Topic: Ron Paul
Third Party Run is a Horrible Idea There is nothing good that can come of this tactic. People should try to understand this before grass roots attention undermines current momentum.by Jahfre Fire Eater
(Libertarian)
Saturday, January 12, 2008
A third party run is the best way to completely kill the Ron Paul Revolution for generations. It is a bad idea. There are no good points.
Like it or not, the Democratic Pary and the Grand Old Party of the Republic are the heavyweights in our political system. Dr. Paul figured this out quickly after his 1988 Libertarian Party candicacy.
I think he has as much chance of winning the GOP nomination as anyone at this point. However, should he NOT win the nomination. The best tactic for him is a grass roots write-in campaign to override the GOP nominee as a write-in R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N.
He will never agree to a third party run because he understands it means everything that happened in 2007 was wasted effort and will be forgotten by history.
See my Nolan Chart articles (below) for details about why Third Parties are only political sand boxes where nothing of substance can ever happen regarding national elections. You can't emote a sand box into a full-fledged construction site with real, powerful machinery. Once you confine your activity to the sand box, you limit your tools to tonka toys. Independent, LP, Green, they all suffer the same drawback; their ideal and platform appeal to many but their ability to deliver by putting people who support those ideals into office is only a dream, a sham, a scam or a waste, depending on which of the common unrealistic expectations one might have for their particular 3rd party.
(I am an HTML novice, I have no idea why the links below are not rendered properly. Sorry.)
Those who advocate a third party run for Dr. Paul are puffed up on emotion and idealism. This is a very bad idea for Dr. Paul and for all of us. History would not be kind to Ron Paul if he took this horrible path and the future will be one in which this kind of loving revolution can never arise again if he does this foolish thing.
Jahfre Fire Eater
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2008 Jahfre Fire Eater, all rights reserved.
Published: Saturday, January 12, 2008
Last modified: Saturday, January 12, 2008
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Jahfre, while I agree with all your points about a third party run with an established third party what about an independent run?
Case in point, pro-war Joe Liebermann. Here in Connecticut we thought Joe was finished when Ned Lamont took the Democratic nomination from him. Joe went on to run as an "independent Democrat" promising to caucus with the Democrats in spite of having to operate outside the system. As you know, Joe went on to win the election as an independent.
During the race, Joe had Democrats and Republicans like McCain come to the state to campaign for him. He brilliantly played up the inter-party bickering and the need to return to bi-partisan civility. Joe defeated the Democratic nominee as well as a weak GOP candidate. The GOP swung towards his favor.
So should he lose the GOP nomination why not run Ron Paul as an "independent Republican" running under the Ron Paul Revolution banner? If pro-war Hillary wins the Democratic nomination then Ron Paul could swing the Democratic vote and 70% of independents who oppose the war.
I think you're spot-on here, thanks for putting it so clearly.
Third parties are desperately needed in America, but (especially in a nationwide presidential race) the time is not yet. However, there have been considerable successes in local and regional races.
BTW, I didn't see any problem with your links, but feel free to contact me if you have HTML questions? :)
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2008-01-12 13:02:09
OK, I hope this works. I wrote this great reply, submitted it, then my column locked up, demanding I enter a valid email address. I did. That is the comment above "asfas". Meaningless but necessary.
Anyway, here is a poorer rendition of my brilliant, lost reply. It wasn't meant to be... ;-)
Ron Paul must win as a Republican or we all lose. Before we can agree on the best course of action we should agree on goals, or at least identify where our goals differ and where Dr. Paul's might differ from our own.
Goals:
1. Topple the lunatic neocon leadership from the controls of the GOP and restore the party to its conservative roots. Or set in motion the grass roots movement that will eventually reclaim control for conservatives.
2. Keep the voter's focused on the dire conditions that our recent policies have put us in financially, economically and diplomatically. We're in a mess here.
3. Win the GOP nomination.
4. Win the presidency.
If Dr. Paul abandons the first two goal and attempts to win the presidency by some fluke of Democratic Party strategies all the efforts and success of the grass roots movement to change the GOP from withing will be nullified.
If he wins as a non-Republican there will be much reason to celebrate but in the grand scheme, nothing has changed. There will still be angry, rich, powerful and demented liberal neocons in charge of the most powerful political machinery the world has ever seen.
It is possible an independent run could succeed. So what? The neocons will be sitting at the controls of their gigantic bull dozer stunned and annoyed that some wiry old man with a refurbished wheelbarrow and a 17th Century shovel have upset their construction site. Such antics do nothing to change the long-term vision of the globalists, the socialist or the neocons who are the more fascist of the bunch.
However, the down side is devastating, should he fail at such a useless endeavor. History will record the Ron Paul Revolution, and indeed, those of us who fueled the movement, as a giang horsefly that drew blood but was suddenly swatted away by a manure stained elephant tail.
We need to take control of the freaking bulldozer. It may take lifetimes but it is our only hope.
Jahfre Fire Eater
P.S. Thanks Creator. The links didn't work in my preview but appear fine in the published version. I should remove my novice disclaimer.
I'll be publishing my first website very soon, The Alphaville Decoder. We are building tools and information resources to enable the grass roots to become an even more powerful tool in the future.
We believe the technology and the message and the tools can come together to give us a chance to take control of that bulldozer and never let it slip from our grasp again.
We are building a framework for harnessing the power and agility of the grass roots while simultaneously keeping its engines, you and I, free to exercise our Individual Liberty outside the constraints of the two party system. This is part of the education process, the self-education process that is fueling the revolution. Thanks Walt, for providing this innovative and valuable tool for enabling those who will, to continuously self-educate.
I don't agree. First, I hope Ron Paul wins the GOP nomination, and yes, I think he could.
IF RP does not win the GOP nomination, There are thouands of Independents like me, who are willing, ready and able to CARRY THE MESSAGE forward and forcing candidates to take notice.
An Independent run will enable Dr. Paul and his supporters to continue to educate the public why they will reget not supporting Ron Paul, and this can also help Ron Paul like minded candidates in other senate and congressional elections.
Ron Paul has a war chest for this election, many fired up grassroots, I say GO FOR an INDYRUN08 (IF he does not win the GOP nomination), at his age has NOTHING to lose by going forward with THE MESSAGE, selling his books, tapes...issues.
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2008-01-12 16:45:50
Well, there's where we disagree, huh? You think he has nothing to lose and I think he and we have everything to lose by a non-Republican run. I know Dr. Paul is too smart to do this but if a lot of people like you advocate it loudly, our opponents will use that to show he is not a real republican...whatever that means...
My goal is to do everything I can to ensure people who agree with me on this out number people who agree with you. That's the game. I'm in it for life, you're in it until November despite the long term damage to your supposed goals.
Once again, Mr. Fire Eater exhibits inspirational perspective, leadership, and outstanding communication skills. I look foreward to the Alphaville Decoder.
As a Christian, I thank God for Jahfre Fire Eater.
Excellent point against running outside GOP and specially the point about leaving the neocons still in charge of the bulldozer.
There was another article earlier today about making DK a running mate and I posted a comment on that article, but it looks like the article was removed later.
There I made one suggestion that this election should not be an all or nothing game, rather this movement should gear itself up for the long term and the participants should be prepared for a tactical defeat in this primary or the election in November, although we give it our best shot. This is to keep expectations low and avoid any heartbreak that could affect the post election momentum of the movement.
The second suggestion I made is to implement some form of direct democracy experiment, similar to Swiss direct democracy project, where all Ron Paul supporters, current and future, can login and vote to participate in major decision making for the direction of the campaign and other issues like the one we are discussing now. The campaign is being financed by the supporters, there is some coordination now, but it is not transparent to all grass roots supporters how day to day decisions are being made. I have a friend who is a Colorado precinct leader. He is good with this kind of thing and I also have spare servers and some spare bandwidth in my home dsl. If there is an interest, we have the tools to start the project.
Having run as a third-party candidate for Congress I know the challenges our current system tosses in the path of success. Ron Paul knows even better than I as he ran in this capacity in 1988 for President. Independent is no better than third-party. Until the U.S. voter demand an end to oligarchy rule, until we demand equality in elections, until we demand two-party usurpation is ended no candidate stands a reasonable chance of success.
Dr. Paul has given us his heart, soul, and focus. Let us not also demand he further bleed out in some Independent run. Let us support his campaign now but if he doesn't win the nomination for the GOP let us support his return to Congress. We NEED him at the helm of the Republican Liberty Caucus. His voice can no longer be ignored in that capacity thanks to his valiant efforts and those of the revolutionaries acroos the country. Don't expect or demand he further sacrafice his stature or ability by pushing for an Independent run.
Encourage him to campaign for an Independent or third-party candidate...that's fine. Give him the respect he deserves by letting him return to TX and the RLC. Stay together to influence the outcome of future efforts with his voice as our voice, that of restoring our grand experiment to the founding legacy placed before us in the Constitution. Stay the course in the Long Haul Revolution! Don't give in nor give up if he chooses (as he should) to not run Independent but to return to Congress as a Representative. Let our grand lightning rod guide the RLC.
It is time others step forward in third-party or Independent efforts. Younger, better orators that can carry the banner of liberty and freedom. Dear Dr. Paul has sacraficed enough and provided the fuel, now use it to make real changes while letting him lead the effort to retake control from the RNC, restoring the GOP or clearly defining the meaning of Independent.
Thanks for this clearly focused article...Paul supporters know the revolution is not about Dr. Paul as much as it is about his clearly accurate message!
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2008 Jahfre Fire Eater, all rights reserved.