to the planned return of the draft.
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2008 rtbohan, all rights reserved.
Published: Monday, April 28, 2008
Last modified: Monday, April 28, 2008
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Pretty solid case, although I'm not so sure the draft would come from Democrats unless they truly planned to go into Africa and police all these warring tribes. I think something like mandatory service would still be on the table.
On your bit about Kerry, that is an interesting interpretation, but he made this remark after the election, so what he means is open to debate. I'm predisposed to believe that he meant "if you don't do well in school, the only way you'll get by is after joining the military." But that could be vague and intended as well. After all, Kerry wasn't the most inspiring windbag.
Old news. Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY) has been talking about a draft for this war for five years. However, as long as such things as stop-loss and getting willing volunteers from the National Guard, a draft has been avoided. A draft will shut down this war really fast. That's why the Democrats may push for it. It's twisted, but it could happen.
Posted By: Lloyd Kempson (atheist and Veteran)
Date: 2008-04-28 12:53:53
Democrat Charles Rangel is the one who wants the draft.
The Republicans want the military pay scale to be so much that it is a viable option for employment. People who join no longer have the excuse that they don't want to die, therefore you can label them whatever you like.
The Democrats will always try to discredit those who join the military by saying that there wern't any jobs in Podunkville, Blue State.
As long as the pay is good and the harm is small (like it is now, compared to Vietnam, WW2, and WW1) Young men will join. The Army hurts thier recruiting with thier stupid policies that bar all kinds of potential recruits from joining in. There are a lot of restrictions that are keeping people out of the military today that could have served durring the Vietnam War. I say continue to let the military pay as high as it does. Continue to deploy them too. As far as I am concerned, they should not stay at home and become extentions of the wealfare state. (although the National Gaurd cry babies seem to think that is what they are for)
Italy does not have a draft, and they are in Iraq too.
I agree that wanting a draft so that intervention is stopped is a twisted plan, although it would work. An all volunteer force is optimal for training and fighting wars. The draft should only be used when absolutely necessary. Think of it this way, you wouldn't want a conscription police force would you?
At the same time, a conscripted service in peace time would prevent almost all intervention. The world would be in chaos (not that the RP supporters care, we all know this) but America would have to be attacked before it ever did anything.
You will never see a serious protest with a sign that reads:
Stop the death of thousands of Americans, Ban Cars!!!
Posted By: patrick henry
Date: 2008-04-29 15:10:08
lloyd,
Veteran of what? You talk of high pay, you must not have been in the Army or had been an enlisted guy. The National Guard crybabies? It is against their charter to leave the confines of the US hence the name NATIONAL GUARD and not international guard.
You can currently enter any combat arms MOS with unlimited misdemeanors and up to 2 non-violent felonies unless they are drug related, just the guys I want toting automatic weapons in my Army, representing my country thru force of arms abroad. Then we wonder about shit like Abu Graib.
Have you participated in a two way live fire range in this current or any other conflict?Not I got stationed in Puerto Rico during Vietnam or I went to Lahndstuhl during Desert Storm. Did you have to look a man in the face, line up a front sight post on him and effectively squeeze the trigger?
I presume by your comments you havent, so what the fuck gives you the right to advocate people being called up to go die against their will? Real LIBERTARIAN thought. We all see you for the liberal neo-conn troll you are.
According to USCENTCOM, Italy had 27 soldiers in Iraq up until 2006.
My speculation is that if/when we go into Iraq (my next article/blog), we'll have the draft only because we are/have been spreading ourselves too thin.
Not a suggestion, but for those who are against this potential occurence of a draft, Richard Maybury suggests that you get your "of age, or close to of age" children a U.S. passport to "conveniently" be out of the country when the Secret Service comes a knocking. The parent should just tell them, "I don't know where he is. He went traveling the world."
He suggests that you go through a non-U.S. friendly country like Iran (of course that thinking has to be changed, ha) that doesn't scan your passport to mess up the trail of where you've been (but how do you get to where you want to go from there he didn't answer).
When I lived in Mexico for six months I met a Mexican/Cuban couple who told me that an American can fly from Mexico to Cuba without a problem of showing a passport upon arrival. Just not sure where one could fly from Cuba too... I'm sure Venezuela and even Colombia are still on that "disappear" list.
Does anyone still get Maybury's newsletter and can update this?
I agree with you that the troops are spread too thin. The answer to that is to close some of the bases for which the original rationale no longer exists.
The draft has also been used in the past to reduce unemployment figures. I expect it to be used for that purpose in the near future.
The part of the Navy that I was in pays more than the Army. But none the less I was not drafted into it, I chose to go. The Army was not drafted either. Those young men knew what they were getting into.
But since we are woried about death, then lets ban cars which have caused well over 200,000 deaths in the last five years. That is a hell of a lot more than 4,000.
Oh and for the record the Average 3rd year E-3 in the Army deployed in Iraq gets paid more than your average 3rd year Walmart employee.
I have several comments on this subject.First of all during the Vietnam war we had a draft and it certainly did not prevent or even limit the war. 57,000 young American men lost their lives in that foolishness. Having a draft now would not bring an end to this war. It would just provide our corrupt president with an unlimited supply of young bodies to throw at it. Second, Charlie Rangel’s bill is called the Universal National Service Act H.R. 393. It should rightfully be the Restoration of Slavery Act. The bill would draft every man and woman in the country between the ages of 18 and 42, other than those who have already served. That would amount to about 1/3 of the US population. Since the military does not need that many people most of them would be placed into civilian service. The type of service they would be doing is left to the discretion of the president. The president would also determine “Standards for satisfactory performance of civilian service and of penalties for failure to perform civilian service satisfactorily”. The bill does not say what the penalties might be but I note that the current president is fond of torture. That bill is the biggest assault on freedom in America since the days of slavery. It clearly violates the 13th amendment which banned slavery and involuntary servitude. If enacted it would, for the first time in our history, make American citizens servants of the state. The American people should never allow this abomination to become law.
Davud S.
U agree with most of what you say. I think that the whole national service thing is to create basically a slave army for the government to use as it pleases, which is most likely to be in building a world empire. What you say about the number of deaths and the smount of opposition to the war during Viet Nam is valid. But I think the idea that the relatively sparse loss of life during the Iraq war might lead to a conclusion that something on the Viet Nam scale is always the wrong move. The draft during Viet Nam also saw the choice of some to leave the country rather than be drafted. Voting with the feet is still the most effective way of hindering a baneful government,where it is still possible.
rtbohan, Yes Americans could vote with their feet by leaving the country. But why should we let a bunch of neo-con warmongers chase us out of our own country? Just don't give them the power of the draft and you will never have to face that situation.
Lloyd you're right in saying the neo-cons don't want the draft. At least they are not calling for the draft right now. And yes it seems that the Dems are more interested in reinstating the draft than the Republicans although their interest seems to be more along the lines of a draft for non-military service ( enslaving the population in my view). But once you have a draft the neo-cons are more likely to use it to send folks off to another war. But who knows, maybe Hillary or Obama might do it too. Anyways my point is that we should not give the politicians the power of the draft.
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2008 rtbohan, all rights reserved.