Topic: Ron Paul
Huckabee Quits, McCain Seals Nomination, Paul to Concede? All hope of a Ron Paul Presidency is over. by Jake Morphonios
(Conservative Libertarian)
Tuesday, March 4, 2008
John McCain has now gained enough committed delegates to guarantee his nomination as the Republican candidate for President.
Yes, I said committed delegates. In spite of the media's ignorance on the difference between committed and non-committed delegates, the fact remains that McCain now has the numbers to ensure his nomination in St. Paul.
Mike Huckabee dropped out of the race, conceding that there is no way that his (and Dr. Paul's) "brokered convention" strategy can work.
Ron Paul destroyed his opponent in the Republican Congressional Primary, with 70% of the vote and will keep his seat in the House of Representatives.
At this point there is no way that he can win the Republican nomination for President. No official concession has come from the Paul camp as of this posting. Of course Ron Paul is a man of his word and will stay in the "race" until the nominating convention. I just wonder if that is the right strategy when other avenues still exist.
Many supporters will sheepishly encourage us to "stay the course" and work to change the neo-con controlled Republican party from within. But how can I expect that Republicans are going to follow a Ron Paul style platform when 1) they have nominated a liberal like McCain as the party nominee and 2) they aren't bound in any way to follow the party platform anyway.
Keep in mind that even though the party platform used to be very conservative, Bush Sr. Bob Dole and Bush Jr. watered it down and did what they pleased. The party platform is non-binding. What matters isn't what the platform says, but what Republicans are willing to obey. I think we've seen that today's Republican party doesn't care about constitutional principles. If they won't obey the constitution, they won't obey a constitutional platform. The entire "let's fix the Republican platform" strategy is superfluous balderdash!
I say that the party is corrupt and beyond salvation. The Declaration of Independence states that when a political body reaches a point of tyranny that it is the duty of the citizenry to cast off that body and establish a new one. I am not content to be a modern-day Tory, trying to appease Mother England and continue begging her to change her ways. No, I say that the Republican party is dead and I have no intention of trying to resurrect it.
- - -
Now let me address what I know is on everybody's mind.
WHERE IS RON PAUL?
After Super Tuesday he just about vanished. His web site hasn't had one substantive piece of campaign news for weeks. Yes, we heard that he had to focus in on winning his Congressional seat - but that was a load of bunk. Paul wiped out Peden in the Texas Primary with 70% of the vote. His seat was NEVER in jeopardy.
I want to know where he wants us to go from here.
I want to know when the March on Washington is.
I want to know how he is going to spend the $12 million dollars he has left for his Presidential run.
I want to know if he really thinks that our only remaining course of action is to use the delegate/convention process to try to reform the Republican party platform in St. Paul.
I want to know WHY Dr. Paul is convinced that he can better communicate his message of freedom as a lone, outcast Republican legislator with no political allies compared to a third-party candidate for President with an angry and energized support base willing to do nearly anything to help him spread his message.
I want to know where Ron Paul is and what he wants me to do next.
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2008 Jake Morphonios, all rights reserved.
Published: Tuesday, March 4, 2008
Last modified: Wednesday, March 5, 2008
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Thank you, Jake. I have been echoing those same sentiments to the campaign and to Lew and on the comment threads for weeks.
I think the March will fizzle and that a better idea was advanced by one of my son-in-laws to set aside a day to descend on every county courthouse in the nation to give voice to the freedom movement. Folks can afford this and cut the travel to a short trip. The local media would probably cover it even if the MSM did not.
I have suggested that one way Dr. Paul could keep his promise and yet give us a place to vote in the general would be to be drafted as VP by the Libertarian Party. A few million votes there would let the idiots know that we are not to be neglected. BUT, whatever strategy is employed the campaign HAS to take the lead so that our effort is not fractured!
Or we could go to court and try to get McCain disqualified.
Posted By: Jeremiah Johnson
Date: 2008-03-04 22:51:59
The number of BOUND delegates that McCain has is no where close to the amount he needs. The media doesn't talk about that. They just talk about the popular vote.
I have to disagree that we can't salvage the Republican party. I went to my precinct convention tonight fully expecting to be one of only a couple of Ron Paul supporters. Only about a dozen Republican voters attended, while down the hall over 100 Democrats showed up (along with some Republicans hoping to influence the vote). I was voted Precinct Chair, and we passed resolutions that would make Ron Paul proud--including one to abolish any government entities not expressly authorized by the Constitution. We'll arrive at our county convention with 21 votes, all for Ron Paul. How many other precincts have done the same thing across the country? I am full of hope tonight, because I saw change happening at the most local level--change that can spread if we keep working for it. We talked about the current GOP senators and representatives who are not representing our views, and agreed that they have to go. There is no quick fix, but I believe we can take our government back.
Now that Dr. Paul has won his congressional district, he can concentrate countrywide on the campaign and movement. I think he was worried about district 14 as Chris Peden could campaign alone and was appearing to make some strong inroads, with the silent support of certain GOP people.
Dr. Paul has already said he will continue campaigning and it is about getting the maximum amount of delegates, which I fully support. A lot of revelations about McCain could still discredit him, as well as controversy with the "pro-war conservatives" and a recession looming. The Hagee endorsement is already hurting him with Catholics, which proved in 2004 to be the determining factor in the presidential race. He also does not carry the youth vote, where Dr. Paul dominates and this should be an important factor witin the GOP, although their numbers are limited. IMHO Dr. Paul should campaign aggressively in PA (the state where he is born) as well as all the others, where he has the chance to perform well. With the drop-out of Huckabee, he can get most of the social and fiscal conservative vote. Even if he does not get the nomination, think about the shivers in the GOP knowing say 30% plus of delegates in PA, OR, NM etc. for Ron Paul will NOT vote for McCain in a presidential election, with no endorsement of McCain by Paul. That is real pressure. The MSM has counted Romney's, Giuliani's and Thompson's delegates with McCain, but it is not sure the delegates will all vote for McCain. There is also the issue of stealth delegates for RP under McCain camp.
How do you mean there are other better avenues for Dr. Paul to follow? If you mean third party run/Indy, he has to campaign in any case, and strategically better to still campaign as a Republican in PA etc with the infrastructure and way that growing support can be proven. He can always go third party at a later stage, if Clinton is the Democratic nominee as there could be potential form the anti-war left then. But you have to think further than November 2008, if not in the GOP, the Ron Paul movement must organize itself in a new political party, which will have NO political representation in congress or senate and no opportunity until the mid-term elections in 2010, if he does not win the presidential election. While if he stays in the GOP and organize his support (he is not a lone voice, has support from a few congress men/women and may have even more after elections, where he can also endorse and fund people. He could support, endorse and fund McClintock in CA also, while getting McClintock's support and endorsement for a senator candidate that supports Dr. Paul. in MD alone, already 4 congress representatives and there are also various others. Financial requirements to come close to winning an election would be 80-100 m, not 6 or 12 m USD, among others.
Meanwhile, other actions could also be taken to keep the movement strong and build momentum and pressure.
I'm not convinced McNut has the delegates he needs, and I'm not convinced they will vote for him, regardless of whether they are "pledged" to him. He's a dangerous man. A lot can happen between now and September. McNut is in no way qualified to lead this country. Only Ron Paul can do that. Somehow, some way, Ron Paul must be our next President, or we're doomed. That's all I know.
The next step is impeachment of Bush/Cheney. Impeachment discredits the interventionist warmongers and opens the field for the peacemakers, including Dr. Paul.
Posted By: patrick henry
Date: 2008-03-05 10:01:36
Jake
Excellent article and I feel all of your frustration as I have no loyalty to the GOP, being a registered LIBERTARIAN for a decade.
I would love to see an established third party as well. If you look in the Constitution all the checks and balances occur in threes, thus having three parties would provide that similar check and balance in Congress. Stefan hits it on the head on a multitude of points. First he (Dr. Paul) would be BY HIMSELF until we could reinforce him in 2010, so steps towards that end needs to start happening NOW. He also points out that it would be better to try and still use the infrastructure to get his name out there, and if by Sep it doesnt pan out look at then maybe making an indep. run. But would this in anyway affect his Congressional seat with the party change? I wouldnt think so but dont know how the GOP would act once it became a woman scorned. Plus you think he got no MSM coverage in the past, wait til hes an indep.
If you really want Dr. Paul as a third party candidate go to your local state election commission and find out what it takes to put him on the ballot. Draft him on to it. Do you think if he won he would turn it down? This would be the true voice of the people. WE put our guy in there, not the GOP, not the neo-cons, not even the LP, but we FREEDOM loving Americans. This is our Boston Tea Party. This is how we quantify who we are. If we all fade into other camps our numbers dwindle. OK the LP is gonna have a good election b/c they will get alot of DRP protest votes. This does nothing to further the FREDOM Revolution only fracture and discredit it.
Now John makes an excellent point, the neo-conns took over the GOP pretty easily with a combination of stealth and force, so the easiest means to that end may just be to take over the GOP. But, we have to be active like Lynn (thanks for your hard work it made me feel better this am) says at ALL levels not just from the top down and this goes back to 2010.
How the whole convention thing plays out we shall see. I trust the good Dr. in his political savy, he has seen the macinations in play and no doubt knows how to manuever in that arena much better than I. I also agree the whole delegate thing is still in the air especially once considering Romneys, Guiliani, Thompson and now Huckabees delegates are up for grabs.
The march should happen, albiet late to influence the GOP primary season, but to show the machine we are for real, that we are motivaed and dedicated to the cause. I understand travel sucks and is time and money consuming, but what else in the world is more prescious than LIFE, LIBERTY and PROPERTY?
I am probably as REVOLUTIONARY as any frequent guest here, but the Founders gave us the means in which to change the system, non-violently. We need to use this opportunity to take our country back now before we have to dissolve the government that binds us.
The problem is not the system of governement (the Constitution) but those that do not follow it. So if we dissolve the form, then what do we replace it with? The problem is we have gone away from that form of government and become more of a STATE. But essentially it is the people in government that perveted our Constitution that has run us astray not the Constitution itself. So what is the fix?
In closing Jake, I have one disagreement with you. I, like you, am not willing to lick the boot that further steps on my head, however we don't need guidance from Dr. Paul. We have guidance from the founders. Change is up to us! Dr. Paul is not the movement only a mouthpiece of it. This is our Revolution, I agree it would help if Dr. Paul was more involved in guiding us, but in the end it is up to us.
"So your brothers bound and gagged, and they've chained him to a chair,
Wont you please come to DC and show your face.
From the bottom of the oceans to the mountains of the moon,
Wont you please come to DC, no else can take your place!
We can change the world, rearrange the world, its dying to get better."- Graham Nash (Sorry if the order might be out on the lyrics but you get the point)
Posted By: Alex Wallenwein
Date: 2008-03-05 10:22:49
McAmnesty absolutely does NOT have the required number of committed delegates! At this point, it is impossible for him to claim that. It is an outright media lie.
What he needs is 1191 committed delegates coming into the National Convention from the State Conventions. Until that happens, has has precisely nothing. If he is only one single delgate short of that number at that time, there WILL absolutely be a brokered convention!!
I just spoke to the national campaign office. He recently stated categorically, according to the woman I spoke to, that he would not go third party - but then she added, "... but as they say, it's not over until it's over", so I don;t know anymore than I did before, really.
Between now and the Convention in September, a whole lot of things can go down. McCain could get sick. He could blow his top and finally get institutionalized. Or better yet, if the media wall of silence cracks on the MIA-POW issue and one outlet actually reports the truth about his using his Senate position to block any and all attempts to get POWs back from Vietnam (likely because he feared they would rat him out as a communist collaborator), conservative Repubicans will stage a revolution.
In other words: They will join US! He truly is the "Last Man Standing" as I wrote before on this website. McCain has been bent over a barrel by other forces for all of his life. With that stark choice right before them, how many conservative delegate will vote for John Mc(Liberal)Stain over Ron Paul?
Read up on how many times they voted in Congress before Thomas Jefferson got a majority of the votes he needed.back in his day. I think it was 36 times, or something like that! History may truly repeat itself - and it couldn't happen with a more appropriate candidate to continue Jefferson's legacy.
I don't care what Ron Paul does anymore. He thoroughly pissed me off by not trying to win the primary and by announcing that he would not run 3rd party. I was going to vote in the GOP primary until he announced that. He lost my vote and there is only one way for him to win it back.
I am voting Libertarian, and I don't care what anyone else does. Nobody can convince me that taking over the GOP is the right thing to do when there is already a party that represents Ron Paul's views (and mine). The neocons took well over 20 years to overtake the GOP, and now the GOP is nothing but a party of pro-war idiots. Why in the world would I want to spend a generation trying to convince idiots what the Republican party is supposed to be about, and then turn around and convince everyone else that Republicans aren't idiots anymore? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
If you think Dr. Paul is
I don't care what Ron Paul does anymore. He has thoroughly pissed me off by not trying to win the primary and by announcing that he would not run 3rd party. I was going to vote in the GOP primary until he announced that. He lost my vote and there is only one way for him to win it back.
I am voting Libertarian, and I don't care what anyone else does. Nobody can convince me that taking over the GOP is the right thing to do when there is already a party that represents Ron Paul's views (and mine). The neocons took well over 20 years to overtake the GOP, and now the GOP is nothing but a party of pro-war idiots. Why in the world would I want to spend a generation trying to convince idiots what the Republican party is supposed to be about, and then turn around and convince everyone else that Republicans aren't idiots anymore? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
If you think Dr. Paul is "spreading the message" in a good fashion, think again. It's pretty easy to see that he got suckered into some deal with the GOP big whigs, and is laying low. Right now, Dr. Paul is pissing on the Libertarian Party and the message that he is supposed to represent. Dr Paul could easily get on the ballots as a Libertarian, and I saw a poll that 20% of Texans would vote for Dr. Paul as 3rd party in a runoff between McCain and Obama. Those are excellent numbers and would put a 3rd party ON THE MAP!!!!!!! Why doesn't Dr. Paul put the Libertarian Party on the map and REALLY spread the message?
It is time for the Libertarian Party to blossom, and I will throw my full new-found support behind them. Libertarian Party, here I come.
IMMHO .... I think You should take some positive steps toward anger management! I understand your frustration, however, this IS NOT your campaign. Ron Paul is NOT Stupid, Ignorant or Illinformed ! He has been doing this for many years, has more "experience" with the party and DOES have a plan! How many times does it have to be explained to you and those who are "likeminded" that this is NOT ABOUT RON PAUL !!! This is about the "RON PAUL EMPOWERED MOVEMENT" !!! He has NO DESIRE to be a "Figure Head" type leader, like his contemporaries. His idea of the "perfect role" is to be like that of the "President of Sweden" ! Why, you ask? Because NOBOBY KNOWS WHO THE PRESIDENT OF SWEDEN IS !!! His movement is about empowering us, We The People, to get off our lazy asses and take our country back. This all got started out of belief & trust in Ron Paul, his platform and his philosophy. He did not just jump up and decide one day that he wanted to be President of the Greatest & Most Powerful Country in the world. We begged and we pleaded with him to show us the way and to lead us out of damnnation and we showed our support by showering him with our love, our devotion and our money! We did it! Us! He's been working toward this change for 30 years and we have all now seen what Goliath looks like now ... and we know where his weak spot is! All we have to do now is get enough people to help us bring him down.
So, If you and your likeminded followers want to keep detracting from the positive forces of this "movement" then I, for one, would just as soon prefer that perhaps you should find somewhere else to do it, cuz you know, .... the rest of us still have work to do!
Anger management? You mean to tell me, that when Ron Paul sent out an email last month stating that he had zero chance of winning the primary, and that he would not run 3rd party, I am out of line to be upset? He basically said, "It's over. I give up and I'm not even going to try. I'm going back to doing what I was doing before." And you think I'm the silly one with anger issues? Perhaps you should look at yourself. You go on and support someone who (as you said) will be President of nothing.
Committed Delegate = Committed ONLY for the first round. If a majority of 51% is not achieved then delegates are released to VOTE THEIR CONSCIENCE subsequent rounds of voting.
Anger management? You mean to tell me, that when Ron Paul sent out an email last month stating that he had zero chance of winning the primary, and that he would not run 3rd party, I am out of line to be upset? He basically said, "It's over. I give up and I'm not even going to try. I'm going back to doing what I was doing before." And you think I'm the silly one with anger issues? Perhaps you should look at yourself. You go on and support someone who (as you said) will be President of nothing.
I WILL vote Libertarian.
Well ... bye! Can we all have a group hug first?
When you get over yourself, we'll all still be here, should you need a place to go, cuz from from what I understand from Christine Smith, the LP sure as hell isn't it!
Brokered convention = Zero Chance. Stated by Mike Huckabee and...
wait for it...
Ron Paul. The brokered convention game is over.
Want to carry on the message of why we chose Ron Paul to represent us to begin with?
Vote Libertarian. That's what I'm going to do carry on with the message. In Texas, as you know Rick, the Libertarian Party is surging big time and has candidates running in a whole lot of races all across the state. I will support those Libertarian candidates and other states should look at what the Libertarian Party has accomplished in Texas. If Ron Paul were to run as a Libertarian, the Libertarian Party would grow by a whole lot and we would have more Libertarians to vote for and support in other states and other states would allow for more Libertarians to be on the ballots for local and state positions.
McCain will not be forced out and his skeletons ARE out of the closet and still McCain won the Texas GOP primary hands down, and even if he was forced out of the running, that would not leave Ron Paul as the automatic candidate. Ron Paul will NOT win the GOP primaries. The pro-war idiots have spoken.
If Ron Paul were to run as a Libertarian, the Libertarian Party would grow by a whole lot and we would have more Libertarians to vote for and support in other states and other states (besides Texas) would allow for more Libertarians to be on the ballots for local and state positions.
And other states would allow for more Libertarians to be on the ballots for local and state positions.
That is, if Ron Paul were to run as a Libertarian. Does Ron Paul really want to spread the message or what?
Everyone is free to choose, but I do not think it will be a good idea if the Ron Paul movement is split up between those that stay in or join the GOP but do not vote for McCain - IF he will indeed be elected the nominee - and those that vote LP. The LP has NO chance of ever being a viable strong party - for several reasons - and also if they will become a strong third party, they will NEVER be in power, unless the democratic principles are (hopefully changed) which means they will be in the political wilderness forever. They could possibly even get a congressman or two elected, but what will this help? If Paul were to run as a Libertarian, he may get 20% in TX (Yes I read that too), but this will also give the Democrats (Clinton or Obama) control in TX AND the whole election and Paul will be viewed as a spoiler and outcast by the GOP and ALSO his friends in the GOP - like Walter Jones, Tom McClintock, also Murray Sabrin if he is selected senator - will have to cut off connections to Paul and Paul would be meaningless. Look at what happened to the Reform Party and Ross Perot who spent 56 m and got 19% Has he had a lasting effect??? Also to consider is that many Libertarians are pro-choice, while Paul pro-life. In other words, many Libertarians are fiscally conservative, while socially liberal. Another issue is immigration, the official LP would have some differences with Paul with this, and in the southern states and among conservatives in the GOP, Paul will never get substantial support with a McCain-Kennedy like policy. The LP is a very divided party. Ron Paul or the LP would NEVER have received the amount of enthusiasm, TV exposure (limit as it was) and support it had, had Paul run as a LP candidate initially.
We should be looking at the positive side of Paul with a 20% plus support in TX etc. if he were to run as an Independent or LP/CP candidate, he has some bargaining power with the GOP for now and the future. I say build on this power by campaigning aggressively in PA and the other remaining states. The dam will burst at some stage.
The neocon. would be a fringe group, yet they managed to take over the GOP policy during a few years/decades, but they can loose their significance just as fast, radically. If the GOP is to run with McCain and will certainly suffer a defeat in November, the neocons will have a lot less power, and then is the time to start convincing the majority in the GOP (conservatives and moderates) to go with Dr. Paul's ideals and ideas and he could take a leading role in the GOP then. If he breaks with the GOP now, he cannot rejoin with them later....
So you can overtake the GOP but you can't do anything for the Libertarian Party, huh? So the Republican Party will be real easy to overtake, but the Libertarian Party is defunct and can't be helped? I swear this is absolute garbage and backwards thinking.
So you can boldly overthrow the Republican Party, but you can't lift a damned finger for the Libertarian Party? Mighty libertarian of you.
There is no comparison of the LP with Ross Perot's Reform Party, the latter having no ideological base to hold it together. The LP is organized on the congressional district level and has been for years. It stands ready to become a major party. Its candidate will almost certainly be on the ballot in 48 states. No other third party or independent ticket can come close.
My dream ballot for November would have Ron Paul's name on it three times---as the Republican, Libertarian, and Constitution candidates. Such a history-making event would send a crystal clear message to the people of America: HERE is change you can believe in. American politics would never be the same again.
I just signed a petition from the Libertarian National Committee to Ron Paul, inviting him to seek the Party's nomination. And I'm looking to attend a local Republican Party meeting to vote on delagates to their state convention. I'm hedging my bets. The Constitution Party is next on my list.
If Ron had the Libertarian nomination in his pocket, the Republican Party would go into convention looking at a MAJOR loss in November. Nominating Ron would be their only salvation.
It's all wishful thinking at this point. But like I said, I'm hedging my bets. I want to vote for Ron.
The GOP and the DNC should be quarantined. Anyone who mixes with them risks becoming fatally infected. Their platforms are meaningless, repeat meaningless.
The most productive thing Ron Paul could do is endorse whatever candidate the LP runs.
I like Christine Smith. I don't give a flying F*** if she has any experience or not. She aint gonna win anyway. Be cool is she did though. She cant be any worse than any of the other so called experience traitors who have come before her. But I will vote for whomever they run and it would be great if all RP supporters, once they are satisfied that Ron is not on the ballot, would vote for the same party in a show of unity against all who have shunned our attempts to return this country to the power of the ordinary citizen.
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2008 Jake Morphonios, all rights reserved.