Topic: Presidential Campaign 2008
Did Ron Paul Supporters In West Virginia Really Throw Their Support To Huckabee? Apparently they did...and they got Dr. Paul three more pledged delegates for their effortsby Walt Thiessen
(Libertarian)
Tuesday, February 5, 2008
According to a Paul campaign press release, Paul's delegate count increased by three due to a little backroom shake-and-bake. After Paul was eliminated from consideration during the first round of balloting at today's West Virginia convention, Huckabee's team struck a deal with Paul supporters...vote for our guy, and we'll throw you three delegates.
It's a smart way to try to stay in the race. Mitt Romney was the expected winner in West Virginia, and indeed he achieved 41% of the vote on the first ballot. Dr. Paul came in 4th with 10%. But then the McCain folks wanted to stop Romney from "rotting out" in the next ballot and talked with the Huckabee folks about swapping votes. McCain had run third to Huckabee's second in the first round. Widespread reports suggested that McCain called his supporters and asked them to vote for Huckabee, in order to deny the delegates to Romney.
The Paul people decided this was an opportunity to strike, and they also offered to throw some support Huckabee's way, in return for three delegates. The Huckabee camp accepted, and he won on the second ballot with 51.5% of the votes.
West Virginia is a winner-take-all state, so this is a savvy move by the Paul people. After all, what did they have to lose? If Huckabee keeps his promise, he'll take home 15 delegates, and Paul pockets 3.
If the McCain folks didn't look for a similar deal, then they just got out-snookered. What a joke that will be on them, if it's true!
If nothing else, this proves that Paul has the political savvy to get the job done, should the Republicans wake up at the last moment and decide that McCain isn't really their guy after all.
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2008 Walt Thiessen, all rights reserved.
Published: Tuesday, February 5, 2008
Last modified: Wednesday, February 6, 2008
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You know what I wish? Even thought it's TOTALLY against Statist thought, I wish the President was elected ONLY by the population through blind balloting.
You wouldn't even see a campaign, you'd go to vote and there'd be this list of platform positions, and you choose one. The canidate they represented would have to hold to all of the positions or immediately be impeached and replaced.
I understand your happiness about the back-room wheeling that gave you more delegates, and the laughter you have for the ineptitude of the McCain fraud machine campaign, but still...it doesn't seem honest somehow.
Posted By: Walt Thiessen
Date: 2008-02-05 16:56:13
One thing that you really learn when you're a libertarian, Logical Premise, is exactly how corrupt the system really is. I'm glad your eyes are beginning to open.
In a proper statist government, such things wouldn't happen. I knew it happened. I didn't expect someone as principled as Dr. Paul or Huckabee to engage in such practices.
Adulerated, corrupted crap, which can't even get the big government stuff right.
I'm working on an article of my criticism of what we've done with the government since the Great Depression, from a statist viewpoint, but the sum of it is - governent should be extended into all things -- the Constitution limits it to only some areas -- it should expand where it can and not where it shouldn't and if the people are clearly unserved by government expansion, then the government should not expand.
Statism is SUPPOSED to be about good governance. If the government expansion equals hurting the nation, then it's not good governance. I'm aware many people equate statism to totaltitarianism , but that's about as ignorant as saying Libertarians are anarchists.
Why would McCain care about couple delegates, the most important thing was for him that Romney would loose. Nice job for Ron Paul convention members helping war hawk class warfare guy on his roll on to White House. "There will be more wars" as McCain said it.
"If the McCain folks didn't look for a similar deal, then they just got out-snookered. What a joke that will be on them, if it's true!"
McCain has already over 100 delegates, why would he care about couple more. The most important thing for him was to prevent Romney from winning. Nice job in helping this war hawk class warfare guy on his roll to the Republican nomination...
Logical Premise,
(That title has always confused me, since Premises are generally true or false and arguments are logical or illogical, but whatever.)
I sympathize with your opinion this time. But it has been back room deals for eons. Just this once I wish only the military could vote.
Posted By: Walt Thiessen
Date: 2008-02-05 17:29:39
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say "maybe" LP, but from where I'm sitting, this government has already gotten so big, and our liberties have dwindled so severely, that the distinction between big government and totalitarian government is beginning to blur.
Romney did the same thing in Wyoming with Thompson and McCain supporters, and remember Louisiana? All the rest ganging up to derail Paul by voting for Ronald Reagan! It's about time Ron's people started punching back.
The real mystery is what the hell Paul plans to do with the 100 or so delegates he ends up with at the end of it all. They don't give out blue ribbons for coming in 4th. The best he can hope for is probably a mediocre speaking slot at the convention, and that only with a pre-approved speech.
And Billy, in LA they didn't actually vote for Reagan, they voted for the 'Reagan Ticket' which was a slate of candidates who essentially took Reagan as their mascot.
There is nothing corrupt or wrong about what happened in West Virginia. This is how conventions work. If nobody gets a majority in the first round then deals are made so that one candidate can get a majority. Paul supporters had to give their support to someone else anyway so they opted to support the candidate that offered something in return. Whose support did Romney think he was going to get after smirking and acting disrepectful while other candidates talk at the debates? He's been running attack ads like crazy and then wonders why all the other campaigns don't like him? It's called respect Mr. Romney. Show a little more and you might get some in return. If you and the media want to act like you're one of two men left in this race that's fine, but don't whine when people decide to show you how wrong you are.
As a Ron Paul delegate in WV who happily voted for Huckabee, whose supporters were extremely respectful and dignified individuals, when Dr. Paul was no longer an option for us, I'd like to say that there was nothing shady or underhanded about this. Huckabee gave a great speech this morning and picked up a lot of uncommitted delegates. Mitt Romney thought he had this state in the bag with his "in" with the county executive committee delegates here, who got automatic votes, but boy did he have another thing coming when pretty much every other (at-large, elected by the voters) delegate voted for Huckabee! :)
We thank the Huckabee supporters for their desire to work together with us to do what's best for both of our candidates, and we applaud their willingness to do so in a way that was never disrespectful towards *ANY* candidate in the WV GOP Convention process.
We are in the real world of politics. Life is wheeling and dealing now no one here is naive enough to think that even if Ron Paul got the Nomination and was elected things would be as his platform would want. He would have to wheel and deal and get Congressmen, Senators all who are politicians to tow his line. His chances of 100% success isn't going to be possible. I would even take 10% so grow up and stop suddenly pretending we have a saint. I don't want a saint I want an honest man dealing with intelligence and clarity, guided by his principles and the constitution making the best choices possible given the circumstances.
Its a whacky world in the dog and pony show we call the primaries. Nothing shady about trading a few delegates here and there, it is within the Republican Party. One political party out of many. I agree Abe, kudos to mdh and the WV delegates who saw a chance to turn a loss into a win! Nice write up Walt, thanks for bringing the word to the Chart!
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2008 Walt Thiessen, all rights reserved.