Topic: Taxation
Which Part of Ron Paul's "Eliminate the IRS" Didn't You Understand? This core idea of Ron Paul's ALONE should cause him to win in a landslide and be thrust into the office of President by public acclaim. In this lament, the author vents what should be a universal frustration.by creator
(libertarian)
Friday, February 29, 2008
Every once in a while, my brain goes on overload with a level of incredulity, a question about the mysteries of the human mind. My specific amazement today is this: How could any one of you out there not want to eliminate the Internal Revenue Service?
Maybe it's propaganda, maybe it's group-think, I just can't figure this one out. Dr. Ron Paul says that eliminating the income tax is his plan, his purpose. He has stated as much, clearly and plainly, on national television. Don't you recall him telling Jay Leno that he wants to eliminate the income tax and replace it with NOTHING?
"Well, I lean towards a flat tax but I wanna make it real flat, like zero."
Paul's statement was followed by cheers, laughter and applause. You won't hear the like from John McCain, Mike Huckabee, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama, oh noooo, they all want bigger, better, more government. And so I ask again, America, which part of "Let's eliminate the IRS" didn't you understand? Have you become your own worst enemy?
OK, I'll grant that there may be some people who might resist this idea. There is, I suppose, a veritable army of folk that are either directly or indirectly sucking at the public teat. They would most notably be:
IRS Employees
Accountants and Tax Preparers
Federal Prosecutors
Yes, there is an entire cluster of parasites who perform absolutely no beneficial function in the world and society, who make no positive contribution to life, and who are prepared to defend the obscene communist concept of a tax on income because of their own vested interest. If I've stepped on YOUR toes, good on me! It's about time you woke up to the utterly bankrupt worthlessness of your existence! To you all I say, grow up, get a job, and do something productive with your lives!
But what about the rest of you? Even without that list of leeches, considerably more than half the country should still be chomping at the bit to get this done! Hello!?!? Are you out there?
Oh, that's right; there may be a few more sponges involved:
"Tax Credit" Recipients
Those of you in this category may be performing SOME work, some true service to society. But what makes you think that you deserve to have the federal government hold a gun to your neighbor's head, steal his money, and give some of it to you in the form of a "tax credit?"
I'm left bemused and bewildered, because there should still be enough of us remaining who would be literally dancing in the streets at the prospect of demolishing the IRS gestapo, that monster from the pit of hell itself that has destroyed countless lives and reduced all too many honest working men to a position of cowering in fear.
Is it that you don't think Ron Paul could do it, that he wouldn't succeed in eliminating the tax? So, just give up on the idea -- not realistic, won't happen, don't even bother to talk about it or to try? Come on now, wouldn't it be better to try than to just throw in the towel in advance?
Is it that you've become so brainwashed as to think that the government NEEDS all that money? Please, people, think! What will you do when the government discovers that it needs ALL of your money? It will be too late then. Maybe it's already too late.
And so I'll ask one last time: Which part of Ron Paul's "Eliminate the IRS" didn't you understand? Oh, how I wish this weren't a rhetorical question!
The views expressed in this
article are those of creator only and do not represent
the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates. creator is
solely responsible for the contents of this article and is not an
employee or otherwise affiliated with Nolan Chart, LLC in his/her role as a columnist.
Libertarian........It's pretty hard to figure, isn't it ??
We're dealing with a mass of citizens who have been successfully brainwashed, maybe to the point of no return. I hope I'm wrong, but..................?????
I'm no "rocket scientist", and I absolutely get it.
If the majority of the American people are not smarter than I am....we're in trouble.
I think that most people just can't figure out how the government is going to pay for things if there is no income tax.
Ron has said that the money would come from savings, produced by cutting back on wasteful spending, yet people need to see it in black and white before they can actually figure that out in their heads and see that it could work. To many it's like saying let's all just quit our jobs and the money will come from not spending so much. HMMM, that's how I finally figured out how to semi-retire.
Maybe a simple easy to read graph / chart would be a good idea so people can comprehend the concept.
I understand. I am on-board. I can manage to live my life without the IRS; Happily!! I have given Dr. Paul campaign contributions. I have called my neighborhood, however without the Media support nobody believes what I am talking about...I could have 3 arms from and I must be crazy!
I think you're simplifying. Eliminating the IRS only works if you are also doing that in conjunction with slashing the government's size and scope by as much as 80%.
While this sounds excellent to most libertarians, you must understand that it will affect huge numbers of people who either rely directly on the government for employment, or whose primary employment is with a company that relies on government contracts and the size of government.
I don't think the case can be made that if we eliminate the IRS that we don't have to get rid of a lot of other stuff ... and I think the problem is most people would happily get RID of the IRS but not "the other stuff".
Again, assuming everyone is too stupid to get it only means that when people read your words, they automatically stop listening to you. When you decide that most of the people in the country are "too brainwashed" and "too stupid" to understand a graph, you've taken up the idea that you know what's better for this country than most people.
There was a Mexican national who immigrated legally to the U.S. and bought a ranch. He wandered into the bank and told a bank VP friend of mine that Americans are the strangest people in the world. When asked why, he replied that the whole world knows that government is bad, but Americans think government is good! Problem answered.
The proof will be in the pudding, won't it ?? We'll see how smart the American people are after the "dust settles", my friend. I hope you're right...........otherwise I lose right along with you. Stupid and apathetic are synonymous. Apathetic people do stupid things
DX10................point made. Mexican and other foreigners are apparently smarter than we are.
I rest my case.
Logic will not win the Revolution, Logical Premise.
If logic were to prevail, we wouldn't be in this disaterous mess today.
Can you tell me why it wasn't picked up by Google?
We are in the middle of what Dave Champion likes to call the "Annual Tax Terrorism Season." My conspiracy bones want to believe that there's a reason this article was skipped by Google, and in the past when that has happened I've usually been able to spot a reason... but not this time, at least not so far...
Posted By: RP Freedom Rider
Date: 2008-02-29 18:22:34
I too, find it amazing that people wouldn't jump at eliminating the IRS...
I ask people and they say... but what about all the services our tax dollars pay for? Uhhh what services?
Please point to even the most basic infrastructure maintenance that is financed through our personal income tax. Why is it folks will believe they can receive more without paying for it directly, don't hold our elected officials accountable when they don't get what is promised and then say oh no, we can't give it up, when an alternative is proposed.
The follow on question is... point to one government agency that you would model as an example of excellence, efficiency and productivity.
creator, you've hit on a couple of key factors in the inability to gain mass acceptance of the idea of just doing away with income taxes and replacing it with nothing.
1. You have all the cottage industries you began to list. From the IRS employees to financial planners, tax attorneys, tax preparation services and software companies, auditors, etc.
2. You have the many government programs who rely on the tax system to maintain larger federal government. I'm not sure where Logical got the 80% figure but Dr. Paul has mentioned 50% reduction would create a government small enough to be funded without an income tax. There are too many bureaucracies and cottage industries to them that don't want to go away.
3. The real key is group think! People are reactionary to the idea of eliminating it and replacing it with nothing since two things they can count on are death and taxes. Life experience for nearly all of us (unless you were born before 1913 or at least before 1930s) equates taxes to income taxes. Impossible in their minds so they move on. Those who do stop long enough to listen roll their eyes at the massive government cuts necessary and move on. Group think drives these reactions. It is not stupidity, it's simply a matter of a belief it cannot be. For those of us with the conviction it can be we cannot understand since conviction trumps belief.
I spent many years and a Congressional campaign (in '94) working to edcuate people on eliminating the IRS and repealing the 16th Amendment with a transitionary program prior to cutting spending. Still there was reactionary fear. To hear someone boldly proclaim it can be ended and replaced with nothing is more than most are ready for so the education must continue in earnest.
Forces are strong to maintain the system. Aside from those you mention the very monetary system with the Fed relies on the hidden nature of an income tax (one reason we got the 16th and then the Fed. Reserve Act in 1913). Also, there is pure controlling power of our government. Manipulation of the tax code is a great way to control our daily lives. An incentive here, tax break there and we jump through hoops to "take advantage" of them.
Geesh, didn't mean to write a whole new article but this is an extremely passionate area for me as I've been in the trenches on it for nearly two decades. The main thing we must remember, people aren't stupid...when it comes to the IRS they are scared and that is tough to overcome. Keep up these types of articles, it all helps whittle away the fear and expose the truth, it can be done. Ahhh, Truth Realm, how fitting.
It is scary to most to consider that the government can still function without their income tax dollars. Where would they get their handouts? How would they live without the government telling them every little detail of their life and how to live it?
I was handing out campaign fliers one day for Ron Paul and met this one fat kid sitting in a car at the grocery store. He was probably about 20 or so. I handed him a flier and said it was for Ron Paul. He said,
I worked for the IRS. I didn't say services. I said that the tax income funds things that give people their jobs.
The ugly truth is that the IRS needs to go from one type of statist viewpoint, that of utiliatarian government. Income tax organs will ALWAYS be tyrannical and inefficient and the prime nexus of corruption, and dear God, you people have no idea how corrupt some of the IRS is.
I see this recurring theme that people seem to think the income tax is needed to provide the services that citizens expect from thier government. In response to this I draw your attention to the Grace Commission.
for some reason only part of my post came through. maybe the link I included was interpreted as spam (I can appreciate vigilance when it comes to the constitution and spam.) Just google "grace commission" you'll find the report. read the whole thing but pay particular attention to the part that says:
Resistance to additional income taxes would be even more widespread if people were aware that:
One-third of all their taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency in the Federal Government as we identified in our survey.
Another one-third of all their taxes escapes collection from others as the underground economy blossoms in direct proportion to tax increases and places even more pressure on law abiding taxpayers, promoting still more underground economy-a vicious cycle that must be broken.
With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.
I believe a large percentage is people believe the propaganda:
'We cannot exist without income tax. We need government to take our money and then give a small portion of it back to us for the services we need. When we get our refunds, we feel like we are getting something from the government. Besides, the country would cave in and go completely bankrupt without us giving the government 1/3 of our wages. Therefore, it is a necessary evil and abolishing the IRS could never happen; we would be much worse off...'
The reality is that although there is no tax legally forcing non-corporation employees to file (those not receiving profit or gain from their income), people DO understand that the IRS can take everything you own -- garnish wages, leaving you with $150 a week to live on; deplete your bank account; take away your home and property -- if you choose to resist. So there is a large and REAL mindset of fear that exists.
If you are familiar with the classic "1984" by George Orwell, you understand how fear and propaganda controls people.
Now, which part of Ron Paul's "Eliminate the IRS" did I not understand? I understand every bit of it. But with the fear mindset and the IRS acting like tyrannical criminals in obeyance of no existing law, people just can't wrap their minds around Ron Paul's simple plan of downsizing deadweight government agencies and pulling out of wars to get our budget back to where it was just 10 years ago -- and to where we wouldn't need the monies taken from the working people.
I have no answer to reversing this fear mindset, except for do everything you can to get Ron Paul elected...
I make my living and provide for my family by working for a company and helping them pay the legally lowest amount of tax possible.
I would HAPPILY trade that skill and renumeration for an end to the IRS and it's hydra-headed friends. I'm sure I can retrain to do something that is actually useful -- I'm only 50 years old.
Ron Paul speaks truth; Americans don't want to hear it and most hope that if they ignore his words that all this bad stuff will go away. I say that even if the truth hurts, the sooner we embrace it, the sooner the pain will be over. I hope that Ron's spark will light the fires of a revolution, for it is a revolution that we need now. Nothing less will do. I only hope it doesn't come to bloodshed.
You people need to learn the meaning of the word Propaganda. It means simply the spread of a particular thought, idea or viewpoint through written or spoken word.
Which means all of this posted here is "propaganda" The website itself is "Propaganda".
Anyway, So no IRS. Gone.
The money has to originate from someplace, in order for the government to have it. Where does it come from?
Ian, here's what you need to know about where the money originates from:
Beardsley Ruml, advisor to President Herbert Hoover ([link edited for length]) and chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, published a paper in 1946 plainly stating that income taxes are NOT needed to run the Federal government. A government that has the power to borrow money into existence through the use of central banking simply inflates that "money" out of thin air. Ruml's paper makes clear what the REAL reasons for income taxation are - simply stated, government control of society.
Furthermore, the federal government gains vast revenues from imposts and excise taxes to the extent that those sources supply more than enough for proper operation of legitimate government function.
Finally, not a dime of federal income tax pays for any goods or services from government; it all goes to pay interest on the federal debt. Please see: [link edited for length]
I hope that helps you understand that the IRS is unneeded, obsolete, irrelevant (other than as a means of fearmongering social control) and should be abolished.
Ian, Dr. Paul's comment to Jay Leno, quoted in this article, refers to the so-called "income tax." Imposts and excises are not "income taxes."
If you want to know Ron Paul's opinion on a wider variety of tax issues, I'd suggest that you visit the "Ron Paul Library" website where you can find many of his writings on taxation. Here is a link for your convenience: [link edited for length]
Now, I have a question for you. Imagine that 25% or 50% of GOVERNMENT were gone... How would that affect your life? Would you be able to survive on less government? If not, Why?
In essence, what Dr. Paul is saying is that we could certainly survive, and more likely thrive, with a small fraction of the government that we have now. A federal government trimmed back to its constitutional limits would probably be something like 25% or less of the government that we have now, with far more funds from legal and legitimate taxes than it would ever need.
Want to comment on this
article? Leave your comment here. Your email address is
required to track your comment. However, we will neither
publish your email address nor distribute it to other
organizations or persons. The only reason we might use
it would be if we needed to contact you regarding your
comment. All comments are subject to our
terms of use policy.
"