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Published: Sunday, July 27, 2008
Last modified: Tuesday, July 29, 2008
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Reader Comments:
Posted By: FormerLPMember
Date: 2008-07-27 14:22:28
There should be an eleventh question on the chart survey to distinguish if a person enjoys being lied to or is possibly too gullible to be a libertarian. No, I haven’t watched nor do I plan to watch any Bob Barr political ads, but none of the presidents listed in your review were libertarian or actually moved our government (or any other’s) toward liberty. Maybe in Oceania one could have a “soft spot” for Reagan after all he not only used Newspeak when preaching Libertarian Rhetoric with Statist Policies but must have had some sort of Kool-Aid to make you believe it. As far as the other cited politicians, Dr. No’s congressional record speaks for itself and I’ve not researched Goldwater’s. Even though I attend government indoctrination centers (aka public schools), my parents fortunately gave me the Red Pill early in my life.
Maybe the eleventh question should be: Which pill did you Take?
Posted By: Jean-Christophe Roux
Date: 2008-07-27 16:41:17
The video is more another sign that Bob Barr is running as a conservative. It's a complete betrayal of the libertarian principles. Ronald Reagan as libertarian icon... John Fitzgeral Kennedy as a libertarian president; this is ridiculous. Conservatives have their neo-cons; Libertarians have their neo-libertarians. Poor Libertarian Party.
Posted By: George Dance
Date: 2008-07-27 16:56:26
"No, I haven’t watched nor do I plan to watch any Bob Barr political ads ..." - I stopped reading at that point.
Posted By: Jean-Christophe Roux" - ditto.
Go write your anti-Barr screeds in your own columns, OK?
Posted By: Steve
Date: 2008-07-27 17:19:42
Sorry George, but Ronald Reagan dramatically expanded the federal government. He preached small and practiced big. Not to say he didn't have his good points but Ronald wasn't a small government president. J-C R has a valid point why is Bob Barr trying to connect the Libertarian Brand with a Big Government Republican?
Posted By: Scott Harmon
Date: 2008-07-27 20:25:27
George, I liked the video. I don't know if I'll vote for Barr or the LP, at this point, but I won't be voting for either of the two "major party" candidates, that's for damned sure.
Just a few points:
- Gotta like Paul, but, his inability to go negative and to reach out to the "mainstream" (as ugly as it is), did cost him votes.
- Even if Barr does not satisfy the "hard core" RP supporters, one should consider the playing field before dismissing Barr outright. The playing field is the American public, not Plato's cave. So, Barr used Reagan? Big deal, so did Paul. So, Barr's changed his positions? Big deal. Do we really want another politician who has heard the Golden Word from God, Texaco, or the European Union, a la Bush, and cannot change, period?
- I followed Paul's campaign very closely. A great number of people wanted him to be more negative toward the other candidates, and more specific (i.e., less philosophical) on the issues. Barr is doing that.
- The reality is this: anyone running for a Third Party candidacy has got to reach some common ground with the masses. Memories of Reagan touch one segment; memories of MLK touch another; and those of Ayn Rand another. Each of these symbols has problems, but each carries votes.
We shouldn't lower our ideals or standards, but I think we should be pragmatic about our goals for changing this electoral system. Barr may not be ideal, but he is certainly somewhere between the insanity of Obama and McCain.
Posted By: FormerLPMember
Date: 2008-07-27 21:16:52
Nevermind George, I now know your answer to the 11th question.
Posted By: blakmira
Date: 2008-07-28 15:30:21
"A great number of people wanted [Ron Paul] to be more negative toward the other candidates...Barr is doing that."
Oh, really? That's a good one.
I don't know any Ron Paul supporter who didn't admire Dr. Paul even more when he acted like the true statesman and gentleman that he is instead of joining in the mud-slinging with all the other jerk candidates. When you're right, you're right -- and he's always been right.
As far as Barr "going negative," he already IS negative. So perhaps you mean double negative, as in former CIA and current DEA supporter? There is nothing "awesome" about Barr!
Campaign for Liberty '08
Posted By: Commandroid
Date: 2008-07-28 21:38:02
Bob Barr understands something that many libertarian purists seem to stubbornly forget--to build a bigger Libertarian Party that can go up against the Rips and Dums, a candidate must draw the attention of the mainstream American voter. Barr understands that people like JFK and Reagan are a big draw for those voters. I thought the video was very inspiring. I hope the average American voter sees it. I could care less how many of the handful of libertarian purists see it.
Posted By: George Dance
Date: 2008-07-28 22:53:41
Steve: "J-C R has a valid point; why is Bob Barr trying to connect the Libertarian Brand with a Big Government Republican?"
Reagan was not an advocate of big government -- he had his inconsistencies (the war on drugs being the big one), but as you admit he always "preached small." I'd say the quotes are in there, first, because of their content; they're some of the most effective material in the piece; second, because Reagan is not only the most popular Republican president in general, but is an icon for the demographic being appealed to (the 80% or so of libertarian voters who normally vote Republican).
Scott & Commandroid: Thanks for your posts; I'm in essential agreement, and I'm glad you're seriously grappling with the 'purist' question. In a sense you're doing some of my work for me here; I've given up on it myself, since I don't see this as a problem of disgruntled Libertarian 'purists' at this point. It looks to me more like a campaign effort, of another party that's decided to go completely 'negative.'
Posted By: Jay Conna
Date: 2008-07-29 07:40:52
The references to Ayn Rand need to be balanced with some essential facts. Rand states in interviews that the Libertarians lifted her ideas without atribution and then distorted them by ignoring the base that justifies them. My observation of Libertarianism is that it has one principle for inclusion - my enemy's enemy is my friend. Anti-government in all forms is the coin of the Libertarian realm. This is not a moral stand I can respect.
In contrast, Rand rebuilt the foundations of philosophy with politics solidly based on ethics which in turn sits on a theory of concepts and reality. In effect, she has done for philosophy what Newton did for physics - grounding it. The good news is that Rand's philosophical innovations are a topic of serious scholarly study in dozens of top universities around the country and world now. There is a new force in play here, The Ayn Rand Center for Individual Rights in Washington, DC - www.AynRandCenter.org.
It may open your eyes to a more sane solution to our problems and to a home for those seriously interested in liberty as concieved by our founding fathers. This provides the intellectual foundation they lacked which in turn has led to our loss of so much freedom in 200 years.
Posted By: George Dance
Date: 2008-07-29 11:39:12
Undeniably the modern libertarian movement (beginning with Hospers' Libertarianism in 1971) "lifted" the non-initiation of force principle (NIF) from Ayn Rand. It's wrong to say that it did so 'without attribution' -- libertarians and Libertarians have been lavish in giving her credit. Rand is the most cited author in Hospers' book, for instance.
Given the advocacy, by current Objectivist think tanks like the Ayn Rand Institute, for pre-emptive war in Iraq, Iran, Syria, et al, I cannot help adding: Why shouldn't we lift NIF? You guys weren't using it, anyway.