Topic: Ron Paul
Can Ron Paul's Message Overcome the Damage Done by His Poison Fans? New Hampshire says 'No'.by Jahfre Fire Eater
(Libertarian)
Wednesday, January 9, 2008
Looks like Dr. Paul's poison fans have killed his campaign. Now the long struggle for 2012 begins. I didn't expect Ron Paul to catch on as well as he has even though I was a backer from the day his campaign started.
I will never understand how people who claim Dr. Paul's message is important to them can refuse to take their own behavior and its consequences seriously. They think this is a game. It is NOT. Our liberty is at stake and these fools think that making public spectacles, shouting fear mongering slogans through a bull horn and chasing talk show hosts in the street is the way to protect our liberty? How did people come to believe such inane tactics are productive?
Thankfully, after this election, those poison fan-type people will not continue to pollute the GOP. They do not have the sense and determination to learn how politics works and to take it seriously. They will jump into the next movement that fuels their outrage and gives them the opportunity to make asses of themselves as they continue the ignorant public spectacles that they and their prison planet guru thrive on. If anyone really needed evidence of the dumbing down of America this group epitomizes the result if not the process.
The rest of us need to work even harder to counter act the damage done by these poison Paul fans. This contest will be a scramble for every last delegate. The longer it goes on, the more momentum Dr. Paul gains. His poison fans will lose their fire if the do not receive instant gratification so there may be hope that we can recover by super Tuesday next month. It isn't up to the spectacle participants. It is up to those of us who know how to dress well and talk to our neighbors. Canvassing wins elections. Everything else is just noise.
Jahfre Fire Eater
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2008 Jahfre Fire Eater, all rights reserved.
Published: Wednesday, January 9, 2008
Last modified: Wednesday, January 9, 2008
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Although I agree with you for the most part about instigators doing what they have been doing. I think that this election is already decided and the only hope we have is being able to wake people up and understand exactly why we do need a lot of Ron Paul type leaders. These "poison people" are not only Ron Paul supporters they are truth seekers in all forms. these "fear mongerers" with bull horns are looking beyond this election because they know our man will not be allowed to win this election, so all that is being done is getting REAL issues into the debates and discussions.
How do you do Mr. Fire Eater? To say that Paul's poison supporters have killed the campaign that caught on better than you expected is a contradiction to say the least. And you indicate the lonely road ahead in what I would find a realistic manner. But how can we say that this "poison" element hurt the campaign? I find it more probably that NH voters would have never heard about Dr. Paul if not for the spastic on-the-ground support that congregated there, which has now evolved into the "Ron Paul R3VOlUTION!". This phenomenon has done something no movement has managed to do since the 1960s, it has energized and activated a new generation.
So yes, they are certainly boisterous, they are undisciplined, they are prone to make political and tactical mistakes. They are aware, they know what's going on and they are terrified at the prospects our nation faces. They have every right to be. This whole mess is their to clean up and everybody knows it. This speak louder to our (and previous generations) failure to safeguard the future on their (and future generations) behalf. And these have had not a long life of resignation to the statu-quo. Nor have they retreated to morosely typing the woes of mud tracked on the carpet and misplaced table linens in the halls of proper social discourse.
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2008-01-09 20:32:43
Hey There Oyate, It is unfortunate that my article led you to incorrectly assert that I contradicted myself. I don't understand how you have come to that assertion but if you could elaborate I'm sure I can clear this up.
I also don't understand the motive for you tone. I made no criticism of the movement, or of the energy or the enthusiasm or even the mistakes that people make along the way. Hell, I'm part of that movement; I've been in it up to my eyeballs and the limits of my budget for the past 8 months. My criticism was directed specifically to a very small group of people. Not with any hope of changing them, they will not even recognize themselves in my descriptions. My intentions are to acknowledge they exist, acknowledge they are an obstacle to success and to devise a strategy for success in spite of them. I would love if Dr. Paul won but the reality is that this is a life-long struggle. The defense of freedom can never rest and it cannot suffer fools lightly. This is serious business.
There is certainly nothing wrong with enthusiastic crowds of supporters chanting and waving signs. I've done it myself. I've driven in parades too. I never leave the house without handouts and wearing my "Paul Gear".
I'm specifically refer to those who put their own personal agenda and ego above the goal of getting Dr. Paul nominated.
I spent every weekend for 14 weeks staffing events, parades, information booths, county fairs, rodeos, etc. We put thousands of miles on our vehicle getting people started with spreading Dr. Paul's message. Every single time we were out in public we had to deal with people who were turned off, pissed off and scared by the behavior of Dr. Paul's poison fans. So yes, I can say they have damaged this campaign and I hold them accountable. I have seen it first hand nearly every day for 8 months. I believe if Dr. Paul had never been associated with Alex Jones or his worst disciples, he would be a front runner today. I believe their constant, relentless damage to be that harmful in the long run.
The basis for my criticism is the numbers of people involved. The poison fans are a tiny group, a drop in the ocean...even less than that, compared to the numbers of disgruntled and apathetic conservative Republicans whose participation in the nomination process is absolutely necessary for Dr. Paul to win. The poison fans are even a tiny portion of Alex Jones listeners. They are a very small, very harmful group that the media focuses on at every opportunity. You misrepresented my position by bringing the entirety of Dr. Paul's support base into my criticism when I am specifically referring to a very small group of people.
Working inside the GOP, where the vast sea of potential Ron Paul supporters conduct weekly meetings and monthly events to carry out the business of the party, I have met far more people who are annoyed by and scared of Ron Paul's fans than I have those who would support him anyway. I personally know several people who love Ron Paul's message but wouldn't be caught dead on the same side with freaks chanting in the street. There are consequences to behavior but our society is full of people who have never been held responsible for the consequences of their behavior. I'm holding these people responsible because I have seen this happen, first hand.
You imply that there is no damage done by fear mongering tactics as long as you happen to agree with the goals? Fear is the most powerful tool of our enemies; the same tactics that liberals use. Both Democrat liberals and the Republican liberal neocons rely on fear to manipulate their supporters. I see no difference when Ron Paul supporters do it. Neither do the people who have been turned off from Dr. Paul by these antics.
I don't give a rats ass what anyone believes. I'm not hoping to convert anyone or change any minds. I only care about their actions that jeopardize my liberty and thwart my efforts to defend it.
I'm talking about people who would drive a thousand miles to see Dr. Paul in person while skipping a weekend of canvassing in their own neighborhood. They have no clue what is important they just do what feels good. I'm talking about people who cannot be bothered to put on a nice shirt for a GOP Christmas Party. I'm talking about people who badger and argue and lecture but never ask anyone what is important to them. I'm talking about people who have no idea what a meeting is or how to conduct themselves in public. I'm talking about people who put their personal glory ahead of their stated goals and I hold them responsible even if they will never see themselves in the mirror I'm holding.
This is a long fight. It may take decades to dislodge the neocons. The poison fans I mentioned have no clue about tomorrow, they live for an adrenalin rush today. They will find a fresh fix tomorrow; a new cause, a new fuel for their outrage. Personally, win, lose or draw, I cannot wait until they move on and leave the GOP to those of us who are willing to do the hard work on a daily basis. They make a mockery of Dr. Paul's message that is very hard to overcome.
Thanks for your comment. I look forward to your elaboration of the contradiction you asserted.
Posted By: Jessie James Jones, Jr
Date: 2008-02-07 20:47:28
Well you are ignorant yourself to believe that people are not going to be ignorant, firstly. Secondly, it is every citizen's God given right to freedom of expression, regardless of whether that expression is pleasing or disgusting to you. Just as though people in the media act like asses, as are they matched by those individuals in the streets; they have cameras and access to millions of homes, the average citizen has a book tour schedule, a video camera and a youtube account. They are protesting, they are expressing their rights as citizens and so long as they aren't infringing on the rights of another (obviously they are not because they would be arrested) then it clearly is none of your concern. You want the words of Ron Paul but not the world of Ron Paul, in the world of Ron Paul people can do whatever...WHATEVER THEY WANT so long as they aren't infringing on the rights of another...it is the SEQUESTORING OF THIS RIGHT...which has placed us in the current situation of Ron Paul advocating a restoral of that world.
Honestly, your intellect is one dimensional in this regard. You probably see this as a number line and you're sitting at 10 and those individuals are sitting at negative 10 and their juxtapostion adds meaning and value to your life.
The three dimensional intellect realizes that we are all at zero. You fight to help them not to have a fight or to have a better fight. You fight for rich people to get richer. Poor people to get richer. Fox News to have free speech and liberty as much as you do for your favorite blog. This isn't about us versus them it's about us bettering ourselves. You know my idea is that government is our master because we locked our own collars and handed it the chain because government is a phantom, a fascimile, a concept sprung to life by constant tribute to its idol imagine. The reason we are enslaved is because we enslaved ourselves. Ron Paul represents therefore, as similar fringe campaigns before it, an oportunity that "government" gives for us to choose freedom.Time and time again...we choose enslavement and rarely once in a while we choose freedom.
Answer this question?
Why in the world do we need government and therefore governance if not because a majority decided or a minority convinced?
Leave them alone. They support Ron Paul just as much as the avid supporter, just as much as the religious donor, just as much as the precinct leaders, just as much as the rich masonic banker thinking to himself, "they just might free themselves this time".
You know why they laugh...and you know the universal they that I refer to...they laugh at you because they know that when it's all said and done you "choose" to be and remain enslaved. Don't get mad that these individuals realized their freedom and decided to act and revel in it so what. They are free men.
And don't be frustrated because they don't accept your or people like you's, direction or critique because they don't have to as free men.
It's funny. You name call and judge them just like Ron Paul is being judged and called names. Yet you identify yourself as avid supporter.
Posted By: Jahfre Fire Eater
Date: 2008-02-08 14:54:41
Hi JJJ Jr.
You must have read my profile, how sweet.
You didn't understand my article though. Some will, some won't.
I would be happy to leave the folks I wrote about alone if they were doing something that didn't matter, didn't affect my liberty and didn't undermine the credibility of our message.
Like, if they wanted to make a vase and stared by protesting that pottery wheels were not making the vase they want, started going off on endless and repetitive and ridiculous evangelical rants against people who could actually help them make the vase they want, started dreaming up endless who controls the pottery wheel and why their vase is shunned. I'd leave them alone.
Instead, by their actions, not their passion, they represent full-on enemies of my liberty and of our future. I do not use the word "enemy" lightly. This is a life-long struggle.
In the struggle for liberty there are no gray areas. These people are on the OPPOSITE side from me. Since you just don't get it, I can't tell which side you are on. You sound like a "can't we all just get along" type. Guess which side that would put you on?
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2008 Jahfre Fire Eater, all rights reserved.