Topic: Presidential Campaign 2008
On the Ron Paul campaign : an open question What does it mean if Dr. Paul loses?by Logical Premise
(Statist)
Thursday, January 24, 2008
I've been reading Libertarian articles all night. I'm noticing some common themes, but for the moment I have only a question and something to think about.
What does it mean if Dr. Paul loses this election?
There are several stages of that happening, of course, but let us assume that Dr. Paul can lose in two ways.
He can fail to obtain the Republican Party nomination and quit the race entirely
He can fail to win the presidential nomination, either as the Republican canidate or on his own third party ticket.
Losing either way, does it mean the electorate doesn't support his policies?
I'll be frank: 65% of America doesn't vote or care, and the rest have an issue that drives them, be it abortion or church prayer or racism or immigration or dildo laws or what have you. The people who don't care don't matter. If Dr. Paul can bring in large numbers of people who traditionally don't care into this process, then his loss can only mean that his ideas are right, and a majority of the people don't agree.
But what if Dr. Paul simply fails by a large amount? What if he does only get that predicted 8% to 15% of the vote?
Does that make his policy wrong? Does it mean that Libertarianism as an ideal is as laughable as a lead balloon?
I think that a lot of Dr. Paul's supporters will claim that they were cheated, or voter fraud, or that the MSM wrecked the campaign, or what have you. They will accept anything except the idea that most people find their ideas alien, frightening, naive, and almost idealistically childish.
That isn't to say they are wrong. I think every political stance has alien, frightening, naive or childish ideas. But Libertarians take a stance that is diametrically opposed to government, and that means they challenge everything.
If Dr. Paul is narrowly defeated , then I might actually believe that it was fraud or MSM crap that defeated him. But if he loses by a huge margin and is soundly shown to be the last place finisher after Super Tuesday, Libertarians need to start rethinking some of their positions and admit that what Dr. Paul stands for and what you believe in is NOT what most American's think America is about.
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Published: Thursday, January 24, 2008
Last modified: Thursday, January 24, 2008
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What it means is that libertarians Ron Paul supporters would rather have a candidate that refuses to play politics and goes unelected, rather than a candidate that will actually get elected. Even if Ron Paul was to be elected, half of his promises wouldn't happen. Look at Bush. Ron Paul is not running for king of America. If we want real change towards libertarianism we need to elect more libertarian officials at the local level. Ron Paul is a great guy, but he wouldn't win the governor's race in Texas either.
You should factor in: Ron Paul does not get from Big Media the same attention the other candidates get. You know..all that free publicity. That reconsideration of issues exposed only to a few...Something sounds wrong or faulty with your reasoning. I honestly think you are wrong.
your article sounds like facist propaganda. i'll bet a dollar that when everyone out there takes the time to watch the documentaries on youtube, about the elections being rigged (Hacking Democracy), the criminals who are in the highest offices of the federal government (Chip Tatum), the complete disregard of the constitution and the Supreme Court decisions in turning over the power to print $ to the Federal Reserve (Aaron Russo's "Freedom to Facism"), the spinelessness & deceit of the media (Frank Luntz & FoxNews), not to mention information that most people would consider being on the verge of being conspiracy theory like the shadow government, eugenics, nwo, etc, etc.(Alex Jones "EndGame"), they will be so sick & sad & pissed off... You wanna talk about "blow back"?
I think you're confusing two terms -- one being "popularity" and the other being "what is right." If 90% of voters reject ideas that are morally and practically superior, that doesn't say anything about the validity of those ideas, only the opinions of the voters.
I doubt that more than 15% of Americans agree with Ron Paul on everything, but that doesn't mean that 51% (or 34% in a three way race) won't deem him the best candidate running and vote for him. He has very mainstream issues on the war, illegal immigration, balancing the budget, and protecting civil liberties, in a combination no one else offers. He's also well known for being principled and consistent, again, highly unusual in a presidential candidate, and something voters like.
Posted By: Aaron B. Walker
Date: 2008-01-24 20:53:09
As a life-long Republican, a Latter-Day Saint, and an American,
I am beside myself with anger and disillusionment toward the GOP hardliners who seem so dead-set to undermine Congressman Paul's grassroots movement.With Thompson now out of the race, who are GOP hardliners going to look to for the nomination?Apparently McCain is now their golden child and that is one frightening prospect.It doesn't take a great deal of thought and vision to see that after the convention in September when the GOP has named its nominee, the media is going to do an about face against the GOP and paint us as the whore of all the earth.They are going to turn on their Democrat spin machine and tear down the GOP at every turn.It will take a very strong GOP candidate, one that can truly call himself a conservative, one who can withstand the scrutiny of flip-flopping allegations, moderate leftist allegations and "how are you any different than Bush or the Democratic choice" allegations to hold himself out as a real choice against a Democrat.Ron Paul is truly, the only Republican on the ticket who will have the ability to withstand the barrage. Can you imagine Ron Paul on a debate stage with Hillary Clinton?He would tear out her organs right on the stage and eat them in front of the crowd (a disturbing visual, I know, but this is serious, folks!).Do you think for a moment that Hillary Clinton can stand toe to toe with Ron Paul in a discussion of the merits and value of the Constitution, a discussion of economic policy and our collapsing dollar, or a discussion on why we shouldn't pull our troops out of Iraq immediately?Paul is more educated, more well-read, and more seasoned in fighting against disinformation and government secrecy than any other Republican out there.Congressman Paul will have absolutely no problem representing the GOP to the world as a real choice for "change" in America. With Thompson now out of the race... "Who you gonna call"?? RON PAUL!! Come on... we need your help and support to save the GOP from total collapse.Lend us a hand and help us further Ron Paul's movement across American... he CAN win and he WILL win with help from you and others who have the ability to reach larger audiences. Respectfully, Aaron B. Walker
"Libertarians need to start rethinking some of their positions and admit that what Dr. Paul stands for and what you believe in is NOT what most American's think America is about."
"Libertarians need to start rethinking some of their positions" - That's hysterical.
As far as the rest, Ron Paul has already won. What he's started is not going to end with this campaign. The seed has been planted... where it grows is anyones guess at this point, but grow it will.
Never have I given a dime to a candidate before Ron Paul, but when you put your money where your mouth is, that's a statement.
I'm not naive and know American's by in large when it comes to electing their leaders most are clueless except what they are told not what they found out for themselves.
There is hope, the other day unsolicited by me my 14 year old granddaughter and her friend started telling me about the NAU.
If Ron Paul doesn't do well and we slip into the NWO we have no one to blame but ourselves. The flip-side of the coin from Freedom is Oligarchy; that brand of serfdom isn't so bad. You can always bow down and lick the hand that feeds You. Happy Corporatism !
The only way Ron Paul has a chance of winning the nomination and the general election is if this video is sent to everyone everywhere. We must send this to everyone we know...vote capture and tabulation has to be changed to ensure a fair election process. Please watch this and send it to EVERYONE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-YXvxYbck&feature=related
Discovery Channel's Mythbusters just proved that lead balloons can float. And Libertarians/ Ron Paul supporters don't "challenge everything". They believe in the constitution and question those who act like they've never heard of it.
According to the Polls, according to the supposed "realists" out there, and according to you- Ron Paul does not have a chance... so why spend so much energy trying to wake us up or shake sense into us? Why worry, why bother? Leave Ron Paul supporters the hell alone, vote for whoever CNN or Fox news tell you to, and go save some naive group of people in need of your brilliant light.
And while we're name calling mr. blogger- alien?Frightening? Naive, Idealistic? Those seem to go against the "ad hominem" rule of your website. Can you prove that Ron Paul Supporters are naive or any of the other suggested defamations? Please allow me to retort with an actual definitions from webster's dictionary. Tool:something used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession, one that is used or manipulated by another, a means to an end. You wrote this article: your vocation, you are manipulated by all you read and see on television(as we all are, right?), and from what I gather from your words, you hope to be a means to an end for us senseless Ron Paul supporters. So I say that you, by proven definition and not in violation of your ad hominem rule, are a tool.
thumbs down was not an option to click on this article, but may I suggest it here.
I've had a similar thought myself. Conspiracy theories aside, say Ron Paul does lose. Or, to make it more ugly, say Hillary wins. Her winning means more people voted for her than anybody else. This simply means that the majority of Americans agree with her. They agree with her on tax increases, socialized medicine, big government, the whole works. They are the majority! They are America! With their vote they have shaped America into what they want it to be!
Where does that leave us, the ones who value the constitution to the letter?
Mr. Statist, your positions are sounding a bit nihilistic. In that vein, it is like you argue that there is no purpose in a fight against a leviathin, if in the end one does not "win" the fight. There are many ways to winning, chief among them being the ability to disable the opponent. In time, a new band of fighters may progress (or win) against the weakened opponent.
Politics cannot be thought of as a discrete event. Rather, politics is a series of progressive events. I'm concerned that too many people consider this election as an all-or-nothing gambit. One of the chief purposes of this election is to spread new ideas; these ideas will not easily take root in an electorate that is half brain-dead from years of corporatist-bureaucratic hypnosis and TV watching. With every percentage point that ticks up on the chart for Ron Paul, with every statement that is allowed to squeak through the gatekeepers, with every Internet video, someone is getting touched.
You must already see that the "mainstream" candidates are taking huge body blows. They are either flip-flopping, mumbo-jumboing, or reincarnating themselves on a number of issues that Dr. Paul has addressed (and the vocal minority supports).
I agree that the mainstream voters may not yet be touched. Of course, these voters are bound to wither away over the years, get the message, or even refuse the message outright (that's an option). However, even if they refuse the message, that is a beginning of change--because that means they are thinking about it (and it will rattle around in their brains).
If your point is, America cannot change (the nihilism bent here), then you miss one key dynamic: America is going to change, period. And with any good fight, when the sand shifs beneath the feet of the fighters, anything becomes possible--because the rules and advantages of the game change.
America has been and still maybe considered Libertarian since the 60's. The left has tried to hijack this and the right merely channeld the energy that has recently been loosened. The major fact that after Vietnam the left claimed it their own win while using the uncomitted or disinterested in the protests against the Vietnam War and to this day still claim "ownership" while the right decries such actions maybe the most disingenuous game in political history over the past 50 years. Without the Libertarians whom generally don't ever vote the left would not have ended the Vietnam War and nor would the split have occured that created the Libertarian party. The left went in a very predictable path and left all of the Libertarians out to dry so to speak, while the social conservative attempted to overrun the Republican party. The Libertarians need to do some spring cleaning and take back the Republican party from the new liberals that invaded, as well as the hyper religious anti-intellectual uninformed economically people that have run up a massive deficit and allowed the conservative principles of sound financial management to be eroded to the point of possible economic collapse. I would say the majority of people in society are Libertarian but just don't realize they are and would either not care nor vote. Does that mean they are uninformed by not participating, I would argue they are more informed for not participating, but now since we have a real Libertarian conservative running for the Republican office we need to turn on the 1960's kind of action that made the media quiver with surprise. Paul maybe actually the first candidate in a generation to spark 60's style establishment fear, in fact this maybe not just a young person's movement but a "boomer" reactivation after many years of dormancy. I see this kind of candidate to be a sign of the future and the present the way the economy maybe going now. The only question will be when he wins a state and the media decide not to report it. Then we can really learn something about the dangers of not just media consolidation but political.
If Dr. Paul loses by a landslide it will not be because his ideas were rejected by a majority of voters. It will be because most of those voters have not spent the necessary time reviewing his ideas. Most Americans still rely on the MSM for their "unbiased" political information. When that MSM frames Dr. Paul as a lovable kook and his supporters as conspiracy theorists and white supremacists, the battle becomes all the more uphill. It doesn't help that the majority of my fellow citizens don't think past party and many of them cannot tell me what the Fed is and how it operates. They don't understand the intricacies of government and the role of the executive branch. Seventy-five years of big government propaganda has skewed the publics' perception of exactly what the Oval Office stands for. It will take time for people to once again become independent, self-guided and politically aware.
Posted By: patrick henry
Date: 2008-01-25 09:07:50
REPUBLIC not a Democracy.
by definition the original REPUBLICans are LIBERTarians.
LIBERTY equals Responsibility, and lets face it we have a lazy dependant society. End welfare, corporate socialism and save me from myself govt and the ideals of LIBERTY will grow. Just like a child understands responsibility and learns to take it once made to. Turn off the tit and see if peoples minds change.
NEWS FLASH: If I didnt fornicate to make you I am not responsible for you. Get a phluckin job and leave me to my LIBERTY.
Everyone talks about change. Screw change! Change is what got us here in the first place. We changed from the ideals of LIBERTY and personal RESPONSIBILITY. If you want things to improve lets go back to the origianl plan, not continue to purpetuate this madness with further change.
Dr. Paul getting elected does not matter anymore at this point. Its not about HIM. All others "sell" themselves. Dr. Paul presents LIBERTY. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!! He has awoken the country to no longer blindly take this kinda shift from our servant govt.
Government is the servant
We are the master
LIBERTY or DEATH
PS I am glad that our founders had more faith, insight and intestinal fortitude that most of you sheeple
No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?
Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.
There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?
Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.
There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
I watch the evening news and I rarely hear anything about him. If I do hear something it seems to always include some type of negativity or denial of electability.
So why bother with all of this? When I am told repeatedly that he can't win. This must be true.
Why Vote Ron Paul?
(The hard truth about our government)
Simple common sense tells us the answer to this question, here is why. We have more than 700 military bases across the globe in 130 countries, 14 now in Iraq alone with hundreds of thousands of troops deployed around the world costing the American people a trillion dollars a year. We are the dictators and the big bullies, we meaning the US government and the policy makers. That is why we have terrorism, We do what we want around the world, we rule by fear and that is what defines a dictatorship!!
What’s next? Sanctions on Iran? In Iraq alone sanctions prior to 9/11 caused the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children under the age of five with hundreds of thousands of other civilian deaths. Saddam Hussein and the US government had something in common, that is the murder of the innocent. Injustices causes hatred, and hatred causes people to do unspeakable things, hence terrorism. After sanctions come war and war equals more deaths, more hatred. Then what? Syria? Why not go after Chávez in Venezuela? By the way, did you also know that these countries are all countries without US military bases?
People do not like foreign occupation, no matter who the foreigner is, even if it is an alley. One example of this is in Italy. A US fighter jet flew so low that it hit a ski lift with twenty people on board killing all twenty. Justice was not served, no trial, not a thing, just a “I’m sorry” from George Bush. People were very upset for a good while. Another incident just recently, In Vicenza Italy the US Ederle military base was planning to do some major expanding and the people all over Italy were outraged organizing protest marches all over Italy, In Vicenza alone the march attracted more than 100,000 people. In the end the Italian people lost, hence the big bullies’ term, just think if something like that happened here!
We the people need to put an end to all this, we are bankrupting ourselves and we are making this country more vulnerable to terrorism than ever.
Wake up! Unite, and stop thinking in terms of race, male, female, democrat or republican, they want us divided so they can have more power over us and control us. If the American people were united this government would be already overthrown and we the people would have this country back to the way our forefathers intended it to be, free and prosperous for the whole world to see, not trying to force our way of life on the whole world causing people to hate us, but to set a good example for people to admire. The world would be a much better place, we don’t want a police state, force never works! Unite, vote Ron Paul and help restore the republic.
Anyone who is a seeker of truth and has any semblence of an open mind will research Ron Paul's positions and his record and will join his cause.
More and more of us are seeing the growing cracks in the foundation of this country and feel the seriousness of our present reality. Corporate and Political greed have truly taken over.
Well I disagree with the poster because the true success of an idea is not that everyone agrees with us. The success of an idea is that it gains adherents. Christianity didn't immediately become successful, in fact, its founder got killed. Now, thousands of years later, it's a powerful force worldwide.
The more Ron Paul talks the more people start to agree with him. That's what has the establishment scared.
You can look at the guys chart and know that he will say anything to make Ron Paul look bad, or try to slow down the movement. It is in the logic of people with such statist views that people are cattle, and should be treated as such. They believe that if they are smart enough to get in charge, then the people get what they deserve
But it's funny this is the argument they've been reduced to. That people just don't want freedom, because they don't know what it is.
What they fail to realize however, is that we know people don't understand, and that is why we measure on the ground made, not on the same measure as the establishment candidates. Because we know that once you show people the truth, they will not support anyone else. So keep making excuses, and hope the voting is rigged, it's the only chance you got.
No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the house. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the house is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at the truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the numbers of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.
I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?
Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlement assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation.
There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free--if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.
It is in vain, sir, to extentuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
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