Topic: Ron Paul
Ron Paul & Swiss Cheese The perceived threat of Islamic fundamentalism is keeping many voters from considering Ron Paul for president. That perception is based on the official story of 9-11, the swiss cheese of explanations. Pointing out the holes is easy, getting people to look is not, but that is the key to widespread acceptance of his message.by James Goodfellow
(libertarian)
Friday, February 15, 2008
I participated in my precinct Republican Party caucus last weekend. I am happy to announce that Ron Paul won our county. While I was there, I had the opportunity to speak with several people about their candidate of choice. The one position that McCain, Huckabee, et al. supporters completely reject from Ron Paul, and one I couldn't immediately counter in casual conversation, was the threat of Islamic terrorism.
Oh I tried the old standbys: the reason there are so many terrorists now is directly related to the number of middle eastern folks coming home to find their families blown to little bits around the front yard: put yourself it their shoes: the west has been meddling in the middle east for 2,000+ years, etc. None of it worked; I needed hard facts.
The one common thread I was able to recognize was that they all had swallowed the 9-11 kool-aid. That is, they had bought the "official" story of that fateful day hook, line & sinker, and were convinced it was us vs them. Now, I don't claim to know what happened, but I have a pretty good idea of what didn't, and that is the "official" story. There is simply no way that version of what happened is anywhere near the truth; there are too many blaring holes in that fairy tale. Here are but a few:
In light of the preceding links, I think it's safe to say that there is reasonable doubt that Islamic terrorist are responsible for the 9-11 attacks. As I said earlier, I have no idea who is responsible, but it makes no more sense to accuse Iraqis "because they hate our freedoms" than it does to accuse say French Canadians, because we don't, as a nation, support their independence efforts from the rest of Canada.
I say this only to ask if it is prudent to lash out at a politically charged patsy to the tune of $275,000,000 per day, with the inevitable death & destruction on both sides, when it is quite uncertain just who it is we should retaliate against.
I realize Ron Paul won't touch that political third rail, with good reason, but that is the key to winning over a large percentage of the huge "protect me from the terrorists" crowd. The people I spoke with are good citizens. They feel a moral obligation to retaliate. They want justice. So do I. Where we differ, is the target of our vengeance. Get enough of them to question the official fairy tale and just maybe they'll reconsider their support for this war and turn the tide of this election.
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Please don't advertise the conspiracy theory and Ron Paul together. Dr. Paul's message is powerful on it's own. Please don't cloud it with the conspiracy.
Let's talk 911 conspiracy, something I've been researching for the last five years. Let's assume there was a conspiracy, that Osama Bin Laden doesn't actually exist, or is a US agent, and that Al Quaida is a complete fabrication. Fair enough.
If this is so, and I'm willing, for the sake of argument to agree that it is, that must also mean that the US government, the Egyptian goverment, the Saudi secret police, the Israeli government, Scotland Yard, the Italian and Russian governments, and Hezbollah are all secretly in cahoots in maintaining this conspiracy, as they all have stated that Osama Bin Laden comitted this crime. Perhaps the elites in the US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran, Israel, China, North Korea, and about a hundred other countries are secretly involved in a massive scam to perpetrate one-world government against the masses of the world.
However, if this is so, then you must also admit that the entire Iraq war is a sham. Perhaps there was never a war at all. Perhaps the Hussein government and the Bush government agreed on this farce beforehand, and Saddam is hanging out with a bunch of elites in Davos while an enormous movie set perpetrates the fraud that our military is in Iraq fighting Islamic fundamentalists, who do not actually exist.
Folks, you cannot have it both ways. 911 Conspiracy? Fine, then follow it to it's logical conclusion. Think about what a conspiracy this large would entail. If you still believe it, great. Then what makes you think the Iraq war is any more authentic?
When I first saw the building collapses on 9/11 and I realized it wasn't a science fiction movie, I thought, the building didn't have a steel structure , it was made out of small old bricks or something like that. Then I went to France to visit my family. My father and his senior citizen crowd were saying that it was a conspiracy. I didn't believe them and thought they had heard anti-american propaganda on TV. Then I worked in South Africa for 3 years and people were telling me similar stuff as I had heard in France and I again thought it was anti american propaganda. I then came back to Los Angeles and my roomate was on the internet and told us to look at this site she was watching, called 911 mystery , the Demolition. The site was describing the 9/11 from a scientific view point. Different demolition experts were interviewed,
architects, physicist, engineer, explosive expert ,people working with metal etc. Well, the structure of the towers were built like a metal metal grid to withstand airplane coming into it. The site showed a similar built building which had a world war 2 plane crash into it. The building only had a hole where the airplane hit.
Anyway all the experts interviewed said it was absolutely impossible for all the 3 buildings and more so the 3rd one ( which only fell from the rubles coming from the other 2 buildings) to almost free fall from an airplane crash. It should have had a big hole in it. Also the site shows some home video footage where you can see small explosions at different hights on the corner of the building before it collapsed. Anyway at the end of the video I and those who were whatching it with me were 1000% convinced there was more than just the airplanes that collapsed the building.
The reason I had never believed it before was because the motive couldn't exist , it was impossible, too unbelievable. At first my own senses couldn't quite make out, how could the buildings free fall. In the same way that you know a feather can't fall faster than a canonball. In order to make it real, I had created a old brick building in my head. but when looking at scientific facts, it finally made sense ,it couldn't be denied. The unbelievablelity of this whole thing is definitly its best protection. Ron paul has a neutral attitude on the 9/11 event. he said, he never saw any written evidences but it should be investigated further. I think it is wise for him to stay at that, he has enough on his plate as it is.
Interesting links, will have to check them out -- only read the article about the Put-options so far. One thing is definitely true, we need another investigation. Especially when you consider how much more money was spent on the Clinton/Lewinksy scandal then in the 9/11 Commission Report. $40 Million for Presidential Infidelidy? Give me a break. Not to mention, it would help if there were not obvious conflicts of interests here in this so-called "report".
There may or many not have been actual collusion or conspiracy within factions of our government to aid and abet the terrorists on Sept 11th; I haven't investigated the swiss cheese personally and will not give an opinion on that. Irregardless of the potential for involvement in the act itself there was certainly preventitive and follow-up ineptitude, power and monetary profiteering, and a conspiracy to cover up governmental actions as a result.
One of the keys to investigating criminal activity is always the pursuit of determination of a motive. While there may or may not have been a motive for someone to particpate in the 9/11 activities, there certainly were motives for those in power to react in certain ways, and the motive behind those reactions are not at all transparent. For this reason alone I feel the need to question and evaluate anything that my government tries to sell me, I just wish others would as well.
I say these "republicans" are love Saudi Arabia first and America 2nd. Where is their outrage against the Saudis? There isnt any. Because they want to protect Saudis more than Americans loosing their lives in Iraq.
Question for the writer of this article? Have you swallowed the Oklahoma City Bombing kool-aid? Do you think Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols acted by themselves?
No connection to Islamic Radicals in the southern Phillipines? No connection to Iraqi Intelligence?
How convenient that Clinton pinned it on a couple White racist ex-Army gun nuts.
The hypocrisy of some libertarian conspiratorialists. They're all too quick to believe that 9/11 was an "inside job." Yet they remain silent on overwhelming evidence that McVeigh and Nichols acted as pawns of Radical Muslims tied to Saddam Hussein and Iraqi Intelligence.
Comments like these linked to Ron Paul are one big reason why Paul can't possibly succeed on a large scale. I can't understand why even the conspiracy buffs continue to bring up things that have been so easily debunked. I decided to investigate myself a while back, and did my best to begin my investigation with an open mind. After seeing loose change, and then screw loose change, I'm convinced the conspiracy theorists are zealots who ignore facts that counter their arguments, and attack and ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with them.
Eric Dondero wrote, "Yet they remain silent on overwhelming evidence that McVeigh and Nichols acted as pawns of Radical Muslims tied to Saddam Hussein and Iraqi Intelligence."
Personally, I think there is enough kool-aid to go around. Although, it would be interesting to see this overwhelming evidence.
Official Story
"Within days after the bombing, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were both arrested for their roles in the bombing. Investigators determined that McVeigh and Nichols were sympathizers of an anti-government militia movement and that their motive was to avenge the government's handling of the Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents (the bombing occurred on the anniversary of the Waco incident)." - Wiki
The Conspiracy
"We have found no conclusive evidence of a foreign connection, but there remain questions that need to be answered before this final chapter can justifiably be closed. This investigation determined that many pieces of so-called evidence backing various theories of a foreign involvement were not based in fact. In some instances, our own research is inconclusive. Specifically, Hussaini and Strassmeir, as well as the Yousef phone calls, needed more investigatory attention. The Subcommittee investigators are dismayed that there remains a lack of willingness by the Department of Justice and others to examine certain legitimate issues. The overall assessment is inconclusive on the varied theories."
Note: They did present an argument for foreign terrorist involvement, including the conclusion about the "lack of willingness" of the Justice Department. Entire report below.
Why aren't you guys in government, yet? Shouldn't we focus on what's most important for America? I don't see how post-debating something we have little control over, at the moment, forwards the ideas of Freedom and the Constitution.
Posted By: James Goodfellow
Date: 2008-02-16 22:37:56
In reply to Eric's reply, as I stated in the article, I have no idea who is responsible for the attacks. I only know that the official story stinks. If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, OK. Personally, attacking foreign countries, murdering untold innocents, and driving our own country into bankrupcy on a hunch, is way more than I'm comfortable supporting. I'm guessing most folks feel that way.
The OKC bombing official story stinks too, although not quite as bad as 9-11. Again, like most of us, I only know that a building got bombed, and innocents where killed; I have no information on exactly how it went down. Maybe I'll put a list of links together for another article, and folks can decide for themselves if the fedes were lying.
Legitimate questions are often thrown away in the "The Conspiracy" bin and when you check some conspiracy sites on Google, you wonder for whom they really working for.
But when Bush said on tape, that he saw the first plane hit the tower the morning of 9/11, well, he lied.
Just google "bush saw first plane"
This lie could mean many things, it can be alcohol, drugs or who knows what? Still, he lied and what do you expect from liars?
The author assumes he needed proof to counter these peoples arguments and he didn't. What he needed to remind them was that FEAR is the objective of the muslim terrorist threat and thus perpetual war. After all, if they vote McCain, they are voting for the Iraq war in perpetuity. Do they want that??? If Fear is the motivator a few good quotes from our founding fathers solves that.
If it doesn't then facts wouldn't have worked either, and why??? BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THAT THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS WERE TRAITORS. They would have to do something about it and they don't want to risk their comfy lives for principle. To many, knowing their President and VP are traitors is more scary than terrorists from another country, so they prefer the story given.
With people like that there is nothing you can do and unfortunately they become traitors as well and why??? BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER ATTACK FOR MARTIAL LAW TO BE INSTITUTED AND FINAL DEMISE OF OUR LIBERTIES ENSURED. Thus, their refusal to open their minds and look at EVEN THE SUPERFICIAL evidence which negates the official story, is an act of treason given the millions of AMERICANS that could die in the next one be it a nuke or bioweapon. I am opting for the bioweapon and forced vaccination which will ensure the population gets the bug surrepticiously and millions will die.
How do I know this? I don't, but remember, the Bush people at the CDC and the Rockerfeller (Mr. globalist) people funded a trip to greenland to get a frozen virus sample of the Spanish flu that killed millions in Europe AFTER THE EUROPEANS WERE INNOCULATED WITH A VACCINE. Then, remember??? They announced that a sample of the living virus was lost or stolen..... and they also wrote about doing this in their pax americana paper written by Cheney's New American Century think tank.
I read, so I know about all of this and that is why Europe believes 9-11 was a conspiracy..... THEY GOT THE UNEDITED COPIES OF THE VIDEOS THAT WERE SHOT AND WE DID NOT. They saw wthe explosions like I did live and then I never saw them again on US TV. But Europeans did see those explosions. I have relatives who live over there and it was on their nightly news replayed for a whole week.
If you want to see what they saw.... get the video
The man who organised the disaster of the 11th Sept 2001 said clearly: he opposed infidel American troops on sacred Arabian soil. No troops in Arabia, no attack.
Posted By: James Goodfellow
Date: 2008-02-19 10:47:00
To Pepper. Your position is understandable. I too had considered it. My favorite quote in that regard is:
Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all... -- Michael Rivero
The problem with it is, that no action is then possible, and no change can come. I prefer to see the problem as shining a light on a subject they unconsciously ignore, and hoping curiosity overcomes their fear just enough for them to explore further.
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