Topic: Religion and Government
Jesus and Ron Paul The Bible or the Constitution? Are we, in the name of Liberty, forced to make such an "either-or" distinction?by creator
(libertarian)
Wednesday, February 27, 2008
I was surprised and pleased this morning to come across Jim Hine's thoroughly well-stated article on Nolan Chart, titled "Ron Paul and Jesus." Jim not only supports Ron Paul's candidacy, but also honors Dr. Paul for his spiritual principles. I was therefore also surprised, although I should not have been, at the non-Christian perspective from which Jim writes:
"The followers of Jesus have joined the GOP in great numbers and their agenda is to bend the rule of law to the authority of Jesus, as they understand it, from their reading and interpretation of a book called the bible."
I responded to Jim's observations with a comment of my own, and as an author writing from another perspective I've decided to publish my reply:
Jim, as a "follower of Jesus" I greatly appreciate this very clear and consise statement of your perspective. I see that you and I have "common cause" in many ways. Thank you also for your delightfully civil and further enlightening responses to the comments here!
I would observe that there is sadly a vast gap between the true "follower of Jesus" -- Ron Paul being a sterling example -- and the typical pew-sitter "Christian." Were Jesus truly "followed" by the nominal "Christian" in America, this present farce of an "election" would be moot, Bush and company would be thrown out on their posteriors, and Ron Paul -- or any other righteous man! -- would be installed by popular acclaim.
Jesus said there are only two rules that matter, given in this order of priority:
Love God above all else
Love your neighbor as yourself
Agreeing with Lorin Partain [Note: Partain challenged the assumption that the bible has no place in public policy], I point out that these principles come from Scripture. I fully understand your inability to adhere to the first, and I have no problem with that. However, if we were all "followers of Jesus" to the extent that we got only the second one right, America would be transformed. Feel free anytime to point out the utter hypocrisy of "Christians" who pretend to hold to the former while sanctimoniously disregarding the latter!
An now a postscript:
Did I say I write from another perspective? Both Jim and I have been classified by the Nolan Chart website quiz as "Libertarian," both of us at the "peak" of that category in the chart. But that chart is of course limited to a two-dimensional political map and doesn't represent one of many possible third dimensions, that of "theology" or "faith in God."
I have noticed that many of the Nolan Chart authors are Christians of one stripe or another, more often than not ones that I would evaluate as adherents to both of Jesus' "top two" commandments. There are also authors here who are atheist and agnostic, some of them vocal opponents of Christianity. Nevertheless, most of them are clear examples of a theological principle known as "common grace," in that they are far better exemplars of "following Jesus," in practical terms, than are most so-called Christians.
America, by the Founders' design, and Ron Paul, by his clear understanding of the Founders' intent, are all about LIBERTY! True "followers of Jesus" understand and promote the advancement of this cause. It is fairly easy to see that Libertarian principles flow quite naturally from the golden rule -- but however derived, I find myself in "violent agreement" with Jim, and my liberty to personally adhere to Scripture poses no threat to anyone. It is only an erroneous understanding of "the authority of Jesus" that has led many so-called Christians to strive to "bend the rule of law," for which they are and should be justly condemned.
As a "follower of Jesus," my hope would be that Jim Hine might one day come to recognize that the "golden rule" itself flows from what Jesus called the first and great commandment:
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." - Mat 22:37
However, with respect to restoring the federal government of the United States to its proper role, getting only the second one right -- "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" -- would certainly do the trick!
Jim, thanks for your outstanding writing on the Chart.... I hope you'll consider joining the Columnists Lounge, I'm sure you could make a real contribution there.
The views expressed in this
article are those of creator only and do not represent
the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates. creator is
solely responsible for the contents of this article and is not an
employee or otherwise affiliated with Nolan Chart, LLC in his/her role as a columnist.
The historical/archeological and scientific TRUTH that Jesus is just another SunGod such as Horos, Krishna, Apollonius of Tyana and others, nothing more than a personified image of the actual SUN, and the fact that the Bible is nothing more than a compilation of writings (many without any archeological backing) which were chosen and rearranged by King James (another corrupted authoritarian historical character)who's main purpose was to keep on solidifying the manipulation tactic that Religion is, should allow us to see that this concept of Religion is nothing more that a source of psychological "comfort" for the masses and as such should not be taken into consideration when dictating the laws of a nation.
*"Love your neighbor as yourself" is a human concept based common individual and group/tribe/society beneficial behavior towards a more harmonious state of existence, a lot older than any "bible".
@Carlos: We have much less archaeological backing for Aristotle and Plato, with their biographies and writings showing up centuries after their death, yet we treat them as real. Jesus' show up within seventy years, by contrast. I certainly don't agree with the traditional interpretation of who He was, but He wasn't a sun god in any event.
By the way, in order for your argument to work, you're supposed to refer to Osiris, and his transmission to the Greek tradition as Dionysus, to Orphicism, to Mithraism. None of whom were demonstrably real. Jesus, by contrast, has historical reference within a century, and mention by the great Josephus within three. You can argue Jesus as the fulfillment of these pagan prophecies or as an Avatar, but He isn't the sun.
@Creator: Nice observation about common grace. We don't hear enough about that. Nice work.
Right On! I'm in line with creator and his good natured sentiments towards Jim.
The role of judgement should remain in the church where it belongs Biblically and not in the political arena.
Thank you for your comments, Carlos. I would be genuinely interested in any evidence you may have of the appearance of "love your neighbor as yourself" in any writings that pre-date its appearance in Leviticus 19.
Regarding "TRUTH," the scriptures you so lightly dismiss assert that Jesus is Truth embodied, which is what Christians (who are not "in name only") believe. Your assertion that Jesus is "nothing more" than the list of others you present doesn't hold up to even the most casual historical analysis. His advent is, even today, the most widely acknowledged historical watershed event, dividing the most commonly used calendar itself into BC and AD.
The point of my article, however, is that regardless of how you or I may arrive at "love your neighbor as yourself," we can have common cause in restoring the Republic and we can live together in liberty and in peace. That's the beauty of Ron Paul's approach to government.
Whoa Carlos...slow down big fella.
The writings of the Tanakh (Old Testament) predate all of those SunGod religions which are mere distortions of the prophesied Son (not Sun) of God.
Let's not put the proverbial cart before the horse now.
COMMON SENSE tells us that the principle of "love your neighbor as yourself" is openly shown on the development of Pre-Jesus cultures (Incas, Mayas, Aztecs.. etc). As in any civilization there was corruption and injustice but the principle exist,.. only through love, harmony and common goals could these ancient civilizations build empires such as Tahuantinsuyo from northern Colombia to Tierra del Fuego - Argentina. There's your evidence.
Once again, Religion is nothing more that a source of psychological "comfort" for the masses, a false sense of security after death.
Jesus (the SUN of God) with his 12 disciples (12 Constellations) was born on Dec 25th (alignment of Sirius -the brightest star- the "Three Kings" -Orion's belt- and the SUNrise at winter solstice), son of Mary (Constellation of Virgo - virgin- just like Maya or Myrra), who died on the cross (constellation of crux) for three days (the SUN stays at its lowest point on the winter solstice for three days) and resurrected (the SUN moves north one degree on the third day)after three days.
Jesus, the latest SUNGOD (out of a list of 16 or 17 characters) changed the course of history, for the worse... and if you can't see it and balance out the benefits of this delusional Judeo/Christian belief against it non-existence then you are completely numbed out by the psychological comfort you and many find in religion and the ability to "talk to invisible supernatural beings" who are keeping track of what we do right and what we do wrong, to then give us the benefits or punishments after life in accordance to the life we lived. We as a one world are slowly evolving into smarter human beings, according to The World Christian Encyclopedia (1985)(how ironic), more than a billion of the world's people consider themselves nonreligious (agnostic about religious claims) or atheistic (actively opposed to religion), It also reports that 20 million of these non-religious/atheists live in North America.
It's an insane world, full of insane people and I am glad to not be a part of it.
Z,.... No they don't, and if you'd like to take "old writings" into account you should then look at what the Sumerians had to say about our origins.
You just find peace in speaking to invisible people, most religious people do. To me, the whole supernatural being fiasco is just insane,.. as insane as our Foreign Policy or maybe even worse.
Having pondered your thoughts I'm thinking maybe it would be interesting to read/write an article defining "love" as it applies to politics and or citizenship.
To All who took the time and trouble to read and comment here, Thank You!, but thanks especially to Jim for your comment, as I wrote this in response to your article.
Jim, an article on "applied love" sounds like a very cool idea.... Want to hear something that you may find amusing? As I was writing my response to your article, I kept starting to find a fault in some particular of yours, and then when I went back to "check my facts" I would find that you had already actually made a very accurate statement, or had allowed for the exception that I was thinking of! :)
Well, if you do write an article about "love" in the context of politics and citizenship, I'm sure it will be original and will require careful thought and appreciation before I respond to it! :)
Posted By: Scott from Oregon
Date: 2008-02-28 13:05:26
The notion "Love thy neighbor as yourself"
Or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
...were underlying moral tenets in every succcessful society that predates the supposed god/man Jesus.
Science is determining (it is a process of discovery, after all) that modern humans have been around a few hundred thousand years. These humans set up social structures and the successful structures survived. The only way for that to have occured, is if members of these tribes acted in accordance with this principle. One can see the principle hidden in the results (survival) without having to find texts from non-writing humans. The pyramids, for example, were built by large communal groups with a shared goal. Human solidarity would have to have occured to have been as successful as they were given the tools that they had.
there is not a single moral statement made in the bible that survives today, that didn't occur outside of the bible.
However, the bible is full of immoral statements and teachings that humans today find repugnant and immoral.
Human sacrifice. Patricide. Infanticide. Genocide... Scapegoating... The list is long and sickening.
The very idea of teaching children that they will go to "hell" is repugnant and immoral.
Lying to children is immoral.
Morality exists IN SPITE OF, not because of, the bible or the Koran or the Book Of Mormons etc....
Andrea, the information I got was from many years of study in the field of Theology at the institution I went to, University of Miami in Fla,.. Zeitgeist is just one of the many recent videos made based on scientific/archeological and scientific knowledge.
My friend Harvey takes exception to critical commentary such as this. He is concerned that you may possibly have it in for exceptionally tall invisible white rabbits, or could it be some resentment regarding Púcas in general. Elwood P. Dowd
"Grown ups with imaginary friends are stupid".... as simple as that Elwood,.. there's nothing else to it. Religion just takes care of the psychological comfort human beings are looking for,... the whole thing is really sad.
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