Topic: Ron Paul
Ron Paul ??? excluded from Fox debate - UPDATED
Some sloppy reporting, instant web indignation, and holiday vacations produced a surge of hysteria that might have been avoided.
by William Westmiller
(libertarian)
Saturday, December 29, 2007
[See my concluding comment at the bottom and my new article 'Ron Paul: Fair and Balanced'.]
One of the hazards of instant mass communication is that incorrect stories can get distributed immediately. A particular hazard during holiday vacations. [*And when those who know the full story aren't talking*]
There is NO NH "DEBATE" on January 6th. That event was canceled three weeks ago. Ron Paul has, so far, been excluded from an "event" planned by Fox News.
Jason George of the Baltimore Sun reports at 6:02pm ET 12/30/07:
Fergus Cullen, chairman of the New Hampshire State Republican Committee, confirmed Sunday evening to the Tribune that, yes, there will be a televised Fox News presidential candidate forum on Jan. 6, and yes, Rep. Ron Paul was not invited when the other candidates were a week or so ago.
"My understanding is that five candidates to that point had been offered spots but the event is still coming together," Cullen said.
The candidates invited to the forum/debate – whatever you want to call it – will be Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. John McCain, Gov. Mitt Romney and Sen. Fred Thompson.
Cullen said the event, which is set to take place two days before the New Hampshire primary, will be held in the afternoon or evening at St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H. When asked if Fox News, which is co-sponsoring the debate with the NH party, planned to invite Paul later, Cullen said he didn't know.
"It's really premature. Just the other day candidates started to accept invitations."
The Paul campaign is still in the dark and Fox News is not talking:
"On the evening of December 28, Jared Chicoine and Jordan Brown of our New Hampshire campaign staff met in person with Fergus Cullen the New Hampshire GOP chairman to discuss whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited to participate in the forum. Mr. Cullen confirmed there will be an event on January 6, but he could not confirm whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited. We also learned the event would not be a debate with an audience, but instead would be a forum in a closed studio with the candidates questioned only by Chris Wallace of Fox News."
[emphasis added]
Ron WILL participate in the January 5th ABC/WMUR GOP debate in New Hampshire.
================= Original Report & Updates =============
So, what happened?
Months ago, NH GOP chairman Fergus Cullen had been in touch with FoxNews about a possible forum on January 6th. He had even contacted all the GOP candidates to see whether they were available. However, plans for the ABC debate were finalized with all candidates early in December and Cullen "threw in the towel." See "OUTFOXED" in the NH Union Leader of December 16th.
At that time, Cullen had not received a response from Ron Paul, who had committed to a conflicting luncheon at the NH Liberty Forum at the same time.
Skip ahead to December 27th, when the Union Leader reported that all candidates had agreed to the ABC/WMUR debate and reporter Garry Rayno added a confusing paragraph about Giuliani finally agreeing to the (canceled) January 6th forum, which had already been converted into a simple state GOP brunch.
Due to the timing of this article, there was no way to confirm who will or won't attend the brunch, but it is not a broadcast debate and has nothing to do with FoxNews. Nevertheless, a blog in Washington picked up the story, scrambled it and their "BHDC Staff" reported a list of the candidates who would be attending, which did not include Ron Paul (he hadn't officially confirmed, due to the conflict).
That story was picked up by the AP Newswire, which added some information that it had from a month earlier about the format being discussed.
Finally, the AP article was picked up by Lew Rockwell and passed along to DailyPaul.com, with all the errors intact. Of course, a firestorm ensued on all the Ron Paul nets before the information could be verified. Immediately, thousands of messages went to FoxNews and the NH GOP protesting the exclusion.
Unfortunately, the Ron Paul campaign didn't sort out the facts before sending out a news release blasting Fox for their "outrageous" conduct, even if they did note that the information had not been confirmed. From there, the report spread into dozens of blogs and news commentaries.
An unfortunate false alarm. Lesson: Fast news is sometimes "bad" news. Faux News is worthy of criticism for what they have done, not for what they haven't done. Look before you leap.
...
Update1: Not all MSM is bad. For some favorable coverage of Ron Paul, see my "Media Ears" articles: ABC, Newsweek, PBS & Cable 47
Update2: The New Hampshire GOP website makes no mention of any events on January 6th, but it does promote the NH Liberty Forum scheduled for January 5th, where Ron Paul will be speaking. I'm informed that the campaign was working with Forum sponsors and Cullen to accommodate any possible NHGOP event.
Fox News does mention the January 5th ABC debate on their schedule, but nothing in New Hampshire on January 6th.
There does appear to be some residual confusion about the GOPNH brunch on the 6th, which may occur, where some candidates may attend, and which Fox may cover as a news item, but it certainly isn't a live, broadcast debate or forum. [See Update7]
Update3: If you believe there is an error in my report, please provide a link. The story from the Big Head DC blog, linked in the article, may be a satirical fabrication intended to distress Paul supporters, which is their inclination. As for St. Anselm College, their schedule show no events whatever on January 6th.
Update4: This gets more interesting. The source for the original story was the Big Head DC blog, run by one Rob Capriccioso. At first, I thought he had just made an innocent error, but Katrina Morgan, claiming to be his wife [Capriccioso says he doesn't know her] says he is "working on a cutting-edge blog war strategy.
""Blog wars were so lame before my husband came around. It was just people making fun of each other or posting unflattering pictures. BORING! But then my husband figured something out: posting full names and job names really scared people and can potentially disrupt their lives. So exciting!"
Then, I discovered that Capriccioso was responsible for "outing" Trent Lott, apparently with fabricated emails from a purported homosexual lover. Did he decide to spoof the entire Ron Paul story, just to "disrupt the lives" of Ron Paul supporters? [See: Final+6 Footnote]
Update5: WorldNetDaily has confirmed the accuracy of this report. In a review of other candidate websites and news schedules, no such event exists.
Update6: Further evidence of Fox News’ apparent innocence (this time) is their sponsorship of the January 10th GOP Debate in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. It would make no sense to exclude Ron Paul on January 6th, but to reportedly include him in a debate four days later.
This report does not conflict with the RP press release, in which Kent Snyder states that they are "continuing to make inquiries" to determine why Paul was "apparently excluded." I totally agree with his reasons why Paul should be included in all broadcast debates.
Thanks to Mondoreb at Death by 1000 Papercuts for the compliment and some cute stock photos. This report, he writes,
"... is as accurate as we have been able to verify at this point in time. It may prove to contain errors, but we couldn't find any, based on what DBKP knows at this moment."
Apologies to Chris Brunner of Lew Rockwell for incorrectly identifying him as the author of the WorldNetDaily post, which is not attributed. Thanks to Jane Aitken, a huge RP booster in New Hampshire, who will be following up with the NHGOP.
Update7: NHGOP Press Secretary Barney Keller, in transit to New York City on his cell phone, says all candidates have been invited to attend and "say a few words" at the noon Sunday "Presidential Brunch" event, which may be covered by C-Span. Independent of that event, says Keller, Fox News has arranged for the use of a television studio at St. Anselm College for possible interviews with presidential candidates that evening. There will be no public audience and, to the best of his knowledge, all candidates have been invited. That session is totally under the control of Fox News, he says, which may be taped or done as a live broadcast. Awaiting return call from Fox VP John Moody. [12/30/07 02:30 pm PT]
FINAL UPDATE: See my comments below [12/30/07 8:00pm PT] and my new article on the topic.
Final+1: NHGOP Chairman Fergus Cullen has finally issued a rather artfully worded statement saying:
"The level playing field requires that all candidates be given an equal opportunity to participate – not just a select few determined by the media prior to any votes being cast."
Final+2: The Associated Press now reports that Fox won't be using the studios at St. Anselm College, but rather a "souped-up bus" with limited space. According to AP, Fox only "invited candidates who had received double-digit support in recent polls," presumably its own.
Final+3: ABC News has at least released its criteria for including candidates in the day-previous January 5th debates, where Paul appears to qualify [Fundraising is not one of them].
Final+4: After a week of virtual silence and artful dodging, NHGOP Chairman Fergus Cullen has released a clear statement:
"The New Hampshire Republican Party believes Congressmen Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter should be included in the FOX forum on Sunday evening. Our mutual efforts to resolve this difference have failed.
While we understand that FOX News continues to move forward it is with regret, the New Hampshire Republican Party hereby withdraws as a partner in this forum."Fox responded with one sentence:
"We look forward to presenting a substantive forum which will serve as the first program of its kind this election season"
Final+5: Manchester, NH station MCAM-TV will be broadcasting a live Ron Paul one-hour townhall meeting concurrent with the Fox broadcast, simulcast on the web.
Final+6: Rob Capriccioso. denies that Katrina Morgan is any relation and her blog entry has been deleted from the WordPress site.
©2007 William Westmiller, all rights reserved. You must have written permission from the author in order to republish this work.
Published: Saturday, December 29, 2007
Last modified: Monday, February 4, 2008
The views expressed in this article are those of William Westmiller only and do not represent the views of Nolan Chart, LLC or its affiliates. William Westmiller is solely responsible for the contents of this article and is not an employee or otherwise affiliated with Nolan Chart, LLC in his/her role as a columnist.
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Reader Comments:
Posted By: Sandra
Date: 2007-12-29 21:32:24
That doesn't explain why the official campaign made complaints about it on their website. Candidates are all referring to the Jan 5 and 6 debates.
Posted By: Sandra
Date: 2007-12-29 21:38:53
OK Nolanchart, you are the one who jumped the gun. Your info is FALSE!!!!!!!!
Posted By: BufordTJustice
Date: 2007-12-29 21:41:31
Well, be that as it may, I will not send an apology letter to Fox News for the letter I sent this morning threatened to boycott all products they shill for. I still refuse to watch that channel.
Â
Posted By: Roman Krajewski
Date: 2007-12-29 21:43:15
I believe your article to be untrue. While there may not be a "debate" on the 6th, there is a televised "forum." I think you have the two confused.
Posted By: Mathew
Date: 2007-12-29 21:46:17
I will not buy this until it has been fully confirmed!
Posted By: matt hylland
Date: 2007-12-29 21:47:52
It's not a debate, it's a forum. So yes, there is no debate on January 6th, but there is a forum. Like schmeisser said, I'm pretty sure the NH GOP and St. Anselm's College know whether or not there is such an event, and Ron Paul wouldn't make the accusation on Fox news lightly, without actually being sure of the event's existence!
This event is confirmed by the college, NH GOP and Fox News. THIS is bad reporting!
Posted By: Iam
Date: 2007-12-29 21:49:30
Posted By: Aaron Walker
Date: 2007-12-29 21:50:37
William,
The link to the December 16th Union article still leaves some room for doubt on whether or not there is going to be a Republican Forum on January 6th. Fergus Cullen is shown in the final paragraph as saying that "he still wants to host a forum". Isn't it possible that Cullen has pulled off such an event that Fox News is going to carry on the 6th??
I have contacts directly with sources very close to the campaign and the family and this "exclusion" is very real in their minds.
Do you have any statements directly from Cullen saying that there in fact IS NOT going to be a Republican round table forum on the 6th?
Thank You,
Aaron Walker
Fort Worth, Texas
Posted By: Bit2Right
Date: 2007-12-29 21:52:00
Perhaps the reason it was so easily accepted and so rapidly passed on was the fact that it was so believeable.
My call to Best Buy was worth the 15 minute wait.
Fellow hound dogs, do NOT lose the scent of that FOX!
Posted By: Chris Brunner
Date: 2007-12-29 21:53:26
I haven't checked this out yet, but I can at least tell you this:
1) At least part of the chronology in this article seems to be incorrect
2) The article you linked to on LewRockwell.com links back to the official campaign, not the AP.
Posted By: matt
Date: 2007-12-29 21:54:08
It's not a debate, it's a forum. So yes, there is no debate on January 6th, but there is a forum. Like schmeisser said, I'm pretty sure the NH GOP and St. Anselm's College know whether or not there is such an event, and Ron Paul wouldn't make the accusation on Fox news lightly, without actually being sure of the event's existence!
Posted By: NH
Date: 2007-12-29 21:55:13
Now I'm really confused. I just spoke to the NH GOP today and they are working on getting Ron back into this nighttime debate on the 5th. This is in ADDITION to the brunch.I think sloppy reporting, late RSVPs and people thinking Ron was excluded has resulted in him actually being excluded.Will we ever know what really happened?
Posted By: iam
Date: 2007-12-29 21:57:24
11 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state‘s first-in-the-nation primary.
"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters‘ appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.
Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H.. The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.
Posted By: Becky Augello
Date: 2007-12-29 21:57:30
It is not a debate, it is called a round table discussion after.
Posted By: matt hylland
Date: 2007-12-29 21:57:48
http://www.onelocalnews.com/newhopecourier/stories1/index.php?action=fullnews&id=111772
OP candidates to meet at NH forum
Staff and agencies
27 December, 2007
11 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state‘s first-in-the-nation primary.
"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters‘ appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.
Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H.. The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.
Posted By: Jack
Date: 2007-12-29 21:57:52
>"Fast news is sometimes 'bad' news."
And unfair news is always bad news. Fox deserves no apology. There is no excuse for the disrespectful and poor treatment they have shown to our candidate and by extension, us. Is it any wonder then why we would be on a hair-trigger alert to their shennigans?
Posted By: devils.advocate
Date: 2007-12-29 21:58:02
Like everyone else posting... I hate fox news anyway... if this article was true, with fox news it was still so easy to believe...
If this article is FALSE... I too will email all the sponsors of Fox and complain... enough is enough... unfair and unbalanced (and unpatriotic)
Posted By: Dave
Date: 2007-12-29 22:04:31
That's OK! Fox is still a pice of crap. I saw one of their lames doing a hatchet job on the good doctor yesterday. Some democrap talking head actually stood her ground and stood up for the Doc. Their ears may be burning tomorrow when they listen to their email......
Posted By: riunite
Date: 2007-12-29 22:07:25
hmm.. sounds so fishy.. someone must be messing with our usual info channels..part of the establishment tactic? confuse the Paul troops?
Posted By: Anne Webster
Date: 2007-12-29 22:07:53
I won't beleive it until I see it on the campaign website !
Posted By: Chris Brunner
Date: 2007-12-29 22:08:58
"I think sloppy reporting, late RSVPs and people thinking Ron was excluded has resulted in him actually being excluded."
That's absolutely absurd. Please quit trying to spread this rumors. Ron Paul's exclusion is NOT the result of a blog post that happened after the fact.
Posted By: SC
Date: 2007-12-29 22:20:11
My question is, in whose "Washington blog' did this story begin? I want to read the original blog, and I'd like to know if the writer is a Ron Paul supporter or not. Does anyone have that information?
Posted By: Stnkdtktor
Date: 2007-12-29 22:23:27
Someone should tell FOX radio affiliate WOAI that this is just a rumor because they were reporting it as fact on Friday morning. I suppose it is possible that their radio reporting on Ron Paul is just as biased as their TV reporting.
Posted By: internet tough guy
Date: 2007-12-29 22:30:01
GOP candidates to meet at NH forum
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/ap_po/on_the2008_trail_7
WASHINGTON - The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary.
The forum, where the candidates will be questioned by Fox New Channel's Chris Wallace, will be held a day after ABC holds back to back Democratic and Republican presidential debates.
"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters' appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.
Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson.
Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H.. The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.
Posted By: HDR
Date: 2007-12-29 22:30:13
What do you mean there was nothing scheduled on the 6th? http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iNxTApa2sQRu0Xx99P3jt2bEXw7gD8TQ2N282
See for yourself from the AP news wire. Sounds like you're just trying to stir shit up.
Posted By: AA
Date: 2007-12-29 22:33:13
William, what are your sources? How do you know? Or is it your opinion?
Posted By: Westmiller
Date: 2007-12-29 22:35:33
Bit2Right: ""... the fact that it was so believeable."
Of course, I agree. This mistake doesn't mitigate the persistent abuse that Ron Paul has suffered at FoxNews. They deserve to be "slapped" for what they have done, not for what they never did.PS: Please don't post articles repeating the original reporting error. Just post a link to here at those sites:
Posted By: HDR
Date: 2007-12-29 22:41:06
This page is incorrect, even the AP reported that there is a forum on the 6th: [link edited for length]
Posted By: t quigly
Date: 2007-12-29 22:46:43
If this was so cut-and-dried, that there was no 'forum', the NH GOP should have issued a press release clearing up the misunderstanding. Since they didn't, we'll have to wait to find out the truth. Ferguson whined that his fone lines were melting & his staff overstressed from the onslaught of complaints. That being true, it was his duty to clarify whether or not the forum was on. Since he still hasn't done that, it's still a question. And Faux still hasn't issued a press release to clear up the matter. These people are responsible for the continuing mass confusion.
The times they are a changin'Â
Ron Paul 2008 !!Â
Posted By: Mark
Date: 2007-12-29 22:53:18
I still think Ron Paul would do much better by planning his own event next door to the debate instead of attending the debate and only allowed 6 to 10 minutes of air time to answer questions. I can't stand the Faux anymore and since I have stopped watching the program I have been healed of a savere case of depression. Go Ron Paul!
Posted By: mondoreb
Date: 2007-12-29 22:55:51
This is the most accurate account of the whole affair I've read all day.
You did a great job of stating a succint timeline of what actually happened and why. We contacted people today at Fox, the RonPaul2008 and NH GOP and few knew exactly what was going on.
After trying to unravel everyone's story for the better part of the day, we finally packed it in and said we'll sort it out in the morning.
You saved us all that! Good job!
Our efforts here: Ron Paul Not Excluded by Fox, But NH GOP. [link edited for length]. Your story still has us wondering: Why didn't the NH GOP Press spokesman just state the above?
Anyway, great job!
Posted By: Avidreader
Date: 2007-12-29 22:56:05
All FOX or NH GOP had to say, "We are not having a debate on Jan 6."  If there is no debate then why don't they say it? Is that too much to ask?Â
Posted By: Gerl
Date: 2007-12-29 23:00:57
BOSTON GLOBE HAS ARTICLE QUOTING PAUL REACTING TO THISHEALDINES: PAUL EXCLUDED FROM FOX FORUM IN NH: Paul says "they are scared of me"[link edited for length]
Posted By: Jim Carter
Date: 2007-12-29 23:01:30
I went to the Foxnews website and typed in upcoming New Hampshire debates and there was nothing indicating any future debates or forums.;
Â
Posted By: Mark
Date: 2007-12-29 23:08:37
Who jumped the gun? An AP story on the Jan. 6 debate was released Dec. 27: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071227/ap_po/on_the2008_trail_7
Where did you get this information? Maybe YOU jumped the gun? The NH GOP offices have already been bombarded with emails on this issue and they haven't said anything about it being canceled as far as I know. Looks like you are either confused or trying to spread false information.
Posted By: Gee
Date: 2007-12-29 23:11:19
One way or the other ,I'm STILL going to liquidate my options in this effed up orginazation.
Posted By: Ryan Pierce
Date: 2007-12-29 23:12:36
This article is WRONG. There IS a Fox Forum on the 6th. I confirmed it with FOX NEWS HEADQUARTERS. It is not just some internet research - I talked to Fox News staff themselves. There is a forum on the 6th, on Chris Wallace's show. Ron Paul has not been invited.
Posted By: Fabian
Date: 2007-12-29 23:24:35
There won't be a debate, but there will be a "forum", and Ron has been excluded from it.
Posted By: t quigly
Date: 2007-12-29 23:31:54
Possibly this latest 'RonPaul-was-not-excluded is an attempt to 'spread misinformation'.
Whatever ... - this has backfired on Faux in 2 ways;
1. Investors are divesting of Faux stock, big time, and
2. Ron Paul donations have averaged $1,000 to $2,000/hour for the past few days (I've been tracking it). But tonight, 12/29 between 8:30 and 10:30 mountain time, the donations have averaged $7,000 to $8,000/hour.Â
Posted By: John
Date: 2007-12-29 23:33:54
Whatever you call it, there is a debate/forum/round table/circus on the 6th and Ron Paul was excluded. This article seems to want to spread misinformation the other way, and make it seem like in some way that there is no harm done in NOT inviting Ron Paul...the real issue.
Posted By: jim
Date: 2007-12-29 23:50:10
I promise to never visit this site or watch fox news again.
Posted By: Dave
Date: 2007-12-29 23:51:51
Sean Hannity continuously refuses to even mention Ron Paul's name when he talks about the candidates on his radio program and bans discussions of him from his forum. Other so called conservative sites ban Paul from being discussed. Iowan groups banned him from participating in their forum discussions. What conclusions are Ron Paul supporters supposed to arrive at with all the various ways these people censor or subvert the democratic process.
Posted By: Tracker
Date: 2007-12-30 00:18:59
Posted By: blue
Date: 2007-12-30 00:55:35
I believe this article is completely inaccurate. Please retract it or else contact Chris Brunner or ANYONE else who has been involved in investigating this issue over the past 72 hours.
Fox had a FORUM scheduled, senior executives at Fox implicitly acknowledged the exclusion over the phone when I talked to them. They also had it listed on their web site. If they claim otherwise, then they are liars.
You need to retract this article or else do further investigation of the facts and update the information.
Posted By: Westmiller
Date: 2007-12-30 00:57:53
Sandra: "That doesn't explain why the official campaign made complaints about it on their website."
Please read the article and recent updates. The official campaign site says they "continue to make inquiries" into the "apparent" exclusion. They believed the AP story.
"Your info is FALSE!!!!!!!!"
All of the information is true, to the best of my knowledge. I've provided links to all of my sources and explained that the AP story was simply a re-write of the blog posting, which now appears to have been a malicious fabrication. The subsequent copies of that blog post in other media are not evidence that anything I've reported is wrong.Â
Posted By: B
Date: 2007-12-30 01:20:32
You speculated in your article that there was a scheduling conflict so Ron Paul never confirmed. The AP article you also cite shows that a scheduling issue never existed because it gives the time of the original (canceled) event. You should have consulted Ron Paul's campaign, but you didn't. Your sources contradict each other and campaign HQ, and you should retract that.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=751502&posted=1#post751502
Posted By: Alex Wallenwein
Date: 2007-12-30 01:41:32
And where, pray, are YOUR sources?
I see nothing that substantiates what you write here.
Posted By: Matthew Hays
Date: 2007-12-30 01:51:18
If Fox News was as fair and balanced from the get go with Ron Paul everyone might have second guessed this story and discounted it as a misstake. So this is just back lash towards their time tested bias.
Posted By: Fascist Nation
Date: 2007-12-30 02:22:36
In many ways this makes sense. In some ways it does not.
I do not understand why the NH GOP would not simply say there is no debate. Likewise FOX who I am sure is melting down from the onslaught.
It still does not completely explain the AP story. But is does explain the scheduling problem with putting two debates on back to back in the same town a day apart. I rqther figured FOX planned on having their roundtable either before or after the ABC debate on the 5th and broadcast the tape a day later. But since one site stated it would be a 8 PM live broadcast on the 6th....
Still I enjoued seeing the R3VOLution rally. And I wonder what FOX's advertisers think.
Posted By: Darryl Schmitz
Date: 2007-12-30 03:13:02
Perhaps in the name of truth in advertising, the NH GOP and Fox News should bill it as "Forum for Pro-Iraq War Presidential Candidates"
Posted By: Conrad
Date: 2007-12-30 03:19:43
I don't think it was rash of anyone to jump on Fox News or the NH GOP for this, most people consider the Associated Press to be a reliable source and this was reported in an AP press release on December 27: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iNxTApa2sQRu0Xx99P3jt2bEXw7gD8TQ2N282 However, given the fact that the Ron Paul campaign is merely "looking into" the matter, and given possible confusion in discussions between this Jan 6 Forum and the Jan 5 ABC "Debate", we might all be well-served to withhold judgment until the campaign HQ figures out what's going on and issues a definitive press release.
Posted By: Henry
Date: 2007-12-30 04:03:26
I think Fox has been getting hammered something fierce over the last 24 hours so there trying to fix it. They will try to say that it was a big misunderstanding and that Ron Paul is invited. I believe the original story period.
Posted By: TyredUvBS
Date: 2007-12-30 04:44:50
This story is irresponsible and needs to be taken down. There is definitely a nationally televised discussion in NH on Jan 6, 2008 and Ron Paul is excluded from this forum. It is not a DEBATE but a FORUM nonetheless. This will give the 5 handpicked candidates an advantage and Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter a disadvangtage because of the exposure and how close it is to the primary. The question needs to be put to the NH Rep party not Fox news (this time). Fox news is broadcasting it but the party decided to have only a 5 member panel. Depending on the poll he is coming in 4th or 5th so he should have been included. Any way you look at it , it's still unfair, dirty politics as usual.
Posted By: BrokenCrystal
Date: 2007-12-30 05:26:28
"Did he decide to spoof the entire Ron Paul story, just to "disrupt the lives" of Ron Paul supporters?"
It would/did/does only make us stronger.
Posted By: Jay
Date: 2007-12-30 05:38:44
Please take this post down... your post is WRONG. There is a televized forum on Jan 6th and Ron Paul is being excluded. Make your voice known people, let faux and fiends know check :http://politics.reddit.com/info/6449h/comments/
Posted By: Cadderly
Date: 2007-12-30 06:13:03
Why do you try to make excuses for the controlled news media? They, along with every mainstream candidate and every person who is vested in the current status quo establishment in the United States deserves a new rendition of Bastille day. They all deserve to have the guillotine claim their bloody prize. It's time to drop all pretense of civility with these people and show them that they and their influence and what they would have for this nation and it's people, and their status quo vision for the future are unwanted and if they persist we will smite their ruin upon the ground and use them to grease the wheels of liberty.
Posted By: blue
Date: 2007-12-30 07:19:23
What on Earth are you talking about?
You say "Update5: WorldNetDaily, in a post by Chris Brunner, has confirmed the accuracy of this report."  Chris Brunner does *not* confirm the accuracy of this report! He has factual disputes with this report! Chris Brunner's site is http://chrisbrunner.com.  Â
 Please, provide proof that Chris Brunner has verified the accuracy of this article, or wrote the Worldnetdaily piece, because I just don't believe you. It looks to me like the WorldNetDaily piece is a smear editorial, and it certainly has nothing to do with Brunner.
Posted By: Chris Brunner
Date: 2007-12-30 07:58:09
What the hell is going on? I am Chris Brunner. I posted nothing of the kind on WorldNetDaily. Feel free to verify my email address. It's the same one I blog with on LewRockwell.com.
chris.brunner@gmail.comÂ
Posted By: Mike 4 Paul
Date: 2007-12-30 08:11:47
Do I look that stupid? Funny NH GOP & FOX didn't tell anybody the event was cancelled or all the media missed it.
The harder you pull the tighter it gets.
Right on Ron.Â
Posted By: blue
Date: 2007-12-30 09:38:09
Ah okay, so William Westmiller, you remove the reference from update5 to Chris Brunner "confirming the accuracy" of this article like it never happened. Who the hell are you? Why did you post such obvious lies about Chris Brunner (a Lew Rockwell columnist)? You know he did not confirm your story because you talked to him on the phone! This is obvious blatant deceit. Chris Brunner thought this article was nonsense, despite whatever tenuous basis it has in reality.
 Sorry, we are not stupid You, AP, and Fox all have some BIG explaining to do.
Â
Â
Posted By: stephen
Date: 2007-12-30 09:39:31
I just googled this subject, and this is the ONLY website out there that is saying this. ONE WEBSITE?? You are not mis-informed, you did this on purpose. Wow, the fear of Ron Paul is so bad you have to make up lies? You must support the white house, they lie alot too.
Posted By: Carl
Date: 2007-12-30 11:51:18
William, sorry you are getting so much gruff for this, I know you're just trying to figure it all out. I appreciate your approach to this matter, although your title comes off a bit raw and factual and may be the reason why the remarks are coming in. Please keep up the good work and let us know what you find out.
In my mind we have until tomorrow to work it out. Monday is going to be.. interesting :)
Posted By: chris lawton
Date: 2007-12-30 11:52:27
After researching St. Anselm website: http://www.anselm.edu/nhiop/news+and+events/news/2007-12-12-nhprimaryweek.htm
I believe we've been had!
Note: The movie on Jan. 6th!
Can anyone find any reference on any other candidates site scheduling them to attend?
hmmmm .... some serious explaining needs to occur!
Didn't the RP campaign HQ verify this, prior to a press release?
Who's accountable here?
It's like a chinese puzzle ...
Posted By: angela
Date: 2007-12-30 12:00:51
man, talk about Irony.... guess YOU should check your facts first eh? funny
Â
ronpaul2008.com
Posted By: clintonius
Date: 2007-12-30 12:27:47
Faux tried to get away with excluding Dr. Paul and got busted. It's business as usual for them. The information superhighway spread the word and exposed Murdoch's goebellian network for what it is. The people have spoken and the people will not be be silenced!
Posted By: Westmiller
Date: 2007-12-30 12:35:11
mondoreb:"Why didn't the NH GOP Press spokesman just state the above?"
The NHGOP Chairman was quoted as stating the televised debate had been cancelled, reported correctly by the Union Leader on December 16th. Their December 27th report was a jumble of information, mixing up the two events, which caused the confusion.
Others: "What are your sources?"
All sources are highlighted with bold links. Just click on them for the original source information.
Be careful to notice posting dates. Most recent news stories are duplicates of the AP report, which apparently originated with Big Head DC and the Union Leader's December 27th jumble.I've provided all the links to verify what I've reported, but I have NOT received (nor has anyone) any response to my direct queries to the Paul campaign or NHGOP. I suspect they are on weekend or extended holiday vacations. I'll post updates as soon as I receive them.
NOTE: I am an avid Ron Paul supporter, not a Faux News shill. I share all of the anger and disgust with Fox's malicious tactics. I just don't want excess energy to be mis-directed in a way that would bring discredit on the campaign.
I consider Jane Aitkin a friend and applaud the efforts of Chris Brunner to correct a perceived injustice. They believe that there is/was a forum from which Paul was excluded. I just haven't seen any evidence that any such event currently exists. I'm only interested in the truth and would be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
PS: For those who wonder, my bio is at westmiller.com which notes that I was a professional radio/TV news reporter and anchor for ten years. I don't make up stories.
Â
Posted By: DigitalBob
Date: 2007-12-30 12:48:48
Ron Paul is already scheduled at the Liberty Forum at the same time as the Fox Forum on Jan. 6th. He can't be in two places at once!
http://www.freestateproject.org/libertyforum
- freestateproject dot org slash libertyforum
- nashuatelegraph dot com
- nhprimary dot com
I think someone needs to do some followup before calling for the head of Rupert Murdoch over this.
Â
Posted By: william
Date: 2007-12-30 12:54:30
WASHINGTON - The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state‘s first-in-the-nation primary.
"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters‘ appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.
Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H.. The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.
Posted By: bkspider
Date: 2007-12-30 13:22:27
Yeah what ever, I want Rupert Murdocks head regardless of who's right, that man has way to much media control!
The TRUTH sets us all free and faux news has lead us to tyranny and fascism. RON PAUL!
Posted By: Woz
Date: 2007-12-30 15:47:20
Come on Digital Bob. Don't throw a wrench into the frenzied hate-fest. Paul has a very tiny, but very loyal and vocal following. If he had any chance at all of getting the Republican nomination he would win at least one state primary. However, he will not. The people will speak at the primaries and they will not even mention Paul (i.e. vote for him). When it comes to popularity with the people talk is cheap. Let's see Paul win at least one primary. Just one. That's all I ask.
Posted By: muckemuck
Date: 2007-12-30 17:00:32
The Baltimore Sun just had a post about this..
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/ron_paul_indeed_outfoxed_for_n.html
Â
Posted By: Tiffany
Date: 2007-12-30 17:16:23
Has Fox News Excluded Ron Paul? pt. 2
On December 27, the Associated Press reported: "The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary." Later in the article, the AP stated: "Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson."
On the evening of December 28, Jared Chicoine and Jordan Brown of our New Hampshire campaign staff, met in person with Fergus Cullen the New Hampshire GOP chairman to discuss whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited to participate in the presidential candidates forum scheduled for January 6. Mr. Cullen confirmed there will be an event on January 6, but he could not confirm whether or not Dr. Paul would be invited. We also learned the event would not be a debate with an audience, as has been held previously, but instead would be a forum in a closed studio with the candidates questioned only by Chris Wallace of Fox News.
A few hours after that meeting, we contacted Fox News seeking clarification. Later that night, we issued a press release while waiting to hear from Fox News.
On December 29, the Baltimore Sun featured a report by Jason George. Mr. George reported, "Calls and emails to Fox News spokespersons by the Tribune were not returned Saturday evening.
"An official at the New Hampshire GOP, which is co-sponsoring the event with Fox, said that Paul might still be included, but the planning for the debate was still coming together and it was ultimately Fox's call."
As of late afternoon today (December 30), we have nothing more to report.
Kent Snyder
Chairman, Ron Paul 2008
Posted By: Frank Bank
Date: 2007-12-30 17:43:36
Fox Failure To Operate in Public Interest. Take Action Link-----> http://ronpaul2008.freewebspace.com/index.html
Posted By: john
Date: 2007-12-30 17:49:46
Let me get this straight.The man(RON PAUL)will be in the debate in NH but excluded from sort of panal discussion at this forum where men will be fed bannas for answers an the audience inturn claps with approval
Posted By: Woz
Date: 2007-12-30 18:28:57
The other distant last place finishers will not be present either.
Posted By: 1440 minutes
Date: 2007-12-30 19:27:04
What an extremely confusing article. For the 12/30 PM status report from the campaign, go to the campaign's site. href=http://www.ronpaul2008.com/>http://www.ronpaul2008.com/There *will* be a televised roundtable discussion in a studio (no audience), and Dr. Paul has *not* received an invitation to participate. Fox News has yet to return calls to the Ron Paul campaign. Contrary to the original version of this article, and based on the official campaign's status report, it appears that Dr. Paul and campaign employees have acted prudently on this issue.
Posted By: connie mack
Date: 2007-12-30 19:28:20
i will be happy when this story sorts itself out. at this point it still looks like something fishy is going on. yesterday i tried to email st. anselm college with my objections to their hosting this event with out ron paul. all of the email addresses that i got directly from the college website were returned as undeliverable, a permenent error. it would seem that their server had to have some filter installed to block all ron paul emails. how quick can something like that be set up? someone else try it and see if you can get one through.
Posted By: jp
Date: 2007-12-30 20:16:47
if anyone made this confusing, its the idiot chicken little's in the paul campaign. Fox News does have him scheduled 4 days later in SC for debate for crying out loud!
Posted By: Woz
Date: 2007-12-30 20:24:41
Did any of the other third tier candidates receive an invitation?
Posted By: Uriah
Date: 2007-12-30 22:29:41
Its time Ron take the gloves off if he is excuded. With these thing against him he needs to inform people how he feel about it and what he'd like us to do.
Posted By: Westmiller
Date: 2007-12-30 23:09:58
    1440 minutes writes: "... it appears that Dr. Paul and campaign employees have acted prudently on this issue."
I agree. I'm only disappointed that the campaign staff didn't confirm the closed studio panel and (still) pending invitation status after the meeting with Mr. Cullen. This article and each update was sent to campaign staff before it was posted, with a request for confirmation. No response was received.
Given the confusing mixture of reports on multiple events, I think my skepticism about the initial AP report was justified, given the circumstances and lack of confirmation or denial.
In hindsight, I may have put too much credence in the clear, concise report of Mr. Cullen's words on December 16th, which was what prompted the headline and lead paragraphs.
I hope Fox retracts its earlier position promptly. If not, I think Paul supporters have a task that needs doing.
Again, I regret any inconvenience I may have caused the campaign or the thousands of supporters who were seeking the truth with me.
Â
Posted By: jblosser
Date: 2007-12-31 00:59:43
Can someone get prison planet to update their copy of this article with the correct info?
Posted By: Future4u
Date: 2007-12-31 02:25:48
Even if this has been a misunderstanding of facts , it was high time that FOX news receive some flack for the bias they've shown from the very beginning of the political season . Bill O'Riely and Sean Hannity need to be shown what it feels like to be ignored . They certainly deserve it . What's your problem " WOZ " ? You should go tell your mommy that she is looking for you .
Posted By: Freedom08
Date: 2007-12-31 03:23:43
How about a boycott of nolanchart? Their sloppy reporting and rush to judgement has done more to derail the boycott movement than anything FOX news could have done.
Posted By: Johnny Verdorben Clark County, NV
Date: 2007-12-31 08:01:28
Did you hear about Rupert Murdoch's reaction when he heard that Ron Paul supporters were selling their shares?
Ron Paul supporters: We're so mad we're gonna.....we're gonna.....we're gonna SELL ALL OUR NEWSCORP STOCK !!!!!!
Murdoch: Yawwwwwwn. Ho hum. I hope you make a few bucks. Oh, by the way, Ron Paul still aint invited. Cheers. Bye.
- - - - - -
If I were running the Ron Paul campaign I'd rent a local Red Roof Inn conference room, or a movie theater, and buy a hundred pizzas. Throw a free pizza party. Do it at the exact same time the "republicans" are having their closed forum. Dr Paul would be at the party to mingle and answer questions. See which event gets more action.
The whole thing would only cost a couple grand. He could pay for it out of his own pocket and not use campaign funds.
Posted By: Damail
Date: 2007-12-31 09:12:05
Oh, this is too funny. Some of you are happy to boycott Fox News over this incident, even though the incident didn't even happen? And some of you are apparently forgetting that Ron Paul has a scheduling conflict, anyway. It's funny watching his supporters (which includes neo-Nazis, Holocaust deniers and 9/11 conspiracy nuts) go into mouth-foaming mode.
Posted By: McAn
Date: 2007-12-31 11:21:40
Posted By: Damail
Date: 2007-12-31 09:12:05"Some of you are happy to boycott Fox News over this incident, even though the incident didn't even happen?"
Apparently it did, and is going to, happen.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/ron_paul_indeed_outfoxed_for_n.html
Posted By: Woz
Date: 2007-12-31 11:27:05
This late in the season it's time to start focusing on the teams that will make the playoffs, which is most likely why Paul and the other third tier candidates will not be present.
Posted By: cyoung
Date: 2007-12-31 13:13:14
Let me get this straight. You just derailed our boycott with this. Right? I suggest you put that in bold face at the top of the article. Not buried amongst the comments.
Note that based on the trolls all over this site, I'm not surprised this happened here.
Posted By: O.C.
Date: 2007-12-31 16:10:27
You manage to put all your updates up in the main piece EXCEPT for the most important one where you RETRACT your sloppy reporting. You make that a little footnote buried in a long list of comments. Seems you still desire the confusion to swirl about. How does that help Dr. Paul or his supporters? I must say, I can't recall reading a single decent article on this site, and you sir are one of the worst. Either put the retraction in red at the very top or just admit you are a neocon flunky trying to hurt the campaign.
Posted By: Alex Wallenwein
Date: 2007-12-31 17:18:54
MR. WESTMILLER:
 Your original article, yes, the one entitled "Ron Paul NOT Excluded from NH Debate" - the one that made everyone believe that this was all a false alarm and that there was "NO" debate or forum scheduled has cost a lot of Ron Paul supporters endless amounts of time in getting the story (that was right all along) finally right - despite your mistake. I myself have spent countless hours veryfying everything. Now, you give phony "updates" designed to make it look like you had never screwed the story up in the first place.Â
Please reinstate the orignal story with a prominent retraction, and then add all your other obfuscations later so people get the correct impression. If you need it, I can supply you with the original text. It went around in tons of emails and is still extant.
Posted By: Scott
Date: 2007-12-31 21:08:23
I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about and I am more convinvced than ever the RuPaul supporters are crazier than a outhouse rat. Happy New Year
Posted By: Jane Aitken
Date: 2007-12-31 22:41:25
The schedule of all three events has been on my website since Dec 18th.http://www.nhlibertycalendar.org/promotional.phpThe Union Leader wrote something very confusing, the AP wrote something that included the RSVPs but never mentioned the word 'excluded', it was just assumed.The latest info is on that website above and the Daily Paul has the presser from NH GOP stating that they are trying their best to right this wrong.Bottom line: FOX will be the bad guys if this doesn't turn out our way.
Posted By: Jane Aitken
Date: 2007-12-31 22:51:55
My comment did not seem to make it on here.View the full schedule here, complete with a scanned invite to the brunch that morning.There are three events that day, always have been.http://www.nhlibertycalendar.org/promotional.php
Posted By: Ciel
Date: 2008-01-01 09:58:54
1) Ron Paul would have never made the statement he did about Fox News if there had been no merit.
2) Kent Snyder said he was trying to get to the bottom of the matter with Fox News (losely translated).
3) News of boycotts and stock dumps filled the blogosphere.
4) Confusing and denial articles began to crop up, (like this one), across the internet
IMHO, it seems obvious that these articles were indeed a deliberate coup to buy time to protect Fox and it's interests, while confusing attempts to have Ron Paul included in the forum.
Ron Paul's statement that they wouldn't win this skirmish was likely a little much for the sly dubious Fox. They had to buy some time for whatever dastardly deeds they could devise to try to outfox us. Mass confusion always works.
You and others like you may have slightly interupted the flow, but you'll likely see the avalance that ensures from the snare.
Posted By: Woz
Date: 2008-01-01 10:01:55
I personally have nothing against Paul. I would gladly vote for him over any of the Dem candidates. However, we have to be realistic. He has absolutely no chance of getting the nomination. He's had over a year and still polls at the bottom around the country. The five guys invited to the event are the only ones with a chance. Have to accept reality folks.
Posted By: Ciel
Date: 2008-01-01 11:45:30
That's exactly what the establishment wants you to believe. If you wish to remain among the sheeple and be lead by the nose with their propaganda then so be it. What you percieve as "reality", is a distortion at best.
Anyone who has been paying attention realizes this is not a new circumstance. Ron Paul because of his opposing views with this establishment has been continually targeted for exclusion and censorship, from the beginning, while those with like minded views have been included. Doesn't that make you question anything?
Since you cite the importance of polls, why would he be excluded instead of Thompson whose poll numbers are reportedly lower than Ron Paul's? Doesn't that prompt questions of injustice to you?
If someone commits an injustice against you personally do you just roll over and give up?
If this is still a free nation and votes make the decision, you're likely to be very surprised with the outcome.
You can just follow the dictum and direction that whom voters would prefer as their candidate is a waste of your vote and place it for some evil or lesser evil as they wish.
Your choice, your decision, or let them continue to make it for you.
Â
Posted By: Jane Aitken
Date: 2008-01-01 12:21:50
Regarding Jonny Verdorben's post with a call to email or call the NH GOP: Please read this article first.And please refrain from bothering the NH GOP -- they are working FOR us not against us.
Posted By: Westmiller
Date: 2008-01-02 01:54:42
Alex Wallenwein: "... you give phony "updates" designed to make it look like you had never screwed the story up in the first place."
There was nothing incorrect in the original, nor anything phony in the updates. The problem was vague terminology and a reluctance of sources to speak clearly, if at all. As information became available, I've corrected some terminology in the article and explained it in the updates.
For a recap, which explains all of those problems and discusses the issue of what to do about it, see my new article:
Ron Paul: Fair and Balanced
http://www.nolanchart.com/article825.html
Posted By: Edward
Date: 2008-01-02 06:39:29
Why in the hell would anyone that supports Ron Paul own NWS, News Corp. stock to begin with? You should be buying commodities, especially oil, food, gold, silver, uranium and related companies. I can't imagine anyone buying or owning News Corp.Â
Posted By: Woz
Date: 2008-01-02 07:40:42
The "reality" is going to hit you in the face starting this week when the people have their say. Then we will really see who is living in Fantasyland.
Posted By: Dave
Date: 2008-01-03 22:55:37
FOX News needs to include Ron Paul in that forum this Sunday and exclude Giuliani. Their justification was that Ron Paul was running single-digits in the polls. No longer true. Rudy is the 3% single-digit man now.
Posted By: Westmiller
Date: 2008-01-04 19:56:51
Woz: "... we will really see who is living in Fantasyland."
Ron Paul exceed expectations. See my review:
So Goes Iowa
http://www.nolanchart.com/article947.html
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-01-05 11:18:00
Also, we need to do the same thing to CNN now because they failed to air an interview that Larry King did with RP the night before the Iowa Caucus. Seems like they just wanted to waste an hour of the good doctors time on the eve of the caucus, and maybe try to demoralize him somewhat. Either that, or perhaps the interview went "too well" for him so they decided not to air it-- judge for yourself though- please watch it on You Tube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=s08RJ2_o_MM Notice how CNN interviewed Dr. Paul as he stood out in the freezing cold in Iowa for a whole damn hour. I don't know about you, but I'd say CNN has earned the same pole axing we just gave Fox. Lets dump their stock and nuke THEIR advertisers too? Anyone made a list of advertisers or put together a list of CNN contacts?
Please go here Democracy In Action and take a minute to push for passage of S.2295 The Voter Confidence & Increased Accessability Act . This all important bill, which currently only has one Senate cosponsor, would require verifiable paper ballots be used in all elections to offset the enormous problem with riggable, hackable voting machines thats been so thoroughly identified by Bev Harris of http://www.blackboxvoting.org in this documentary: Hacking Democracy: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4463776866669054201
Please here to send mssg to Fox News so Ron Paul can be on their candidate forum on Sunday. It is OUTRAGEOUS that they want to exclude him two days before the New Hampshire Primary!!! [link edited for length]
Also, please take a moment to view this hard hitting statement from an Iraq War veteran who is commenting on the relative positions of Huckabee, McCain and Paul on the War: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uk-T46soz8
I felt deeply moved by what this soldier has to say. He asks us to consider how the soldiers feel when they see suits representing various corporate interests who are making megabucks off the war driving around on their bases in Iraq in $100,000. bulletproof limos while they're out patrolling on the perimeter getting blown to bits by IEDs.
He asks us how we would feel if some foreign country sent soldiers to America under false pretenses and removed our leader- then stayed for years. We for damn sure wouldn't like it. He then brings up the issue of Christianity. The Golden Rule.
Wow. Sure isn't hard to tell when you're hearing the TRUTH being spoken, is it? He is justifiably angry at McCain for presuming to speak for the troops in Iraq, and he's justifiably angry at Huckabee for the same reasons. As he says, the fact that Ron Paul gets the most donations from our troops should speak for itself. His views on how we should "act with honor" by bringing the troops home should be very widely heard.
It amazes me how stupid so many ordinary Americans are. They aren't seeing the whole chessboard. Sinclair Lewis said it best "When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross."
Amazing. The dollar is being intentionally tanked, our country is being intentionally destroyed from within by the Bilderbergers and CFR, we're being forced into a North American Union dictatorship, our Constitution is being yanked out from under us- and blind myopic fools are letting it happen because they're buying into this BS that we must fight "Islamofascists" We're the Fascists!!! We're now digging our own graves allowing the Neocon traitors to destroy our country and our soldiers are returning home and committing suicide in record numbers [link edited for length]
We MUST educate our neighbors about whats going on. PLEASE help canvas door to door! Also show people the film
END GAME [link edited for length] The life you save could be your own. To get campaign materials go here [link edited for length] or join your local Meetup group which in many cases is able to get campaign materials for free http://ronpaul.meetup.com/
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-01-05 11:29:28
First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me. by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945WAKE UP AMERICA!!
Â
Posted By: Justafactsjack
Date: 2008-01-05 22:12:00
This will explain the why...
Posted By: JustaFactsJack
Date: 2008-01-05 22:23:37
err, here is the video link that will explain exactly why THE OWNERS of Fox would want to exclude Ron Paul... This very well done by Bill Moyers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA5z-quW2E8Â
Posted By: Rachel
Date: 2008-01-06 17:34:43
The New Hampshire Republican Party has withdrawn as a partner in the Fox Presidential Forum due to the exclusion of Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter. Yep, it's Fox and the corporate media attempting to silence Dr. Paul. See for yourself here - [Link edited for length]
Posted By: Russell Snow
Date: 2008-01-06 19:51:40
Ron Paul supporters broke the server for the Ron Paul event! :-) Go Ron Paul supporters! "DUE TO THE OVERWHELING INTEREST IN THE RON PAUL EVENT, YOU BROKE OUR SERVER, WATCH THE COMPLETE EVENT HERE TONIGHT!" http://www.mcam.org/
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-01-09 12:24:49
LHS Associated RIGGED The New Hampshire Primary: Ron Paul Robbed:Â Â Â Must DEMAND a Recount!
Please see this ad which ran in New Hampshire's Manchester Union Leader newspaper 2 days before the Primary: http://www.votefraud.org/ron_paul_NH_newspaper_2008.pdf It was an attempt to get poll watchers to watch the polls.
If you watched the New Hampshire primary results come in as I did, you would have noticed that the distribution of votes remained constant, with no change or fluctuation over the whole state, all night. In the real world- that doesn't happen. In the real world we could have expected sudden surges as one candidate pulled ahead as votes from some towns were tallied, but that didn't happen- the percentages stayed constant- a sure sign that the fix was in from the beginning.Jim Condit clearly spells out the problem we’re facing at www.votefraud.org Especially see these key articles in his archives http://www.votefraud.org/primer_archive_articles.html
In the town of Sutton, at least 3 people voted for Ron Paul, but their votes were not tallied http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2008/by_county/NH_GOP_0108.html?SITE=NPRELN&SECTION=POLITICSÂ yet check this out: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=82909
"My mom, aunt, and dad all voted for RP today in my hometown, My mom and aunt both work passing out ballots, and checking them off. I just looked at the politico map and it says their town has ZERO votes for Ron. Now i know that there isn't corruption on voting in that little town, so where they reported it must be. What do I do, anyone know???
Originally Posted by sstjean View Post
This was posted to ronpaul-801 tonight: "This town numbers are wrong wrong wrong on this map. I am from Sutton originally and my parents and one aunt all voted for Ron Paul today and Sutton says 0. So this is wrong. This is a town that had 20 people counting the ballots and I have no reason to believe that they cheated. Small town and I was born and raised there. The real numbers will come in by morning. The electronic machines in the big towns are the ones we have to worry about."
A YouTube video from Black Box Voting that you won't soon forget:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiiaBqwqkXs
THE CAT THAT CONTROLS NEW HAMPSHIRE ELECTION PROGRAMMING
John Silvestro and his small private business, LHS Associates, has
exclusive programming contracts for ALL New Hampshire voting machines,
which combined will count about 81 percent of the vote in the primary. And
as to Super Tuesday and beyond: Silvestro also has the programming
contracts for the states of Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Vermont.
Silvestro IS the New Hampshire chain of custody in New England -- Or at
least, a very large component in it.
Last fall, with the help of citizens like you, Black Box Voting began
working on "Chain of Custody" projects, in which we identified some of
the areas of concern that might affect many jurisdictions at once. First
on the list for the Northeast U.S. is LHS Associates, a vendor with
inside access to every memory card, as well as to the chips containing
the "brain" of the Diebold optical scan machines.
RARE VIDEO FOOTAGE
In an unusual confluence of available video, we obtained footage of
Silvestro grappling with Harri Hursti, the master hacker who had his way
with the Diebold optical scans in Leon County, Florida in the famous
exploit that was showcased in the film Hacking Democracy.
The exact same make, model and version hacked in the Black Box Voting
project in Leon County is used throughout New Hampshire, where about 45
percent of elections administrators hand count paper ballots at the
polling place, with the remaining locations all using the Diebold version
1.94w optical scan machine. Because the voting machine locations tend
to be urban, this represents about 81 percent of the New Hampshire
voters.
The video shows Harri Hursti testifying on Sept. 19 before the New
Hampshire legislature, attempting to explain significant vulnerabilities
requiring urgent mitigations; throughout his testimony, Silvestro
inserted his own comments, opinions, misstatements and speculations.
VOTING MACHINE CHECKUP
One area of disagreement between Hursti and Silvestro was the amount of
expertise needed to exploit the Diebold 1.94w optical scan system.
Silvestro claimed (in a strange contortion of reasoning) that he doesn't
hire very skilled programmers, implying that this makes New Hampshire
elections more secure.
Hursti pointed out that hiring programmers with a lack of knowledge is
generally not considered a security feature, and also that an average
high schooler can learn to exploit the system in two days to two weeks.
WE THINK IT DOESN'T TAKE THAT LONG
Black Box Voting purchased a Diebold optical scan with 1.94w firmware,
and chose a computer repair shop out of the phone book, took it in,
grabbed the first available technician. It took him less than 10 minutes
to zero in on the memory card as a point of critical vulnerability --
and oh my, did he point out some other intersting things!
NEW HAMPSHIRE HASN'T UPGRADED SYSTEM SECURITY
Silvestro tries to claim that the security problems have been fixed in
newer editions. Whether or not they have been, it's a moot point in New
Hampshire where the upgrade is not made unless the Ballot Law
Commission meets, and they have not met for ages.
Silvestro then points to extraordinary measures taken by other states
to enact special procedural safeguards, but of course none of those were
implemented in New Hampshire either, because the Ballot Law Commission
has not bothered to meet since March 2006.
IN FACT, NEW HAMPSHIRE HAS NOT IMPLEMENTED MITIGATIONS FOR KNOWN RISKS
Not only that, they have turned all the programming over to a sole
source private company, taking vote counting for 81 percent of New
Hampshire citizens out of the public domain.
LHS is not subject to public records requirements, as the government
is, at least, not in New Hampshire. The control over memory card contents
is absolute; when cards malfunction or get lost, LHS brings the
replacements.
CONTROL OVER THE "BRAINS" OF THE MACHINE: ACCESS TO THE CHIP
Since LHS maintains the machines, repairs the machines, and replaces
the machines -- often on Election Day -- when they malfunction, they have
intimate access to the chips, sockets, ports, communications devices
and other electronic components.
Silvestro stated that the chip has "read only memory" and cannot be
reprogrammed without frying it under ultraviolet light overnight.
Hursti never had a chance to examine the hardware, nor have most of the
recent university studies had access. But our friendly neighborhood
computer repair guy differed with Silvestro on the point of plug & play
reprogramming of the guts of the machine.
After I push the button to send this message out to the media and the
citizenry, I'll work on getting a short YouTube video of the Accuvote
checkup by our local computer repairman. And before you say, "But wait!
He's not a world class expert!" -- That's just the point.
Our local computer repairman may hit or miss on some of his analyses.
You'll all be able to try your hand at second guessing him as soon as
the next video is up. But if he hits even one of his ideas for how to
exploit the machine to steal votes, that's all it takes. From someone who
is not, certainly, a world class hacker or even a hacker at all.
I'll post the link to that in a follow up here:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/71200.html?1199744175 ,
and invite you techs to weigh in.
The We the People Foundation has filed this lawsuit in all 50 states to push for verifiable paper ballots in all elections http://www.wethepeoplefoundati.....-11-06.htm They deserve everyone’s support. We must immediately challenge this rigged Primary and demand a recount. If Ron Paul’s campaign staff doesn’t do it, as far as I’m concerned that would be indicative of plants on the staff.How could that be? Melinda Pillsbury has exposed the Cato Institute, a Libertarian Think Tank in Washington DC as being controlled by the Neocons- see her excellent article "The Enemy Within- Cato's Covert Agenda" at http://www.nolanchart.com/author18.html
Jim Condit of www.votefraud.org had poll watchers in at least some of the precincts. I talked with him yesterday, and will be in touch with him about anything they might have found out. If there were any discrepancies in those precincts that used paper ballots, he would have found them out. Also, if the result from the precincts counted via paper ballots differed noticably from those where the vote was counted by LHS associates using hackable Diebold Machines, that would also raise a red flag. Stay tuned folks, and while this gets sorted lets keep pushing full tilt for Dr. Paul. We have no choice at this point, he either gets elected, or we get the iron boot of tyranny stomping in our faces forever.
WHAT TO DO: Call Ron Paul's campaign office at 703-248-9115Â and demand that they officially demand a RECOUNT!! The Supreme Court has ruled that a constitutional election entails two things 1) That we have the right to cast a vote, and 2) We have the right to have that vote COUNTED accurately!Â
It is very evident from the information cited in this message that LHS Associates just rigged the New Hampshire primary. Every American who has contributed to the Ron Paul campaign has just been ROBBED along with the registered voters of New Hampshire including those in Sutton whose votes were not counted! Email this whole alert to Ron Paul via this contact form on their website http://www.ronpaul2008.com/contact/form
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-01-13 10:38:43
IN LIES WE TRUST:THE CIA, HOLLYWOOD AND BIOTERRORISMhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=159053218219104169&hl=en
A MUST Watch Video!!!
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-01-20 12:00:53
WILL THE REAL RON PAUL PLEASE STAND UP
Jim Condit Jr. of Citizens for a Fair Vote Count spent 12 hours of very hard work to put together the following 10 minute You Tube in an effort to communicate a very sobering message to Dr. Ron Paul that I am hoping in all sincerity that the good doctor will be able to truly hear and fully embrace before our Republic gets sucked down the tubes via election fraud which he is currently doing nothing to address.
Dr. Paul can't have it both ways. He can't claim to be a bonafide Champion of the Constitution if he's just going to pay lip service to defending it. We need his leadership RIGHT NOW in the face of the RAMPANT election fraud we're witnessing right now in this country. Its all spelled out, right here. Please join me in praying that Ron Paul will have the same level of strength that Dennis Kucinich and formerly unknown Republican Al Howard are showing us all right now in New Hampshire- for they are risking their LIVES in defense of our RIGHT to have our votes counted accurately.
As reported by Bev Harris, who is also risking HER life there on the ground in NH to monitor the recount, flagrant tampering has already occurred with numerous cardboard ballot boxes that were slashed open by black ops goons who are not surprisingly striking at the heart of our Republic, and the (criminal/traitor) Secretary of State of New Hampshire (William M. Gardner) is not even keeping the ballots locked up in a vault (!!!)
They're in an unsecured room inside the State Archives building at 71 S. Fruit St., Concord, New Hampshire where it would be all too easy for a Black Ops team to move in on them between now and tuesday morning when the recount resumes after the Martin Luther King monday holiday. If this pisses you off as much as it does me, please call the New Hampshire State Police at 603-271-3636 and tell them to do two things: 1) Arrest the Secretary of State, and 2) Guard that building with their lives. See Bev's field report from 1/17 at http://www.blackboxvoting.org
Its very important you forward this widely, Condit is asking hard questions here that Ron Paul, and all of us, must ponder because if we all don't work together NOW against this phony rigged, hacked election- we're just going to have another dictator installed on us like the last time. Its time to stop buying into the obvious ILLUSION that we're witnessing a bonafide "election" right now. Its time to call a spade, a spade because with rigged voting machines, NONE of our votes count- the election is being stolen by computer programmers and hacked voting machines that should never have been used.If we fail to do so, we'll be digging our own graves- but if we ACT, and ACT NOW, we just MIGHT save our country from its planned destruction, and snatch VICTORY from the jaws of DEFEAT. Ron Paul must stop fostering the illusion that we're witnessing a bonafide election. What we're seeing unfold here is an obvious SCAM, and he MUST blow the whistle! This is NOT some PR game, this is REALITY, and its NOT a drill:
"I lost my vote"..... lets hope RP listens along with us....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJAU3dXh-ao&NR=1
WHAT YOU CAN DO: Please call every state campaign office for Ron Paul plus his National Campaign office and ask them to urge Ron Paul to stop pretending we're witnessing a bonafide election when its so painfully obvious that we're not. Please ask him to stand up for all of us against this fraud. If you know anyone who knows him personally and who can deliver this message to him personally, please utilize those contacts immediately before its too late. You'll find all the numbers and email addresses of the campaign here: http://www.ronpaul2008.com
He must take the bull by the horns and face the situation head on, on National TV.
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-01-20 15:11:55
URGENT
SKIN THE FOX NEWS
http://skinthefox.com/news_001.htm
In 1996, Fox News began broadcasting extreme right propaganda labeled "fair and balanced" reporting.Fox "News" today is little more than an advertising arm of the current White House administration. With a clear intent : disseminate false information to support a government administration that came to power under questionable circumstances; maintain a government administration that remains in power through more questionable circumstances; and disseminate false and misleading information to the American People to support that current [and questionable] government administration.
We, the American People, will no longer tolerate or support advertising or political propaganda in the guise of "news." We will no longer tolerate or accept the brainwashing of America. We will no longer tolerate or support any sponsor who financially supports or contributes to Fox News' continued and mis-labeled "journalistic" practices.
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-01-29 08:17:59
N.H. Recount - Urgent Action Required
I was on the road from January 15-25th and fully expected the recount to be completed by the time I returned to Texas. On January 25, 2008, I spoke with a true American patriot named Eric, who has been on the ground since the beginning and has sacrificed a great deal for all of us. During our conversation, Eric informed me that the recount had been repeatedly delayed and there was a problem with the chain of custody with the ballots among other possible violations of the law. While listening to Eric as I was driving, had my rental vehicle been steam driven, I could have powered it the rest of the way home I was so incensed........
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd337.htm
Posted By: zoey
Date: 2008-03-16 20:53:31
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