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Published: Monday, September 15, 2008
Last modified: Monday, September 15, 2008
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Reader Comments:
Posted By: Jonathan
Date: 2008-09-15 16:21:12
The principles of the Party have not changed.
If we wish to clone Ron Paul's success, that's easy leave the Libertarian Party all together and run as a Republican which what Ron Paul has done. The moment he became a Republican, is the moment Ron had success. Remember as a Libertarian candidate for President, Ron Paul did not raise much money nor recieved many votes. This of course contradicts the premise of your whole article.
Posted By: Rick Fisk
Date: 2008-09-15 17:03:59
"If we wish to clone Ron Paul's success, that's easy leave the Libertarian Party all together and run as a Republican which what Ron Paul has done."
That is a silly statement. It's technically true, but it isn't all he's done. The LP most certainly has been slowly abandoning its principles and the most notable example of this was the effort to change the platform in 2006.
Posted By: Scott Semans
Date: 2008-09-16 10:16:03
I agree on the problem as stated, but your two solutions are mutually incompatible. I just emailed all natcom members, echoing recent blogs urging them to dump Barr. Three replied, two substantively, one sympathetically, but none positively. Natcom sees itself as responsible to the membership, but the idea of the LP being responsible to the movement, to representing its values, is absent. A political party's usefullness to a freedom movement is the ability to capture the public's brief attention span which occurs around election time. To aim at winning elections or improving percentages is to fundamentally misunderstand the role of an ideological party. This is where the so-called pragmatists have gone wrong, and the liberventionists have cheered them on because otherwise they would be unable to promote militarism within a body that is otherwise organically opposed to it. If the LP were going to elect a true libertarian to high office, it would have happened by now It hasn't, simply because the public is not even close to ready for it. Constitutionalism (as represented by Ron Paul) is a more saleable philosophy, and Constitutional conservatism (Bob Barr) is even closer to the political mainstream. (The difference in success level reflects Paul's high personal integrity and Barr's utter lack of it, not their ideologies). Thus you can not have both a principled platform and natcom, and a successful candidate for high office. The LP needs to abandon the illusion that success is measured in votes or margins of victory, and realize that it is but one component of a larger movement. Success for any movement means attracting writers, intellectuals, the media - the opinion makers. The voters, as always, will follow. Attracting egomaniacs and opportunistic politicians such as Barr and Root is neither measure of nor road to success, it's just one more dead end for the movement at large.
Posted By: Robert Butler
Date: 2008-09-16 10:32:23
I completely disagree with the thesis of this article. You don't beat a Fortune 500 company by trying to beat them at their own game. The problem with the Libertarian Party is not "purity". (A ridiculous term.) Purity is the result of inbreeding, not growth. And the LP can never grow if it only accepts purebred inbreeds. (And I don't mean to insult any one person, only point out the silliness of the term and the thoughts behind it.)The Ron Paul movement is a unique combination of people from all over the political spectrum.
The various components:
Paleo-conservative Republicans
Christian Coalition Republicans
Constitution Party
Libertarian Party
Leftists against Nafta and Cafta, etc. (anti-globalists)
People who just want change
Racists and White Supremacists (a small percentage) (don't tell me they don't exist in the movement, as ED of the Libertarian Party I met them many times, they think they are libertarian or paleorepublican.)
There is no possible way you include all of these people within one cohesive political party. A good indication of this is to ask Ron Paul supporters who their second choice is. They will answer: Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader, and even Barack Obama and John McCain.
I attended Ron Paul's famous press conference in Washington last week when he strongly recommended his supporters vote for an independent or minor party candidate. It was very interesting sitting in the small room with these folks and seeing how they related to each other.
There is a better way to elect candidates than political parties. With the Internet, the information age, etc. Political parties are really no longer necessary. It's possible to build movements, and temporary coalitions to elect people to office. A Ron Paul couldn't be elected by a party, but he could be elected by a coalition.
There are very recent examples of success without political parties. Jesse Ventura and Joe Lieberman are the results of temporary coalitions and movements. And in the near future, there will be many more candidates who win this way. The question is: Who will be the most important and best organized movement?
Top-down command and control doesn't work any more in the new information age. Grass-roots peer-to-peer networks are the future.
The Ron Paul movement is a huge peer-to-peer network. And look at how great a job it is doing!!! We need to keep this organizational structure intact.
By becoming a political party with rules, bylaws, committees, subcommittees, a party platform, you will complete burn out your energy and frustrate the people who are fueling your efforts.
For several years, I have been working on a way to harness the energy of a political peer-to-peer network. I have finally finished thinking about it and I'm ready to roll up my sleeves and go to work. I call it ICAN Independent Candidate Action Network. In just two weeks we have already 200 members and we're growing virally. We have 8 candidates on board including David Krikorian from Ohio. The website is [link edited for length]
For Liberty,
Robert Butler
Posted By: Robert Butler
Date: 2008-09-16 10:39:01
Just to clarify, I should have said I was ED of the Libertarian Party of Ohio. I didn't intend to imply the national party.
Thank you,
Robert Butler
Posted By: David S
Date: 2008-09-16 13:54:21
What success? As much as I love Ron Paul I have to admit his success was mainly to arouse a very dedicated, but small following. Maybe he got 6% of the Republican vote in the primaries. If you include the Democrat votes then RP probably got 3% of the total. That's not exactly earth-shaking. Ron Paul's pro-constitution message doesn't play well with the average American who wouldn't know the constitution if it bit him on the a--.
Most Americans either want free stuff from government or they want the military to beat the hell out of some other country. It doesn't matter what country or why, just so long as we're kicking butt somewhere.
Americans don't give a rat's petutti about the erosion of our constitutional rights or about the financial disaster we are heading for. They'd rather talk about Britney's underwear...or the lack thereof. That's the situation we are in.
Posted By: Rick Fisk
Date: 2008-09-16 22:00:44
"As much as I love Ron Paul I have to admit his success was mainly to arouse a very dedicated, but small following."
And getting elected 11 times in succession to Congress is not something you would call success? What IS success then?
Posted By: David S
Date: 2008-09-17 09:00:44
"And getting elected 11 times in succession to Congress is not something you would call success? What IS success then? "
All of that happened before the Ron Paul revolution. And there are many congressmen who have been elected over and over by their constituents. There is nothing remarkable about that.
If Ron Paul had won the Republican nomination that would be a great success. But unfortunately he didn't come close. If he had come close to winning that would have been a great success, but he didn't.
The fundamental problem is that the vast majority of Americans don't give a damn about constitutional government.
Posted By: Rick Fisk
Date: 2008-09-17 10:53:47
" All of that happened before the Ron Paul revolution. And there are many congressmen who have been elected over and over by their constituents."
No. So, his 11th term will begin *after* the primary run.
Second, it IS remarkable given his views and opposition to current GOP principles. He runs on the platform the Libertarian Party would do well to mimic.
Third, if it's not so remarkable, then why can't the LP get even one candidate elected to Congress on their ticket?
Fact is, they need to do this so they can begin amassing a track record. If they don't, then Bob Barr, Russ Verney and Mr. Redpath will have killed the party and the naysaying membership, like yourself, will have contributed to its demise.
Posted By: David S
Date: 2008-09-17 12:42:03
I've been a Libertarian for many years. I frequently vote straight party LP ticket. And I will likely do so again this year. But I am also a realist. If any of them get even 5% of the vote it will be a miracle. Bob Barr will be lucky to get 1%. The reason for that, as I said earlier is that Americans don't care about constitutional government. My disgust is not with the Libertarian party but with the American voters.
Posted By: Tony
Date: 2008-09-30 18:34:43
I do not think that all libertarians must agree to think exactly the same way. If I think the federal government should be reduced by about seventy percent, I'm not going to criticize or tell a fellow Libertarian their in the wrong party because they believe it should only be reduced by 50%. Maybe there will be a day when we will have to part company, but for now we are trying to go the same direction. As the Republicans continue to pursue a course of larger more socialized government they will turn many to the Libertarian Party. Fortunately unlike the old "principled" libertarians, these libertarians may actually set a course to win elections.