Nolan Chart
Home Be a Columnist Logon Columns Survey FAQ Newsletter Contact Print Ads Banners Links

Study Our History
columnist: Gary Wood

Like This Article?
Thumb It!
36 thumbs so far

Topic: Immigration and trade
When Illegal Alien Equates to Hate Speech Freedom Erodes

The National Council of La Raza ("the Hispanic people of the New World) is leading a charge suggesting those using illegal alien are anti-immigrant with many being hate-mongers of the Latin community as a whole. (Article Revised)
by Gary Wood
(conservative libertarian)
Tuesday, March 4, 2008

Note of Article Revision:  Thanks to Aguila1 this article has been revised.  As the author I should have more carefully researched the facts and I apologize to my readers.  I'm unable to locate a copy of the speech I initially heard in which I remeber hearing the claim "illegal alien" equated to hate speech.  This exact term is not listed under the group's website "code words" section.  However, further research did show the group is focused on lumping any discussion about illegal aliens into a discussion of all Latinos, natural born or legally immigrated or illegal aliens living here. 

A major section of their "code words" area links to a document, "Code Words in the Debate."  After reading this carefully several times I am convinced NCLR is pressing to eliminate the correct term "illegal alien" and use instead "undocumented immigrant."  By doing this the group is able to make a case that those against anyone (no matter race or nationality) entering this country illegally are actually anti-immigrant.  Throughout their text they use immigrant to describe both those here legally and those illegally (who are not immigrants but aliens).  This skews the argument leaving people who are against illegal aliens being allowed in the country to be viewed as people against ALL immigrants.  Their arguments focus on those they consider hate-mongers to actually hate anyone who is an immigrant, more specifically, a Latino immigrant and this simply is not true. 

There is also a section claiming anyone who wants illegal aliens to leave this country and re-enter legally are simply spouting rhetoric as the system is unfair and getting more expensive.  If the legal process is their argument they should work to change that process.  Instead the group's documents leave a reader with a feeling they support the illegal entry over legal entry as it is somehow either more fair or easier.  However, in being fair, I cannot find a reference to NCLR supporting open borders; this was assumed based on their own rhetoric so I will remove any reference to them supporting open borders. The basic premise is still found, the group claims people speaking out against illegal aliens are actually haters of immigrants or anti-immigrant and this continues to be a serious and false charge in my opinion. 

Changes in the original article will be in italics.  With this, or any other article I write, I am always ready to stand corrected and always appreciate any reader who invests the time to challenge my premise.  Being human I am prone to make errors and will always strive to correct those errors when discovered.  My ultimate goal is to not publish any article not founded in fact as propaganda helps neither side of any debate.  My appreciation goes out to Aguila1 for taking the time in helping correct the errors of this article.

--------------------Original article with edits in italics-------------------------------------- 

In the nationwide debate over what to do about the United States failed immigration policies and border security those in favor of amnesty are feeling very strong. The National Council of La Raza ("the Hispanic people of the New World) is leading a charge suggesting those using illegal alien are anti-immigrant with many being hate-mongers of the Latin community as a whole. On their website and in their conversations those many refer to as illegal aliens are merely "undocumented immigrants." On their WeCanStopTheHate.org website there's an entire section devoted to the latest outrages which states, "When mainstream media or politicians aid and abet hate or hate groups offend human decency, the Latest Outrage exposes their transgressions for all to see." There is also a section on the "code words" used by the hate-mongers, those being anyone who does not favor NCLR's views on the status of those in the United States illegally.

Their message sent to the Latin community drives home the point anyone speaking out against "illegal aliens" is among the enemies of their cause and enemies of Latinos. Geraldo Rivera, during an appearance on "The View" to promote his new book His Panic, specifically stated Lou Dobbs "has been shameful in his hate-mongering. I would not shake his hand because this is a man that's done more damage to the cause of sensible, comprehensive reform than anyone with a microphone." Yet often times Dobbs speaks very highly regarding Latin people while pointing to the real problem, our failed policies and politics surrounding immigration.

The group's articles conveniently exchange the correct term, "illegal alien," for the incorrect term, "undocumented immigrant," and then drop the undocumented portion in many of their stated opposition pieces.  This leaves them free to classify those against "illegal aliens" as being anti-immigrant or against all immigrants which simply is not true.  The only recognizable term for anyone living in a country without documentation is "illegal alien" whether the group chooses to accept that or not.  If anyone has properly entered a country they are either legal immigrants or legal aliens and most people have no animosity toward those living within either legal status.  The facts are anyone living in this country legally are welcomed and contribute to our nation fully.  If all entered legally we would not be having this debate at all

Addressing the National Press Club last month, NCLR President Janet Murguia pointed out a need to control free speech when it becomes hate speech. "Everyone knows there is a line sometimes that can be crossed when it comes to free speech. And when free speech transforms into hate speech, we've got to draw that line. And that's what we're doing here today. And we need to make sure that network executives will hold their people accountable and not cross that line." Those most outspoken against amnesty and open-borders with Mexico are referred to as vigilantes and hate-mongers. US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is now commonly being referred to as the Gestapo, bringing up bitter pictures of the Nazi treatment of people. The connection reached into the House of Representatives when Representative Sam Farr (D-CA) even used the description during a recent meeting by the House Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee.

These words create a combination of fear and hatred within the Latino community. Many will begin to rally to these labels and embrace the belief anyone standing in oppostion of "illegal aliens" are against them, their community, their nationality, and their country. As the fear increases and the Democratic Party takes office it is easy to imagine a time very soon when using the words together may well constitute hate speech and even a hate crime, although the group has not gone that far yet. U.S. Constitutional rights will be trampled once again based on repetition and fear. It is understood some do say disparaging things against illegal aliens and legal immigrants, sadly this is true.   Instances can also be found on the other side as hateful arguments usually result in hateful reactions.

At the very foundation of the phrase I reiterate again there is no such thing as an undocumented immigrant. The U.S. Department of State website discusses the processes required for immigrating to the United States. "This section provides information to help foreign citizens desiring to permanently immigrate to determine the visas, requirements, and related materials they will need to apply to immigrate to the United States." There are even ways aliens can enter this country with documentation if they are not planning to immigrate here. The term "alien" in connection with this topic is not a derogatory word.

If you enter as a legal alien or as a documented immigrant you have gone through the legal and proper channels for entering the United States. If you don't enter through legal and proper channels it violates the law, in other words it is illegal. A person cannot be classified as an immigrant since they have not notified the U.S. Department of State they intend to live here permanently, nor have they applied for and received approval of the proper Visa for doing so. Therefore they are in the U.S. as aliens and have done so illegally. Illegal alien must not be confused with immigrant or anti-immigrant when it is exactly what best describes any person living in this country without the proper approval and documentation to do so.

Confusing the language and creating hysteria, on either side of the debate, is dangerous for all people involved creating panic vs. panic. Right now there are no open borders and there are clearly defined legal steps necessary to immigrate here. To say anyone pointing this out is filled with hate or is a hate-monger is just as bad as anyone using the term illegal alien in a derogatory fashion. This debate cannot be allowed to crumble into a war of words because that will lead to fear, improper laws, and in the end benefit neither side of the debate. If we allow the use of "illegal alien" to ever become classified as hate speech citizen's freedoms will erode to no one's benefit.

------------------------------------------ Recent Articles -----------------------------------------------

GOP: Goodbye Old Party!

Ron Paul's Effect Unknown Yet Viable

Is Ron Paul a Good Measure for Congressional Candidates?

Michael Scheuer Says Ron Paul Understands Cause of Terrorism 

Ralph Nader Calls for Direct Democracy

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you enjoyed this article give it a thumbs up, bookmark it to your favorite site from the drop-down menu and suggest it to a friend. Thanks for taking the time to visit Nolan Chart, do come back often for the latest from all political views.

2008 by Gary Wood

Did you like this article?
If you did, Thumb It!
36 thumbs so far

©2008 Gary Wood, all rights reserved. You must have written permission from the author in order to republish this work.
Published: Tuesday, March 4, 2008
Last modified: Thursday, March 6, 2008

The views expressed in this article are those of Gary Wood only and do not represent the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates. Gary Wood is solely responsible for the contents of this article and is not an employee or otherwise affiliated with Nolan Chart, LLC in his/her role as a columnist.

Report violation by Gary Wood of Nolan Chart LLC's terms of use policy.


More Articles By Gary Wood

Be A Columnist
Tell A Friend About This Article
Leave A Comment

Reader Comments:

Posted By: JanetP
Date: 2008-03-04 04:31:20

The problems associated with illegal immigration are not going to go away until the American people rise up in numbers that overwhelm the illegals who are marching in our streets and making demands on our government.  We need to be organizing in small groups that will network into a larger movement and TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY.

Report violation


Posted By: Ivan from Oregon
Date: 2008-03-04 07:23:23

The meaning and impact of words gets co-opted all the time. A good example is the phrase "gay nineties", which meant something very different not that long ago than it does now.

Report violation


Posted By: Jim Hines
Date: 2008-03-04 08:58:14

The fact that this issue is nearly a lost cause is indicative of how irrelevant our  (legal citizens) participation has become.  

Both parties pander for votes. Both have obligations to their "donors" to provide cheap labor.

Meanwhile anyone assuming that good citizenship requires a respect for the "rule of law" has been schtuped again.

Don't expect any assistance from the Ron Paul "base" (GOP) though. Speaking out against this could be mistaken as "bad manners". 

Report violation


Posted By: Aguila1
Date: 2008-03-04 09:34:57

If you agree with Gary's article you probably will not agree with my position on the subject... Another point in which I differ with R Paul, though I support him:

As a libertarian I believe in freedom, as in unimpeded action, not control. As a Constitutionalist, I see no mention in the Constitution granting the government the right to label some residents, legal or illegal.

For an indepth essay I wrote on the subject:

http://northstarrising.blogspot.com/ 

Report violation


Posted By: ivan
Date: 2008-03-04 09:56:53

GOP committed a political suicide with their racist stand on immigration. Just wait and see until November. They are doomed to a minority status for decades to come. Bye-bye, Lou Dobbs, Tom Tancredo, and other monsters!

Report violation


Posted By: Jim Hines
Date: 2008-03-04 10:15:09

In my perfect idealistic world we travel and work across borders. But if we are going to have immigration laws which I'm fairly certain we do, then they should be adhered to. Otherwise the underground economy has a deleterious effect on the above ground one.

Report violation


Posted By: Jim Hines
Date: 2008-03-04 10:42:52

@ ivan

 

Enlighten me. Why is it racist to suggest current immigration law be obeyed?

Report violation


Posted By: MikeFoster
Date: 2008-03-04 12:41:34

Great work, Gary.

I think Jim makes a very good point here. We have current laws we don't enforce - then we make new laws to band-aid the symptoms caused by not enforcing existing laws. It's insane.

I love the libertarian idea of open borders. But it can't be done in isolation. Other libertarian ideas would need to also be implemented for it all to work properly. You can't just open the borders without changing anything else - heck that's just about what we have now!

Report violation


Posted By: Aguila1
Date: 2008-03-04 15:39:21

No surprise that the history of immigration law in this country is one defined by racism, from the Naturalization Act of 1790 onwards.

Agreed that the borders should be controlled. The only way to do this without greatly expanding the powers of the State and straining the economy is to make immigration legal. Then immigrants would come through normal routes of travel, not brave the desert.

The only ones taking the difficult route would be the ones with something to hide.

As to the deleterious affect on the economy, I would suggest that if the underground economy could be stopped in an instant, the entire economy might implode. Experts concede it may be as high as 33% of the GNP.

Those most concerned about the underground economy are those in the government, who complain about lost tax revenue. The underground economy may just be the engine keeping the economy afloat in this country.

In the battle between the forces of liberty and the forces of government control, I will always side with liberty. In this case, against impediments to anyone wishing to improve their status in life in our beloved country.

Let them learn what it means to become an American - defender of liberty, justice and freedom - that these words actually mean something, not to be put aside to justify a political agenda of control and taxation.

Report violation


Posted By: JanetP
Date: 2008-03-04 16:56:45

The 'open borders' philosophy can never work when one country is so much more prosperous than others.  If we don't control immigration, the U.S. will soon become the third world country illegal immigrants are seeking to leave behind.

Report violation


Posted By: Jim Hines
Date: 2008-03-04 17:28:48

@ Aguila1

"I would suggest that if the underground economy could be stopped in an instant, the entire economy might implode."

I see it just the opposite. With out the negative pressure from someone who will work for less and won't demand health care and fair  working conditions for fear of being reported,then legal labor in this country would have a  stronger position to bargain from. Both on an individual basis and at a collective level.

People in favor of illegal aliens are people who want to exploit labor. It's always been that way since the first endentured servants were shipped over.

The so called economy will either solve the problem or exascerbate it. Good economy no problem. Bad economy big problem.

It has nothing to do with race. Whatever ethnic group will work for less and keep their mouth shut that is who business will exploit. The idea is to keep all our citizens in weak positions regarding our labor. Keep wages low. Keep all of us fighting over crappy low paying jobs. Keep our mouths shut because there's always someone even more desperate than you who will take your crappy job. And keep us fighting each other because of race not fighting business because it is raping labor.

 

Report violation


Posted By: Pancho
Date: 2008-03-04 20:21:13

 

The La Raza mantra

 

First, “La Raza” means The Race, and in the context that NCLR and Janet Murguia uses it means “The Bronze Race”.  

All of the laws should be enforced equally, regardless of race, religion, and/or national origin. That is with the exception of hispanics, and they should be above the law and exempt from the law. And the only purpose that a tonto gringo serves is to pay taxes to support the superior and noble hispanic.

 

Anyone who disagrees with this philosophy is Xenophobic and a Racist.

  

All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

George Orwell, Animal Farm, ch.10, 1945

 

Report violation


Posted By: Debbie
Date: 2008-03-04 20:49:28

JanetP is right!  We are running out of time and must unite and fight back. We need thousands of groups all over America fighting for our country.  We have the large organizations such as FAIR, NumbersUSA, etc., but they can only do so much.  We need to do more ourselves.

First we  should contact our Senators and Congressmen and Congresswomen and demand all funding to LaRaza and groups that support and aid illegal aliens be stopped.  LaRaza is now asking for an additional $50 million of our tax dollars!  These groups are committing a felony by aiding illegal aliens. They should lose their tax exemption as well.  They are breaking the law!  That should be the first place to start and start tomorrow!  These groups want to silence freedom of speech while taking our money to support illegal aliens.  It's time "we the people" enforce our laws!

Report violation


Posted By: Aguila1
Date: 2008-03-04 20:55:27

Friends: Freedom is the factor that gave the US first world status. Immigration could never turn the US into a third world country, on the contrary, the manufacturers would return home. The workers would spend their money here.

Now some of you would have to compete with lower wages. That is a reality of competition, just as when the Irish arrived in NY during the potato famine, they were not well-received, either.

But isn't it better to have unskilled workers working here and contributing to our economy, than competing against us in China and elsewhere?

As to the underground economy: Exploitation of illegals is just one very small factor in the US black market, which is an engine of economic growth.

www.mises.org/etexts/underground.pdf

The solution to stop exploitation of illegals, is to decriminalize human migration. Let the people come in, get their work passes and get to work. Get rid of the minimum wage and let the free market sort things out.

America's economic greatness was built upon the free market and the willingness to work hard. Today's "illegals" exemplify that belief and work ethic.

Let us, through our actions, show the rest of the world how to get rid of our debt and create real wealth, by liberating the marketplace and eliminating the economic drag of taxation.

Don't let the immigration question become the red herring to distract us from the real issues at hand - Our government is bankrupting us. It is our government that may bring us down to the level of a third world nation. We already are the world's largest debtor nation. More freedom is the answer, not protectionism.

 

Report violation


Posted By: Pancho
Date: 2008-03-04 21:08:41

Aguila1 what do you do for a living?

Report violation


Posted By: Debbie
Date: 2008-03-04 21:26:53

Aguila1 wrote: But isn't it better to have unskilled workers working here and contributing to our economy, than competing against us in China and elsewhere?

What do you think is happening now?  Mexico is leaning on us because they don't want to and can't  compete with China  anymore than we can!  They cannot compete with India either.  Pat Buchanan wrote an excellent commentary today on trade and protectionism.  Protectionism is what built American into the greatest producer of goods in the world until now!  It's fine for you to want America to be reduced to a third world living standard but that's not what our fathers and grandfathers fought and died for.  They fought to give us freedom and the greatest nation on earth with the highest standard of living know to the modern world!   You act as if that is no small thing. "We the people" choose a better life and are willing to work and fight for it.  I don't know where you are from but apparently  you don't cherish what America is.  

Report violation


Posted By: Pancho
Date: 2008-03-04 21:47:11

Aguila1 you have a theory illegal immigration is economically beneficial it society. 

This should be easy to prove or disprove.

If the presence of criminal aliens has a positive effect cities and states with high levels of illegal immigration should have a budget surplus and lower crime. 

Instead we see the opposite.  The cities and states wellbeing is directly related to the number of illegals, the more illegals the bigger the budget shortfall and the higher the crime rate.

Report violation


Posted By: Aguila1
Date: 2008-03-04 22:01:19

Pancho: Writer and artist.

Debbie: That's nonsense about protectionism building America into the greatest producer. We became the greatest producer because the free market allowed industry the freedom to compete with the rest of the world.

We are not owed the highest standard of living, which by the way, we no longer have - we're down to about 10th place.

We can not be productive if all production is disappearing overseas. No amount of protectionism will bring the manufacturing jobs back.

But cutting the minimum wage and allowing the most unskilled to have those jobs will produce a ripple effect throughout the economy. Skilled laborers will be able to find work from the new manufacturing jobs.

Are you all arguing from the position of unskilled labor? If you can't learn some skills to get into a higher income bracket, then nothing will help you. There's a billion Chinese dying to do what you do.

I do cherish America - that is why I propose economic solutions  to save us, based on economic reality, not wishful thinking. It's not the 1950s anymore, so wise up.

For your information I'm from New Jersey. Born and raised. 

Report violation


Posted By: Aguila1
Date: 2008-03-04 22:08:39

Pancho: It took me two seconds to find an article disproving your point about an increase in violence:

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion/oped.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-03-04-0017.html

The truth isn't always convenient. 

Report violation


Posted By: Debbie
Date: 2008-03-04 22:30:17

You can find articles to claim more violence, less violence etc., it really doesn't matter. You  have stated America has dropped to 10th place in living standard worldwide  and yet you want us to believe to continue down the same path we are on is good for America.  This path has led us to 10th place. Those of us who live out here in the real America know things have changed for the worse.  Our schools are failing, our jails are overflowing, our hospitals are going bankrupt and our neighborhoods are declining into third world cesspools.  That's what is happening to America and illegal immigration as well as legal immigration has helped to bring it on.  You're right, the TRUTH  isn't always convenient.

 By Pat Buchanan 

"Our workers' instincts are backed up by stats. In 2007, the U.S. trade deficit with Mexico soared 16 percent to $73 billion, a record. Mexico now ships more cars to us than we ship to the world. And where did Mexico get an auto industry?

The U.S. trade deficit with China shot up 10 percent to $256 billion, the largest trade deficit ever between any two countries.

Charles MacMillion of MBG Services has run the numbers.

In manufactures, the United States had a trade deficit of $499 billion in 2007, a slight improvement over the $526 billion record in 2006. Yet that trade deficit in manufactured goods with the world is more than twice as large as our $224 billion bill for OPEC's oil.

Under Bush, the U.S. trade deficit has doubled. Three million manufacturing jobs have vanished. And America has begun to run a trade deficit in advanced technology goods of more than $50 billion.

Our trade deficit in advanced technology goods with China is $67 billion, eight times what it is with Japan.

"Free trade is essential to the creation of high-paying quality jobs," said Bush on Thursday. But if exports create jobs (and they do), imports displace them. And if we import half a trillion dollars more in manufactures than we export, is not Bush trade policy literally slaughtering industrial jobs?

 Is there not a correlation between $4.3 trillion in trade deficits under Bush, the 3 million manufacturing jobs lost under Bush, the fall of the dollar by 50 percent against the euro under Bush and the resurgence of inflation, signaled by a quadrupling of the price of gold, under Bush?

Neither Hillary nor [link edited for length] has laid out a new trade-and-tax policy to deal with the de-industrialization of America and our deepening dependency on foreign technology, manufactures and the loans to pay for them. But at least they are listening to the country. 

John McCain seems blind and deaf to the crisis. In Michigan, he informed autoworkers their "jobs are not coming back" and explained his philosophy: "I'm a student of history. Every time the United States has become protectionist ... we've paid a very heavy price."

This is ahistorical nonsense. From 1860 to 1913, the United States was the most protectionist nation on earth and produced the most awesome growth of any nation in history. In 1860, the U.S. economy was half of Britain's; in 1913, more than twice Britain's.

In 1920, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge won a landslide, cut income taxes from Wilson's 69 percent to 25 percent and doubled tariffs. America went on a tear. When Coolidge went home in 1929, the United States was producing 42 percent of the world's manufactured goods. 

Who were America's protectionists?

[link edited for length] and James Madison moved the Tariff Act of 1789 through Congress. Aided by Henry Clay, John Calhoun, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, President Madison enacted the Tariff of 1816 to protect U.S. infant industries from British dumping.

Abraham Lincoln used Morrill Tariff revenue to fight the Civil War. The 11 GOP presidents who followed, from 1865 to 1929, all protectionists, made America the greatest industrial power in history, with a standard of living never before seen. Mocking protectionism, McCain is repudiating Republican history and all its achievements up to the era of Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon.

America rose to power behind a Republican tariff wall. What has free trade wrought? Lost sovereignty. A sinking dollar. A hollowing out of U.S. manufacturing. Stagnant wages. Wives forced into the labor market to maintain the family income. Mass indebtedness to foreign nations, and a deepening dependency on foreign goods and borrowings to pay for them. We have sacrificed our country on the altar of this Moloch, the mythical Global Economy.

It took Rip Van Republican 20 years to wake up to the disaster of open borders and five years to realize the folly of igniting wars in which no vital interest was at risk. How long before the GOP wakes up to the reality that globalism is not conservatism, never was, but is a pillar of Wilsonian liberalism, in whose vineyards our faux conservatives now daily labor."

Report violation


Posted By: boaz
Date: 2008-03-04 23:02:29

Undocumented worker instead of illegal alien is the same as unlicensed pharmacist instead of crack dealer.

 

Common sense is becoming increasingly uncommon.

The influx of ILLEGAL ALIENS is at a pandemic state, they need to be deported, employers who hire them HEAVILY fined, and the 'anchor baby' laws repealed retroactively back at least 18 years.

 

Live with it, the truth is liberating.

Report violation


Posted By: Jasper
Date: 2008-03-04 23:05:10

Report violation


Posted By: Jim Hines
Date: 2008-03-04 23:37:31

All the numbers and studies are just jibberty jabber.

They are called illegal aliens because they are illegal (unlawful). Why do you think there is a big effort to make that a politically incorrect term? It's "illegal" and that is the bottom line. When one law is flaunted they all become irrelevant. We live or die by the "rule of law". 

Workers should not be treated as a commodity. Time, yours and mine has value. It is a non renewable, finite resource. You can't treat people the way you would bushells of wheat. Time is the commodity and the potential of unpredictable levels of time for sale without structural impediments causes downside pressure on the intrinsic value of that time.

Labor, skilled and unskilled is the most important and most expensive variable in the business model. We are outsourcing jobs that can only be done here. That is wrong. It is being done with the assistance of our government. That is a crime. It couldn't be done other wise. The protection should be in favor of labor from legal citizens. Mirgrant workers are just a step above slaves. Agri-business has it's mouth firmly afixed to the government teet.  It's all about more for the coporations, the BOD's and the shareholders. It's wrong. More workers skilled or otherwise, depresses wages. Business will do everything it can to depress them anyway. Why subsidize that behaviour? We can't treat people like an inanimate philosophical portion of the "free market" equation. We are people. Our time is all we really have. This is a new day and age. It's not the industrial revolution. There are no more family farms. The life boats are nearly full. Labor deserves a voice. It is silenced by copious amounts of cheap, illegal labor. It's simply does not pass the fairness test. The tests and studies and charts are meaningless. People resent it, they feel it and it is "demoralizing".

Furthermore China is a perfect example of how it is impossible to compete against coerced low wages. 

Arguing in favor of unlimited, illegal, cheap labor is an arguement in favor of slavery.

Report violation


Posted By: Logical Premise
Date: 2008-03-05 00:44:45

I can't believe you people are actually arguing the economics of this. It's like you have a babble switch.

When political action groups can label a TECHNICAL LEGAL TERM such as "illegal alien" as "hate speech", you have too much "liberty" and not enough "free speech" in this country.

Sooner or later, mark my words: it will come down to a choice between being politically correct and your rights. See which way the American Idiot Voter chooses. 

I, for one, did part of my thesis on outsourcing and illegal immigrants. IF there are concerted efforts in retraining workers displaced by illegals, and IF criminal elements are removed, and IF the illegals do not gain legal rights in the country hosting them, or draw on tax services, then they can be beneficial.

But that's not the case, Aguila1. Now we have them drawing on medicial services, having their children in the country and taking up school space, and absorbing middle-skill jobs like carpentry, electrical work, bricklaying, forklift handling, etc. Some of these are $15 to $20 an hour positions being paid to illegals for $3 to $5. Your vaunted "free market" is reducing the amount of workers who will buy higher ticket items and the difference is going into the CEO's bonus.

It's a good thing I don't mind paying taxes. 

Report violation


Posted By: Jasper
Date: 2008-03-05 03:28:52

Aguila1 said: "The solution to stop exploitation of illegals, is to decriminalize human migration. Let the people come in, get their work passes and get to work. Get rid of the minimum wage and let the free market sort things out."

So Aguila1, how many foreigners should we allow to "migrate" here? 10 million? 25 million? 100 million? 250 million? No limits?

Report violation


Posted By: Ozlanthos
Date: 2008-03-05 08:27:41

"Undocumented worker instead of illegal alien is the same as unlicensed pharmacist instead of crack dealer."

 Sad, sick, funny part about it is that I'd trust the pot-dealer over the average "licensed pharmacist"...At least I KNOW "marijuana" won't kill me...

Report violation


Posted By: Aguila1
Date: 2008-03-05 09:27:25

Just because protectionism was in use during the time of US economic explosive growth, does not logically follow that it was a result thereof. This is an example of the logical fallacy of causality. It is more likely that the economic growth occurred despite the protectionism. Or, as free-market economists suggest, the economic growth would have been many times greater.

http://isil.org/resources/lit/free-trade-protectionism.html

The argument that laws should be followed without question, as Jim Hines suggests, is most abhorrent in light of American history and its many unjust and injurious laws.

You don't want to consider labor a commodity like any other, but that ignores the laws of economics.

The simplistic fantasy is that the illegal migrant caused our nation's problems. The reality is that corporate and union greed via protectionism has made America non-competitive in a global marketplace.

Dream on about sending back millions of immigrants. Fantasize about revoking someone's citizenship because his parents were illegals in violation of the Constitution. It will never happen.

Now consider the positive benefits of regaining our manufacturing capacity. If the jobs stay at home all those workers, albeit at lower wages, will spend their money on renting your apartments, shopping in your stores, buying your goods and services. In other words, creating wealth for all.

I say let's crank up the engine of US economic might while we still can and compete head to head with the Chinese, Mexicans, whomever. We have more manufacturing savvy, don't have to pay overseas shipping costs, and still have the largest consumer economy to buy our products right here, curtailing trade deficits.

Does anyone else not see the economic common sense behind what I am proposing? 

 

 

Report violation


Posted By: Debbie
Date: 2008-03-05 09:55:07

Aguila1....

"Does anyone else not see the economic common sense behind what I am proposing?"     NO

You answered this question yourself as follows:

Aguila1 If the jobs stay at home all those workers, albeit at lower wages, will spend their money on renting your apartments, shopping in your stores, buying your goods and services. In other words, creating wealth for all"

Lower wages do not equal "wealth." 

"I say let's crank up the engine of US economic might while we still can and compete head to head with the Chinese, Mexicans, whomever. We have more manufacturing savvy, don't have to pay overseas shipping costs, and still have the largest consumer economy to buy our products right here, curtailing trade deficits."  The recent European tanker contract wil create 150,000 jobs in Europe and only 4 to 6 thousand here in America.  PROTECTIONISM would have kept those jobs here!  It appears to me you are the one lacking common sense. 

"free-market economists" have an agenda hence they crunch numbers in favor of that agenda.  The fact is, while we endorsed protectionism, America grew into the most productive nation on earth.  When we failed to embrace that concept, we began the fall.   Call it what you want to but that is history and that is fact.  The proof is in the pudding!   

You suggest: 

"Now consider the positive benefits of regaining our manufacturing capacity. If the jobs stay at home all those workers, albeit at lower wages,..."

Wouldn't regaining our manufacturing capacity have to be done via  "protectionism?"  While you tell us to dream on about deporting millions of illegal aliens, I would say the same to you about regaining   all of our manufacturing  jobs. It isn't going to happen when companies can hire cheap labor overseas, even cheaper than illegal labor here in Amercia.  Mexico is already feeling the effects of cheap labor in China! 

 


 

 

Report violation


Posted By: Aguila1
Date: 2008-03-06 10:49:21

Gary: After going through all this, I went back and looked up the NCLR site to understand their position.

1) I could not find any objection to the term illegal alien as you implied.

2) They are against an open borders policy.

3) They oppose amnesty.

So, instead I find that your essay is nothing more than a poorly disguised piece of propoganda.

I invite all to check out the NCLR site and see for yourself. The code words they refer to are hate-filled and dehumanizing.  

Propoganda has traditionally been used as a tool to control the masses by the State. Don't be fooled. 

http://www.nclr.org/content/faqs/detail/43266 

Report violation


Posted By: Gary
Date: 2008-03-06 11:39:09

Aguila1, thank you for your careful research.  The claims on illegal aliens being hate speech and the term undocumented immigrant should be used instead came from a rally broadcast on CNN where the President of NCLR was speaking. 

Since I don't want to be a propogandist I will look deeper into a reliable source for this position.  If I cannot find one I will remove this article and post a retraction.  Propoganda is not helpful, you have been and I humbly appreciate it.

Report violation


Posted By: RickSp
Date: 2008-04-30 17:10:46

I find it sad though not surprising that so many have no grasp of even recent history or economics.  So much of what is said and written about undocumented workers is false yet is accepted at face value. How may times have we all heard the claim that immigrants are bankrupting our economy when the facts suggest nothing of the sort?  Or the oft repeated nonsense about only supporting "legal immigration" when our profoundly flawed laws for all intents and purposes make legal immigration impossible for a majority of immigrants?

 Then again, being a nation of immigrants we have always also had a deep strain of xenophobia and nativism just below the surface.  The children of immigrants always seem eager to slam the door behind them.  We are going through another cycle where the "foreigner is the enemy". Sad that we forget where we all come from and the meaning of the phrase "liberty and justice for all".

Report violation


Want to comment on this article? Leave your comment here. Your email address is required to track your comment. However, we will neither publish your email address nor distribute it to other organizations or persons. The only reason we might use it would be if we needed to contact you regarding your comment. All comments are subject to our terms of use policy.

Leave A Comment

Your Name:  

Your Email Address*:  

Your Comment: