Topic: Presidential Campaign 2008
The Violation of Chruch and State - a race issue. Concerning Barack Obama, Martin Luther King Jr. and God's House. Why race and Jesus don't mix.by a Theologian
(libertarian)
Sunday, January 20, 2008
Today Senator Obama spoke at Ebenezer Baptist Church - the home church of Martin Luther King Jr. He did this on the eve of Martin Luther King Jr. day. He spoke heavily on race relations and how black people are railing against the walls of Jericho, apparently a white establishment.
The gall of this irks me to my very core. The Bible says there is only one race that matters - Christian. The Bible hammers home this point in Galatians 3:26-29, "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
The point is the same weather you count yourselves as a believer or not. Race doesn't matter... not to God anyway. Trying to score political points in God's House by playing the race card is an abomination. Is the man worshiping God? or is he running for President? Let's not forget that he is running as a representative of the Democratic Party - the champion of "separation of church and state". He shouldn't darken the doorway of any church for political gain; much less preach from the pulpit. Does his hypocrisy know no bounds?
I'm willing to bet his pundits and handlers thought this would be an excellent move. The Main Stream Media can't get enough of it. As far as they are concerned, Obama is the second coming of MLK Jr. - and it pays to promote that message. There is a week's worth of headlines from that one little speech given at Ebenezer Baptist Church. I remember another story about people trying to make money in the house of God. It ended with Jesus in a righteous fury gathering a whip made out of cords and driving them out of the temple. I think if the people at Ebenezer Baptist Church wanted to be more Christ-like, they would drive out the MSM, the Obama campaign, and anyone else who wasn't there to worship God.
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Posted By: Scott from Oregon
Date: 2008-01-20 18:44:19
One of the interesting things to come out of DNA science lately is the recognition that "race" is really misleading. The differences in humans can be traced back to evolutionary adaptations and lineages, making the "white" race and "Asian" race, all of the same historically.
As one who was never indoctrinated into any religious cult, be it one of the Judeo-Christian/Islamic "sand" religions or the fanaticisms of the Orient, I am appalled by ALL of the candidates and their pandering to atavistic and superstitious leanings.
The idea of God is comforting and unprovable, yet there are too many out there of influence claiming to know the mind of an unproven and unknowable- perhaps make-believe- entity.
The Bible has a long history where a so called invisible man in the sky named Yahwey (God), has allowed numerous cases of genocide against the indigenous people in modern day Israel. Race did matter even in the time of the New Testament, what became clear to Jesus, was that he needed followers to worship him, so he had his appostles go and preach more mystacism in the world causing all kinds of wars, but also leading to more understanding of other peoples and a movement towards Atheism.
It is no wonder why people have a tendency to believe such off the wall things, such as 9/11 truthers and Conspiracy theorists, when we still have a whole lot of people who still believe that there is an invisible man who lives in the sky, who has made a list of 10 things that he wants you to do, and if you don't do those things, then he is going to send you to a place where you will burn, be tourtured, and be put in great pain forever and ever. But he loves you, and he needs your money. For some reason, the creator of all things needs your money.
Here are some examples:
It was ok for god to be racist against the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 19:24
It was ok for Abraham to make his servant swear that he won't let Isaac marry a Canaanite. Gen 24:3
It was ok for Jacob's sons not to stand the idea of their sister marrying someone who was uncircumcised. Gen 34:14
It was ok for the invisible man in the sky to think about killing the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." Ex 11:7
Do not allow others to worship a different god. Conquer them and destroy their religious property. Ex 23:24
The people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies Titus 1:12
Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." Titus 1:10-11
Every skeptic and nonbeliever has "an evil heart of unbelief. Hebrews 3:12
Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. Hebrews 10: 28-29
Don't associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Need I go on? There are 558 verses that deal with intolerance in the Bible. The Bible is not a tollerant book nor is Christianity. It amases me that a "christian" can even call himself a Libertarian. I guess that you must be picking and choosing your beliefs.
Christopher Espinal: Are you suggesting that church and state should fuse together?
No. I do believe in being consistent though. The party that wants to remove religious symbols from the public sphere should not be campaigning in a church.
@the statist... you are one of the reasons I decided to write here. There are legitimate answers to every one of your complaints about holy writ. For a time, God chose to identify himself with the Jewish people. He claimed them. However, the promise to Abraham was always that his decendants would be a blessing to all peoples. With the coming of Christ and the expansion of the gospel into the whole world, that was fulfilled.
I have never claimed and will never claim that the Bible is tollerant. It isn't meant to be. It is a sword, a narrow gate, a line in the sand. Christ does not seek to force belief down your throat.
Being a libertarian is the choice that makes sense for me as a Christian. I want to be able to educate my children under my terms, without paying for government schools. I want to be able to give my money to the poor without the government doing it for me. I want to be able to donate towards causes that have an impact instead of feeding the bureaucracy. I want a ballanced budget. The ideals of personal responsibility go hand in hand with Christian doctrine.
ps... I liked it better when you identified yourself as a statist - it was far less confusing.
So you actually believe that the invisible man in the sky favored Jews and hated everyone else?
Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin? Even though the best foods are shaped like dicks? Because the invisible man in the sky thinks so.
Do you believe that even with all of its contradictions, that the bible is the holy, perfect, and infailiable word of god?
Do you actually believe that God Created the world as described word for word in Genesis and not evolved as described by Scientific theory?
Do you believe that I have an evil heart and will be punnished in hell simply because I don't believe in some Jew who died over 2008 years ago for my sins because his dad was the invisible man in the sky who wouldn't save him?
I must be pure evil in your eyes.
Funny, you get confused over my name. You must also be profoundly confused when George Carlin asks the question, "What year did Jesus think that it was?"
I guess you think that the founding fathers were Christian too. Even though Jefferson edited his own Bible and owned a copy of the Quran. It must be difficult to believe your preacher when he tells you that God wants America to be a Christian nation.
Do you lament over the fact that our laws are not based on the 10 Commandments?
Do you believe that the Jews had no idea that the things listed in the 10 commandments were bad before they were told that they were?
LOL I love religion. I remember the day I finally stopped praying. It was durring a rocket attack, and Jesus wasn't there. LOL.
I like your premise, I feel your fire, and I identify with it to an extent. You've clearly hit a nerve that I think surely bears discussing.
You get a "Thumb" from me for those reasons; however, I'm a bit concerned to see a level of carelessness that allows such a major typo / misspelling, and in the title no less! :(
And so, that's my long way of getting around to inviting you to join the Nolan Chart Columnists Lounge - You'll find a link in your Control Panel, "Visit Lounge" where you'll find some practical suggestions for improving your articles as well as a forum for "behind the scenes" discussions among authors.
Greetings. you are showing a bit of your bias, but it's understandable. We all have bias, it's called perspective. The Christian perspective, unfortunately has developed some catch phrases that can become confusing to people who don't read WND or go to a Cchurch regularly.
The Statist obviously has some anti-Christian views, and they cloud his judgement. If he read the 1st Amendment he would understand the so-called "seperation clause" limits both the promotion and supression of religion in any form. Like some of the more rabid atheists, he sees Christianity as a force in politics, not unlike the rabid evangelical who sees the powerful secularists in every public office. Don't sweat it. It's just the pitfalls of perspective. I got your point just fine. And it was a good one.
My word you are rather unpleasant! That said, I really feel for you. If the last statement you made has any truth to you, I understand your bitterness. However, there may be a different, more receptive place for your anti-Christian rantings. This article, as far as I could tell, simply pointed out one small hypocrisy in Mr. Obama's campaign that annoyed Theologian. If anything, I would expect you would agree with the author that politics should stay out of the church, and visa versa. That is, I believe, the only point he was making.
As for the possibility of being a Christian Libertarian (or a Libertarian Christian) I have found that the political philosophy of Libertarianism and the religious philosophy of Christianity complement eachother very well. Jesus did not suggest that Christians have any right to punish others they may deem morally inferior - that is left to God in the final days. Likewise, I do not believe we should try to legislate morality, limiting people's freedoms just because their behaviors tend to occur in the minority. I may not believe homosexuality is acceptable to God, for instance, but I would never vote to outlaw the practice.
It was ok for god to be racist against the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 19:24
It was ok for Abraham to make his servant swear that he won't let Isaac marry a Canaanite. Gen 24:3
It was ok for Jacob's sons not to stand the idea of their sister marrying someone who was uncircumcised. Gen 34:14
It was ok for the invisible man in the sky to think about killing the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." Ex 11:7
Do not allow others to worship a different god. Conquer them and destroy their religious property. Ex 23:24
The people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies Titus 1:12
Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." Titus 1:10-11
Every skeptic and nonbeliever has "an evil heart of unbelief. Hebrews 3:12
Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. Hebrews 10: 28-29
Don't associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10 MY REPLY
Greetings Statist!
If 'the statist' is going to use the scriptures – he should know a bit more what he's talking about. This might help Statist with his understanding of the destruction of nations ('races'/ideological governments) in the Old Testament.
It begins in Gen 6:1 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God ((fallen angles in Hebrew)) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also(is but flesh in Hebrew) is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. Gen 6:4 There were giants ((נפילים, nephi'lim (Gen_6:4; ; רפאים, meaning “earth born” resulting in large stature)) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God((fallen Angles)) came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, ((pure, undefiled seed stock from Adam to Noah)) and Noah walked with God. End of Scripture area
The point is simply this- Imagine a genetic war, one where the fusing of one DNA with another would contaminate the host there by destroying the original purity of a genetic line. These fallen angle were physical in form and not of this earth and their offspring were or became ‘giant’ in size. With that knowledge -add in time- and you will see this happening before the flood of Noah AND ALSO AFTER THAT. Big point. But remember Noah and his family were “perfect in (their) generations” of pure seed/linage to Adam.
Now look at and understand that the contamination of MANKIND as a whole began before and AFTER the flood. It’s no wonder to me why God would have destroyed all ‘poisoned lines’ of 'man and beast' that came after that-, the flood.
The circumcision is simply one way of identifying pure seed stock (including Religious matters) from non-pure/non believers. It’s also why some believe the Hebrew/Jews kept such detailed records of who married who. Purity.
You have to study Hebrew and the root (ancient) definitions of words to see what happened and why concerning this subject matter.
As for your view on the Egyptians- remember that Pharaoh called for the death of the first born of the Hebrew slaves and Moses had already told him that the next curse upon Egypt would come out of his own mouth- the mouth of Pharaoh himself. So Pharaoh cursed himself and you are mad at God? Go figure.
God just let him have what he wished. Just not on who or where he wished. Woops. "How'd that curse work out for Pharaoh?
And, lastly concerning the verses in Titus 1Pe 2:15 “For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
That’s how the mouths of fools are to be stopped. And the Book to the Hebrews verses you mentioned- don’t take them out of context but understand the word of God in whole and not just in selective part.
Hopefully this will help you understand a few things a little better. You need help with your greek (new Testament) understanding also. No biggy if you try.
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