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Published: Friday, September 12, 2008
Last modified: Friday, September 12, 2008
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Reader Comments:
Posted By: Ralph Nader Cynthia Mckinney
Date: 2008-09-12 12:40:59
(Ron Paul & Ralph Nader)
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out.
(McKinney Gravel Kucinich Ventura Perot)
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out.
[msm lip gloss]
Posted By: Amy
Date: 2008-09-12 12:44:13
Please feel free to sign the petition to have Barr/Root removed from the nominee's spot. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/RemoveBobBar/index.html They are not worthy of it.
Posted By: R. Gomes
Date: 2008-09-12 12:53:42
I don't understand why Paul scattered his votes. It seems to me that a single non Dem / Rep with a lot of votes rather than 4 candidates with some votes would make a better statement. The only way to change what's going on is to knock these people out of office. I’ve read a lot of the comments to articles like this one. Almost all the people wanting Barr’s head seem to be pissed because he insulted their hero. I am a Paul supporter but he is no longer in the Presidential race. Even Dr. Paul has said that it’s not about an individual but about turning this country around.
Posted By: Cedric
Date: 2008-09-12 13:14:13
R. Gomes,
The simple answer is, lots of people don't want to vote Libertarian, so if they're not going to vote Libertarian, which would you rather... that they vote for another 3rd party, or McBama???
Change won't come by us unifying behind one party... especially if the party becomes as corrupt as the Libertarians have become recently! Change will only come when everyone stops voting for candidates with an R or D next to their name. If you're to the left, vote for McKinny/Nader, if you're a Libertarian, then vote for Barr (ack). If you're more religious, or you just can't stand the fact that Bob Barr turned out to be a schmuck, then vote for Chuck Baldwin. 60% of Americans wants third choice, all Ron Paul did was tell them that they DO have a choice. And even if the votes did get spread around 60% of the American population would crush McBama if they all voted for a random 3rd party candidate.
Posted By: David S
Date: 2008-09-12 13:28:40
So who are you going to vote for? Let's look at the reality of the situation. Barr/Root will be on the ballot. Its too late to replace them. Ron Paul will not be on the ballot and if you write him in it will not be counted in most states. So no one will ever see your vote. It will not even show up as a protest vote. It will be a totally wasted vote.
Your other options are;
Obama
McCain
Barr
Baldwin
Mckinney
Nader.
If you're fed up with the Ds and the Rs you can scratch the first two.
If you don't want a socialist you can scratch the last two.
That leaves Barr and Baldwin. I could vote for either of those two. I've been leaning Barr until the latest fiasco. As of this moment I could go either way. Personally I'd like to see all of us who wanted Paul, vote for one guy. If we're lucky he might get 1% of the vote. If we split up the vote between the two then each will probably get 1/2% of the vote... if we're lucky. In the big picture it probably doesn't matter much either way. We're either going to end up with a socialist or a neo-con war-monger.
The Alas Shrugged plot is starting to sound like the best possibility... the country is falling apart so just let it go and hope we can pick up the pieces afterwards. (BTW I don't support helping it fall apart as in Ayn Rand's famous novel)
Posted By: Free State Project
Date: 2008-09-12 13:55:08
Why does the Liberty Movement always implode?
Concentration is the key... www.freestateproject.org
Posted By: James R.
Date: 2008-09-12 19:09:15
As I stated earlier, I'll vote for Barr. Why? Because once the Redpath gang is unseated and Shane Corey re-registers as the Republican he is, the road will be paved for a Johnson or Ventura or Ruwart or Kwiatowski or another REAL libertarian ticket.
Posted By: Freddy
Date: 2008-09-12 22:02:16
this makes me want to buy gold and guns
Posted By: tjoseph
Date: 2008-09-13 06:53:05
Divide and conquer. The mainstream stategy planners might be immoral, but they're not idiots.
Ron Paul disappointed me with his sell out encouraging people to vote for the likes of Nader and McKinney: two people who represent everything opposed to the libertarian cause.
The liberty movement always faces setbacks when it becomes a personality cult. Such as was the case with a great man, Ron Paul. As much as I respect his philosophy of governance, I cannot support making it about him. Paul, himself, may not have done this, but too many in his campaign have.
Posted By: Anthony D.
Date: 2008-09-13 12:14:54
NIce try at an objective article...
"Smear campaign" against Mary Ruwart? No smear campaign is necessary against a candidate who tacitly accepts legalized child porn.
Purist lunacy at its finest here.
Posted By: Rick Fisk
Date: 2008-09-13 12:29:01
It was indeed a smear campaign. Fact is, nobody is harmed by the mere posession of an object. The people who like to claim that any criticism of the federal government's tactics in prosecuting these "crimes" cannot seem to make the distinction between real child abuse and the mere posession of images some cop, judge or social worker deems is "porn."
We can trot out enough prosecutions against parents who took innocent photos of their children in the bathtub to fill a trunk.
The real crime is the abuse. By targetting those who may (or may not) posess real images of abuse, the government is making it less likely that the real abusers will be caught.
That doesn't seem to concern the faux prudes who go around screaming "pedophile!" to anyone who notices that the government's tactics are unconstitutional.
These prudish, usually childless hysterics are also generally unaware that the biggest purveyors of child-porn are government employees.
Posted By: Tom Mathers
Date: 2008-09-13 17:51:28
These people cannot be serious. Barr is the candidate. He was selected at the convention. All this because he refused to share the dias with socialist, theocrats and anticapitalists. Paul is a fool not to back the Libertarians and tell his tribe to vote for Barr. Ours is the only philosophy in line with his hopes and dreams, which it appears he has lost sight of in his ego trip of a campaign..
Posted By: Rick Fisk
Date: 2008-09-13 18:01:54
"Ours is the only philosophy in line with his hopes and dreams"
Small ell. The LP has been systematically abandoning the NAP. Barr is not a libertarian and certainly Verney and Corey are not libertarians.
Posted By: Nickalis Tower
Date: 2008-09-13 18:38:52
Hi Rick Fisk,
From your article I learned that Barr was ex-CIA. Wasn't GHWB ex-CIA? I don't have anything against lawyers and lawmen and military men becoming President of our once-great country, but it seems those with the heavy hand are being put in the position of power by the king makers. I think we need to read this as a sign of its exact meaning: the king makers think you and I need a heavy hand in the position of the executive branch head.
With all the collectivist Executive Orders, with the gutting of the Bill of Rights (ref: Napolitano's 'Constitutional Chaos'), with the way the government feels it's perfectly okay to break its own laws 'enforcing' bogus ego-justice laws on the rest of us, I don't think there need be any further evidence than what you may have seen that reveals that Bob Barr has been put on a multi-year CIA assignment to implode the LP party. Once CIA, always CIA (isn't the Marine motto semper fi? I don't doubt the GOD boys take that one to heart).
Posted By: Rob
Date: 2008-09-13 19:47:02
This article settled the issue for me: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/hamilton4.html
I hope it helps you.
Posted By: George Dance
Date: 2008-09-14 17:04:49
Two articles in the Barr topic slamming him for "Snubgate"? Well, I think I'll have to move my own articles over here as well; give everyone a chance to read both sides.
In that light, I'd like to call attention to my articles on "Bob Barr's Real Record" (which paint a different light on Barr's actions in Congress than what's in your article). As well, I'll point out that Shane Cory's two offenses you mention were actually the same one: he sent out a press release calling for greater federal-state coordination in the battle against child porn. And what he (and other libertarians) objected to was not possession of porn, but Ms Ruwart's comments that libertarians must respect their preteen children's autonomy to determine their own sexual relationships.
Posted By: Michael Shanklin
Date: 2008-09-20 16:31:10
http://www.youtube.com/user/shanklinmike
I can't believe that Dr. Paul would associate himself with big government Nader and McKinney(Black Panther)! I just hope the libertarian message can still be heard through all this arguing! Barr 2008! Let's get the libertarians in the debate come 2012!
Posted By: Gabe N TX
Date: 2008-09-20 17:02:38
Now if only we can merge all third party's in to one to actually have a large enough vote to elect CHANGE. Ron Paul is the guy to bring us together.
Posted By: DJ
Date: 2008-10-03 19:43:48
Great article. The Barr apologists, as usual, are unmoved.
If getting three (reluctantly four) parties to agree on four pro-liberty precepts is not "true leadership", the one-third-party-to-rule-them-all exclusivity must be the "true freedom" message, simply 'cause freedom is only for people who vote (L). Sarcasm aside; it sounds that way, tjoseph.
"Divide and conquer." Indeed.
Fight single-handedly the status quo, by using their tactics, and alienating other potential allies? Must be hubris I detect from the Barr Campaign. Fact is, some people will NOT vote Libertarian. I'd be "dissapointed" a (L) would encourage, directly or indirectly, a vote for the Left/Right Paradigm; even condone it!
Sorry, that is wrong. Shunning people away from other so-called less desirable 3rd Party candidates, will only leave more votes left to apathy or the One Party. Personlly, I'd rather Socialists voted for Nader or McKinney then Obama.
No, I haven't decided; not a Socialist either. We'll see...