Topic: Ron Paul
Ron Paul Republicans are Blunting the Revolution. Don't waste an historic opportunity to loosen the white knuckled grip the two powerful major political parties have on the system.by Jim Hines
(Libertarian)
Sunday, February 24, 2008
As Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton would say, "It's time for a reality check." (Hey, if RP can quote Trotsky.....)
Ron Paul is not going to be on the ballot in the fall. That is a tragedy but it is also the truth. The GOP is not going to let Ron Paul Republicans hijack the convention and quite frankly neither will the rest of the country. Once that reality becomes crystal clear, after the initial gnashing of teeth and renting of cloth, what will you Ron Paul Republicans do?
Apparently the current strategy as I understand it, from my reading of not only Nolan Chart but other forums where Ron Paul supporters gather, is to infiltrate local Republican precincts and work from within to affect change. To work within those existing structures to turn back the clock as it where and restore the once honorable GOP to it's so called conservative stance. Last seen some where around 1952.
However, a little fact checking will quickly reveal to anyone who isn't genetically predisposed to supporting the GOP, that the so called once Grand Old Party never was all that grand, even way back then. Case in point, Eisenhower (R) is the president who approved "Operation Ajax" which overthrew the first democratically elected government in Iran. Arguably a partial cause of our current Middle East dilemma. An act of international interventionism, that has us now on the brink of potential nuclear holocaust. The current front running Republican has sung gleefully bomb, bomb, Iran.
Ron Paul is a Republican. He has always been a Republican accept for one minor foray into the Libertarian party for a run at POTUS back in the late eighties. He is not changing parties. His most recent statement yesterday indicates that he see's the future clearly. Chances of getting the nomination are not looking real good. If he doesn't get the Republican nomination he is not going to run on another ticket. That is fine. I respect that decision. But where does that leave the folks who agree with his positions? Positions which the current Republican Party emphatically rejects. How can any of us who have supported Ron Paul possibly vote Republican in the general election? To do so would only confirm what the MSM has believed of us all along. That we are crazy. How can any of us join up with a party so far from our core values? Why would anyone move into a house infested with termites? To do so displays bad judgement.
Please wake up now! We don't have the numbers to win the POTUS. But we do have the numbers to affect the election in a positive way. Blending into the GOP dilutes our power. Trying to move the elephant with our small numbers is like trying to put a marshmallow into a piggy bank. You will only ruin the marshmallow and why would you want to put it in there in the first place? It's counter productive. Pandora's box is open. It's too late to close it. The damage is irreversible. You will eventually be assimilated into their agenda. Compromising the majority of your positions in order to achieve some minor victory. Ultimately you will only be associating yourselves with their failed policies.
So what to do?
Vote Libertarian in the general election. A marked increase in this parties vote tally will send a clear message to our political enemies at home and to our friends abroad. The Libertarian platform is as close to Ron Paul's platform as we can get right now. It doesn't matter who they nominate although I personally like Christine Smith. Don't waste this opportunity by propping up the GOP.
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2008 Jim Hines, all rights reserved.
Published: Sunday, February 24, 2008
Last modified: Monday, February 25, 2008
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While all of this is mostly true it comes down to the uninformed electorate > or really those that don't bother going to the polls, and those that don't > bother contacting their elected officials to tell them how they feel. GET > INVOLVED!! > > > THE 545 PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE > > This letter is profound.......and so obvious once you read it that I > don't understand why it isn't being shouted from rooftops all over this > country. It is nonpartisan.* > > What do you think? > > *THE 545 PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR **AMERICA**'S WOES * > BY CHARLEY REESE > > > Politicians are the only people in the world who create > problems and then campaign against them. > > Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the > Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits? Have you > ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against > inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes? > > You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president > does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to > vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. > You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. > You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I > don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does. > > One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and > nine Supreme Court Justices - 545 human beings out of the > 300 million - are directly, legally, morally, and > individually responsible for the domestic problems that > plague this country. > > I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because > that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress > delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound > currency to a federally chartered but private central bank. > > I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a > sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no > ability to coerce a senator, a congressman or a president to > do one cotton- picking thing. I don't care if they offer a > politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has > the power to accept or reject it. > > No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's > responsibility to determine how he votes. > > *A CONFIDENCE CONSPIRACY* > > Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing > you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in > this common con regardless of party. > > What separates a politician from a normal human being is an > excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have > the gall of a SPEAKER, who stood up and criticized G.W. BUSH > for creating deficits. > > The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the > Congress to accept it. The Constitution, which is the > supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the > House of Representatives for originating and approving > appropriations and taxes. > > Who is the speaker of the House? She is the leader of the > majority party. > She and fellow Democrats, not the president, can approve any > budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass > it over his veto. > > *REPLACE THE SCOUNDRELS * > > It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million > cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present > facts - of incompetence and irresponsibility. > > I can't think of a single domestic problem, from an unfair > tax code to defense overruns, that is not traceable directly > to those 545 people. > > When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people > exercise power of the federal government, then it must > follow that what exists is what they want to exist. > > If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair. > If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in > the red. If the Marines are in IRAQ, it's because they want > them in IRAQ. > > There are no insoluble government problems. Do not let these > 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire > and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts > and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give > the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. > > Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that > there exist disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," > "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what > they take an oath to do. > > Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and > they alone, have the power. They, and they alone, should be > held accountable by the people who are their bosses - > provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own > employees. We should vote all of them out of office and > clean up their mess. > > A M E N !!!!!
Well, first off, no one, but no one, who intends to vote for Ron Paul would even think of voting for any other Republican (let alone McCain). How is it the case that to vote Libertarian, despite its almost vanishing influence, and to vote for the unknown Christine, is somehow better than to vote for Ron Paul? He has at least some name recognition and a relatively large following (check the numbers along with yours) . To vote Libertarian would be a waste of a vote. What makes anything think that Libertarian policies, although similar to those of Ron Paul, are in any way superiour? For the followers of Ron Paul, who have been dedicated to him, a vote for any Libertarian, no matter how sympathetic to their policy theymight be, would indeed be a betrayal of both policy and their corageous and honest leader, Ron Paul. I used to vote Libertarian -- gave it up as a lost cause a long time ago. Paul as given me some hope, and you suggest that I return to voting Libertarian? The Libertarians have, by setting up an easily marginalzied third party (think Green) really damaged the libertarian (small "l") policies found incorporated in Paul's agenda. Vote Ron Paul
Maybe you would like to explain how you are going to cast a vote for Ron Paul when he is not on the ballot. If you vote on Diebold machines you can't scratch in his name on the touch screen. And if he does not begin to establish a write in campaign (massive effort) your write in for him on a ballot if available won't count.
If you are planning to voter for RP I don't see how you can possibly vote for either Democratic candidate.
So the question remains. What will you do? Stay home? Not vote?
Here's a reality check. A "let's give up and go home to our own group where it's safe" is a call of retreat to join failure.
The real truth is that our entire government, both GOP and DEM, has already been hijacked by special interests. What is most frightening to these same special interests is that we the American People, in defense of our Constitutional government, refuse to stand-down and silently accept the anointed declaration of media proclaimed candidates.
Ron Paul Republicans are not working towards "hijacking the Republican convention" and don't give a flip about what is possible in the eyes of the sheeple. Our task is one of guarding America and its extraordinary Constitution from those who would see it destroyed for empty promises of another dollar in their pockets.
As for bleating that the "rest of the country" is powerless to take back America; well, that sentiment is no more than a reflection of your own unfortunate weakness. Don’t worry about it too much though, as the rest of us are powerful enough to do it without you.
Kudos - voting for the Libertarian candidate makes the most sense. I took the same position in my article "Battle lost, but not the war" [link edited for length]. I just cannot see any other alternative.
I read your article yesterday and drew inspiration for mine from it.
I'm not as qualified as you are, nor do I have the requisite time to offer to the Libertarian party in any substantial fashion. However, I wanted to add my voice to yours in calling for a sane and reasonable near term solution as to handle the very real possiblity that Paul will not be on the ballot in November.
Continuing to legitimize either major party with our votes or our efforts is in my opinion inexcusably poor judgement. How many times do you have to touch fire before you realize it burns?
Thanks for all your substantive efforts to clean up the mess.
I will write-in Ron Paul (I believe I still have paper ballots where I'm at). There is no one else in this election. I have worked hard for this campaign and bending to the above defeatist attitude sound just plain stupid. I'd rather "waste" my vote (or not vote at all) and be able to sleep at night. After this election and we put the next Pupper in Chief up there, I'll have a clear conscience when things go below South in the months to follow.
Hell, I'm not convinced that there will even be an election.
It'll just take a "disaster" of any kind for Bush to do what he is itching to do.
Christine Smith isn't going to cut it. The LP needs to run someone that Ron Paul supporters who don't come from an LP background have heard about before. Why doesn't the LP draft Bob Barr?
If the LP doesn't get someone with national name recognition then Ron Paul supporters will either write Ron's name in, vote Ralph Nader, vote CP, or vote LP. In that case the LP will get a much smaller percentage of the Ron Paul supporter vote than they would have gotten if they had run Bob Barr.
I am not a libertarian in the strict sense as I would never extend personal liberty to permit the SCOTUS to eliminate the civil rights of the unborn. However I am on board in many other respects.
I suggested on another comment section that assuming all else fails that we see if Dr. Paul would be amenable to being drafted for the VP slot on the LP. (This gives him an out.) Then if we all enmass vote LP we would send the two main stream parties the message that we will not be neglected.
I am sure that this will result in getting a Democrat elected as well, but then we can blame the coming depression on them while we continue to grow.
Maybe this is not the best plan, but we stick together or we hang together. IMHO.
For me, who they run is less relevant than getting a substantial number of people to vote for their candidate. The message would be the same as I'm under no delusion that they would win. I'm looking at the basic Libertarian platform. I don't think it's an accident that the other time RP ran it was on the Libertarian ticket. The challenge is to take this existing coalition and transfer it to the Libertarians instead of mindlessly attaching ourselves to the GOP.
As I pointed out in my article http://www.nolanchart.com/article2784.html the Republican nominee is named at the national convention in SEPTEMBER. That means we're going to live through spring and summer before we know the official nominee. McCain is already getting blasted for his sex/lobbyist scandal, imagine what more could be dug up in SEVEN months time.
It doesn’t matter how wonderful a message Dr. Paul has. The fact remains that the masses are asses. People have gotten soft and fat and will generally vote for the candidate that promises more favorable short term solutions. These short term solutions are provided by heavily taxing people that earn more money. This socialistic wealth redistribution is what America wants. They don’t want to work hard and be responsible for themselves. They don’t want asset backed currency. They want their nanny government. If you think you can achieve freedom by convincing a bunch of idiots to vote for freedom in rigged elections, then you have an impossible journey in front of you. Civil disobedience and secession are the true means towards change. If you hate how other people decide to spend your money and take away your freedoms. Stop giving them money.
It should be apparent that I am a Ron Paul supporter. This article is a strategy for what to do if RP is not on the ballot in November. There are several articles from today and yesterday where in RP is acknowledging the very real possibility that he won't get the nomination. He is behind every other candidate in terms of the "official" delegate count. I am a little more than cynical as to the possibility that somehow like Abraham Lincoln so many years ago, RP's supporters will commandeer the convention and turn it over to Ron. But anything is possible. If he is on the ballot then he has my vote.
I agree wholeheartedly. Let whomever the Libertarian candidate might be garner 8-15% of the vote in the general election and it will be a significant win. Even if that candidate is not Ron Paul, there will be no doubt where much of the support originated from.
Don't waste your vote casting it for the lessor of two evils. Voting for either of the preselected candidates from the major parties only insures that nothing will change the next time around.
If Ron Paul is on the ballot in the general election, I will vote for him; if not, the Libertarian candidate will get my vote. If you believe in limited government and that our current government is badly broken, you should do the same.
This is the last straw. You fair weather friends are the very reason Ron is doing so poorly at the moment. Blow in the breeze some more. Go ahead and flop your losers out there and stand your pathetic second hand hero up and it will count for nothing. Our very weakness to NOT stand together behind one leader will be our undoing. As The Ron Paul Revolution dies so dies the last hope for the Liberty we all crave. I'll still be writing in Ron Paul come November regardless of nomination and If you have a shred of dignity left, you will too...
Yes, we will vote Libertarian, that's the right thing to do. We will also keep our eyes open for Ron Paul Republicans or Democrats to support. It will take some time but we'll eventually win.
Libertarians have already embarrased themselves for years and years; and nothing has happened. They are already have the reputation of being the "pot smoking party". This is a terrible idea. The Libertarian party is NOT "as close to Ron Paul's platform as we can get right now". THE CONSTITUTION PARTY IS. If you go along with the idea of this article then only the Constitution Party is the only choice. Ron would never again run under a Libertarian ticket, but perhaps a Constitution ticket. But don't hold you breath.
Comon guys a massive write in vote...How many dems will come on board...Strength in numbers!@ Some web savvy guys can calculate with a good site RP people worked hard through the primary's and we now can really show america how many there are of us in all parties combined....Bring the libertarians to us! Bring the frustrated dems to us! We have our candidate! Don't give up! We threw the tea into the ocean again! Just because the going got a little tought doesn't mean that we have lost the fight!
I don't believe anyone is throwing in the towel. Certianly not me. Every good plan has a contingency. It's pragmatic and productive.
There is a really good thread on the ron paul forums about writing Paul in. http://ronpaulforum.com/showthread.php?t=304100
Briefly the idea was to use absentee ballots to write him in thus not only casting a vote but leaving a paper trail to boot. Read through the thread to see some of the issues surrounding a write in vote. There is more to it than you might think. There are different criteria to be met in each state. If they aren't then the vote simply won't be counted at all. What kind of message will it be if no votes at all are counted indicating our position?
Libertarians not only come closest to Paul's positions but they also have the strongest ballot access. They will have a candidate that we can vote for in November.
The only way I will vote Republican is if it's Ron Paul.
The Constitution party would be more appropriate for people who are attracted a guy like Mike Huckleberry.
As I said, we have our candidate...If you go elsewhere that's your choice...We have the chance to let the repubs know our strength...I say we show it in spades! Write in Ron Paul! They'll get the message!
Posted By: No Name Supplied
Date: 2008-02-24 21:59:36
As I read all these comments, I hear the same fears that our founding forefathers struggled with during the formation of our government. The rivalry and philosophies between Jefferson and Hamilton has taken a couple hundred years and continues to playout into our hearts and minds. Benjamin Franklin was accutely aware that liberty requires brave men and women to stand up for the principles of truth and stand against tyranny.
In law enforcement and especially in the prison industry they call themselves sheep dogs. There is a reason. 98% of all Americans are in what is called "Condition White." Self absorbed, inattentive, selfish, prone to violence, and victimization. The other 2% are awake, and our minds are open to reason and logic. This has been true of many enlightened civilizations and ours is no exception.
There is a Christian hymn I believe the title is "One Moment for each Man and Nation." This hymn was written prior the Civil War and reflects the battle of good and evil in each individual and the nation as a collective. We that are awake must take our stand for truth and liberty, standing in our hearts against tryanny, win or lose.
May the Lord of Light lead us all to truth and freedom in this world and especially into the new earth. Come soon, come soon, so be it.
If this is the scenario, where it's either mCcAIN or Obama/hillary, then it will be impossible for Ron Paul supporters to vote. Period. You can NOT say you're for freedom and the constitution or even against the war and vote for ANY of the other candidates. Impossible.
If this scenario is going down, I'll organize a a project to contact, enlighten and support a BOYCOTT of the elections by Ron Paul conservatives. The number of supporters of this NATIONAL boycott will be published on all web outlets, sent to ALL media, the GOP and anyone else that needs to take notice to the fact that THERE'S NO ONE IN BOTH PARTIES WHO WE CONSIDER ELECTABLE.
This I will do and I also have support to get this organized BIG TIME.
Nobody wants to "turn back the clock" on the GOP. We want to transform the GOP. As far as diluting our numbers, no one wants to keep our numbers the same. We want to educate and emancipate the entire voting population of America, the GOP happens to be the right vehicle at the right time. As to the exciting prospect of taking over a party that has already found their comfortable niche as a permanently marginalized, small, and ineffective fringe group, uh .....thanks but no thanks.
I'm not an expert on 'politica' but I would suggest Ron Paul step away from the GOP (no use beating a dead horse). He has already made 'the point' in congress with years of service and record. And has sparked the need to continue organizing and teaching the public to dialog in matters of small government, the constitution, civil liberties and a non-bellicose foreign policy. Under the rigid two party system. I would suggest he form a party to field candidates in federal/state elections. I think he's already tried the Libertarian Party route with minimal result.
I am with Ron Paul to the end. I too think he should change parties. If for some reason, Ron does drop out. I have the choice to vote for the lesser of four evils, maybe fewer than four or, not vote. The last two ellections were rigged, and this one most likely as well. If my vote, in any way may help to keep out the worst of the two big Dem & Repub evils, then I may choose to add my vote to the least evil. I vote for the person, not the party. That is why Bush did not get my vote in the last two elections. If all of us Paulsters do the same, McCain and Hillary won't be in the White House, this time next year.
The libertarian party is a lost cause as well. Until the purists can pull their heads out of their rear ends and get a more moderate platform, they also have no chance. They don't get that "change" has to come one step at a time. Winning a campaign with "they want to legalize machine guns and heroin" as a counter argument isn't EVER going to win an election, I don't care if they are right or not.
Will I vote libertarian if they are on the ballot and Ron isnt... absolutely... if for no other reason than to get them ballot access in the next election. There really isn't a point in voting for anyone else, I can't stand McCain, Obama, or Clinton. Being a small government, anti-war Republican doesn't leave you with many options.
The real thing we need to do is to win Ron some allies in congress. I think every one should find their closest representitive on PaulCongress.com and support them, whether they are Republicans or libertarians. Its the message that matters.
We need a party we can all get behind and it needs to be strength by sheer numbers. We can take over the constitution party, build it up? as most of us are constitutionalists not libertarians. But it needs to be done across the board. By trying to get us onboard w/ the libertarians, I agree w/ one of the statements above. Libertarian party is associated w/ Liberals etc. When in fact at the very core of the L party might be the constitution. Think about it. When canvassing, I don't think I came across anyone who disagreed w/ the constitution.
Another peg on the board is the now famous Independents. Ralph Nader, & quite possibly Bloomberg & Lou Dobbs are on this ticket . This is not the year to compete w/ well known entities such as these. I know the L's are up in arms but we have to compromise a bit and stay strong or we are toast. I think maybe there are about 8 million die hards. Civil disobedience is the only alternative if we're washed outta the election. Write ins & protests and marches! He's catchin on, I'm tellin ya! :)
Posted By: Christian Prophet
Date: 2008-02-25 10:17:05
We know that McCain is going to lose by a landslide. And we know that whoever is around in the GOP to pick up the pieces will determine the GOP of the future.
We also know the Libertarian Party is intent on self-sabotage by loudly trumpeting positions which make no sense in the minds of the vast majority of the American public.
Now, if the LP were to learn the lesson the Obama campaign offers: Don't glory in advertising your unpopular positions just for the ego-satisfaction of appearing different, but emmphasize those things which almost everyone agrees with, which can REALLY gain votes ... then and only then would the LP be worthy of a second look.
Until I see some hints of grown up maturity from the LP, I'd rather spend my time having dialogue with an open-minded Mitt Romney who I know I can move to more libertarian positions.
In fact, the landslide defeat, once it occurs, is going to influence almost all the GOP to be 1) very self-questioning about where they have been, and 2) very open-minded an open to future shifts in ideas. The GOP will be a beautifully ready field for those libertarians who stay around.
THE ABSENTEE BALLOT THING IS GREAT! You can get all your apathetic friends to go along from the comfort of their own homes. And the paper trail would be reassuring.
L step...I know in my state one as to be registered as a write in candidate and if one writes in a name that is not registered that vote is not counted.... so no message will be sent to the GOP I would have just wasted my vote. Staying at home and not voting will also be a waste of a vote.
Paulitician...I totally agree with your comments.
Dr. Paul has said that he would not run as a 3rd party candidate and I think it will be disrespectful of us to draft him into one if he does not get the R nod. So for those that call those of us that a looking at as many possibilities that may or may not happen in the future as fair weather supporters so be it; but at least listen to what we have to say because much of it has merit. Writing in Dr. Paul's name may feel good; but; when it is not counted and no message has been sent; how will you feel then? Remember! Dr. Paul himself has always said, it isn't him, it is the message. So if he is not on the ballot I hope you will vote for a messenger that is carrying the same message as Dr. Paul. That is what many are trying to figure out. Who is the messenger on the general ballot that is carrying Dr. Paul's message?
Given that much of our problem is the seemingly 2 party system we all should vote for the candate of a small party. I have made a contingency plan before reading this and in that plan I will vote for Christine Smith. (I thought Christine already had the Libertarian nod someone please correct me if I am wrong) IF and ONLY IF Ron Paul is not on the ballot. If I vote Libertarian then hopefully I will help a small party out.
But RP supporters need to be united on whom they support IF and ONLY IF Ron Paul is not on the ballot. This is something we need to do collectively because only in the company of other voices will our own voice be heard. We must speak united, we must speak loudly and we must speak often.
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2008-02-25 19:42:22
Joining a 3rd party removes the only value that being a member of a party really conveys...the power to select candidates.
I have nothing against 3rd parties or people who join them. I will just never let them go away thinking they are doing anything but playing in a sandbox with their friends, preaching to the choir, promoting easy non-participation and shying away from testing their ideals in the marketplace of ideas. Any "power" imagined by leaving the GOP and Democratic party in the hands of enemies is a sad, sad illusion.
Just because your sandbox is bigger, doesn't make it better or any more relevant.
This is like people who only where clothes with a label on them, like Polo or Calvin Klein. If I find a shirt that fits better and cost less and is made right here in America I don't care if has a "popular" label on it.
I like Ron Pauls political positions not main stream Republicanism. Libertarians current platform is miles closer to Paul than are the Republicans. If you support Ron Paul why would you support the Republicans?
Write-in Ron Paul on the November ballot if he doesn't get the Republican Nomination. He doesn't have to run as an Independent. We can still vote for him.
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2008 Jim Hines, all rights reserved.